Author Topic: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.  (Read 57750 times)

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Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2006, 11:59:41 »
Can anyone provdie details as to what PFT is like? Is it a lot of academics or more flying - or a heavy mix of both? Also, how do you get evaluated during primary flight training? Tests? Instructor 'report cards'? I'm curious to know.

Thanks.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2006, 14:05:58 »
PFT, what a great time  ;D

The first 2 weeks are purely academics (ground school).  You learn Piston Engineering, Aerodynamics, Meteorology, AOIs (Aircraft Operating Instructions), Instrumentation, Procedures and Flight Safety (I might miss something here...).  It's 8 hours of classroom time every day.  There is a prog test and a final test on every subject.  The average for the class is usualy 93-95%. 

After those 2 weeks, you hit the flight line.  You are evaluated on every single flight and you have to meet a certain standard in order to do the next flight.  If you don't meet the standard, you have to do an extra dual.  Obviously, you don't have as many as you want... I think you are alowed to have 20% of the total flight time of the course for Extra Flights (Re-tests and ED).  You also have 2 flight tests, the first beeing the Initial ClearHood Test (ICHT).  Once you passed that, you do your first solo.  The Final ClearHood Test is the last flight of the course and evaluates pretty much all you learned.  There is approx. 27 Flight Hours of which 4.5 are solo (those numbers might have changed since I've done the course)

Max

Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2006, 16:08:30 »
PFT, what a great time  ;D

The first 2 weeks are purely academics (ground school).  You learn Piston Engineering, Aerodynamics, Meteorology, AOIs (Aircraft Operating Instructions), Instrumentation, Procedures and Flight Safety (I might miss something here...).  It's 8 hours of classroom time every day.  There is a prog test and a final test on every subject.  The average for the class is usualy 93-95%. 

After those 2 weeks, you hit the flight line.  You are evaluated on every single flight and you have to meet a certain standard in order to do the next flight.  If you don't meet the standard, you have to do an extra dual.  Obviously, you don't have as many as you want... I think you are alowed to have 20% of the total flight time of the course for Extra Flights (Re-tests and ED).  You also have 2 flight tests, the first beeing the Initial ClearHood Test (ICHT).  Once you passed that, you do your first solo.  The Final ClearHood Test is the last flight of the course and evaluates pretty much all you learned.  There is approx. 27 Flight Hours of which 4.5 are solo (those numbers might have changed since I've done the course)

Max

Thanks Max.

So I take it PFT is 100% business then..no dickin around kinda deal - probably no time to anyways! With averages of 93-95%, sounds like when you're not in class, you're studying the material. Do many people flunk out at this stage or what?

I think i'd like the idea of being confined to learning and studying like that. Here at home, there are so many damn distractions at times and very little studying gets done unless i lock myself in  my room.

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2006, 16:20:22 »
Actually it's pretty easy to get those averages... If you work at it everynight.

I used to study 4 hrs a night during ground school, watch a little bit of TV, exercise every day, go out on the week ends and get a 99% average.  I have never heard of anyone failing the ground school. (you need 75% on most of the tests to pass and 85% and 90% on some of them)

During the flying phase, I'd study 4 hrs a night as well and chair fly a LOT, go in the plane if I wasn't flying during the day and practice procedures with a friend.  If you do what you are told to to during this phase, there isn't going to be a problem I think.  Sometimes, hard working people just won't make it.  You still need to have some kind of motor skills in order to succeed. Sometimes, people that should fail, pass and people that should pass, fail....

Max

Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2006, 16:39:29 »
Actually it's pretty easy to get those averages... If you work at it everynight.

I used to study 4 hrs a night during ground school, watch a little bit of TV, exercise every day, go out on the week ends and get a 99% average.  I have never heard of anyone failing the ground school. (you need 75% on most of the tests to pass and 85% and 90% on some of them)

During the flying phase, I'd study 4 hrs a night as well and chair fly a LOT, go in the plane if I wasn't flying during the day and practice procedures with a friend.  If you do what you are told to to during this phase, there isn't going to be a problem I think.  Sometimes, hard working people just won't make it.  You still need to have some kind of motor skills in order to succeed. Sometimes, people that should fail, pass and people that should pass, fail....

Max

Thanks again Max,

I guess when you're getting paid to study and learn new material, it makes it a lot easier to buckle down. If only I got paid at civy univiversity right now!! Not to mention, when you actually ENJOY what you're studying and learning about - that makes things whole lot easier as well.

I imagine Moose Jaw and any proceeding flying courses after that follow the same trend then. Ground school, tests, flying, tests etc etc.

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2006, 16:44:23 »
Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2006, 16:54:13 »
Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

Yeah I can well imagine, as this is basically the stage which decides what you'll be flying for the rest of your career. So are you currently doing OJT somewhere? What do they have you doing?

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2006, 17:14:52 »
I'm at 402 Squadron in Winnipeg (they fly the Dash 8).  I work the OPS desk as most of the pilot OJTs.  I get to fly a lot (well, as much as I want) and go to various airshows (going to Abbotsford Airshow this weekend).  I will soon be doing AMT, SERE and Sea Survival as well as a Basic Electronic Warfare Course I requested to do.

Max

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2006, 17:29:43 »
I'm at 402 Squadron in Winnipeg (they fly the Dash 8).  I work the OPS desk as most of the pilot OJTs.  I get to fly a lot (well, as much as I want) and go to various airshows (going to Abbotsford Airshow this weekend).  I will soon be doing AMT, SERE and Sea Survival as well as a Basic Electronic Warfare Course I requested to do.

Max

Right on. That's great you get to fly a lot.

So do you actually live on the base or what? I mean, I most likely will not have a family to worry about at the time, so would not require a house to live in. I haven't got many answers regarding this. Are there dorm-like quarters or what? - I really have no idea what to expect when it comes to that aspect of lifestyle during OJT. Also, are living quarters paid for? What about food and what not? This is one area of 'the process' i'm completely ignorant about.

Offline Inch

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2006, 17:34:03 »
Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

You actually do this for 8 weeks or so.

You do 3 weeks of AOI, aerodynamics and met classes, then you do 5 cockpit trainers in the Harvard Simulators as well as egress training and a few more classes. Then week 5 you hit the flight line for half day flying and half day ground school for 8 weeks. I think in total we did 16 weeks of ground school, quite a bit but reasonable when you consider that you go from know nothing about instrument flying to knowing enough to get an instrument rating.

As for the intensity, this varies greatly from person to person based on your ability to retain what you've learned as well as what your level of knowledge was before hand. I didn't find it all that bad at all after the first 3 weeks because of my Aviation College background and my civilian instrument rating. So while some guys would come back from the glass palace (Col OB Complex, the home of 2CFFTS) and then study the night away, I was free most nights unless we had a test the next day or I was helping out one of the guys.

Right on. That's great you get to fly a lot.

So do you actually live on the base or what? I mean, I most likely will not have a family to worry about at the time, so would not require a house to live in. I haven't got many answers regarding this. Are there dorm-like quarters or what? - I really have no idea what to expect when it comes to that aspect of lifestyle during OJT. Also, are living quarters paid for? What about food and what not? This is one area of 'the process' i'm completely ignorant about.

Have a read through the recruiting FAQ, that's all been answered before in great detail.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2006, 17:39:48 »
I'll answer his questions anyways ;)

I chose to live in the PMQs because I have a wife.  You can choose to live in the Quarters on the base and eat at the Officer's mess.  I head it is VERY expensive here.  You are given a salary (3200$ a month for a DEO I think) and you have to pay taxes, quarters, rations, everything...  The Quarters are basically a room and a washroom.  I don't know much about them since I havent been in one yet..

Max

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2006, 18:30:49 »
I'll answer his questions anyways ;)

I chose to live in the PMQs because I have a wife.  You can choose to live in the Quarters on the base and eat at the Officer's mess.  I head it is VERY expensive here.  You are given a salary (3200$ a month for a DEO I think) and you have to pay taxes, quarters, rations, everything...  The Quarters are basically a room and a washroom.  I don't know much about them since I havent been in one yet..

Max

They're quite good, in fact, they were the best I've ever been in during my 7 years in the CF. Quarters will cost you around $200 a month and rations are probably around $350 a month these days. From my mid-Jun 2003 pay statement I was paying $217 for quarters and $302 for rations.
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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2006, 19:04:24 »
I heard 450 for quarters and 500 for food as of july 2006...  VERY expensive (more than a Q in my opinion)

Max

Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2006, 20:03:36 »
Could someone explain to me what exactly is included in a guys 'rations'? Or dare I ask? ;D

Offline SHELLDRAKE!!

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2006, 20:07:13 »
For officers, mostly caviar and chateau briand
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Offline Magravan

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2006, 20:08:29 »
For officers, mostly caviar and chateau briand

I  wonder if it is too late to change to NCM?  >:D
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2006, 20:13:35 »
rations is 3 meals a day basically :)

I heard it's good enough here!

Max

Offline Moody

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2006, 21:13:31 »
I heard 450 for quarters and 500 for food as of july 2006...  VERY expensive (more than a Q in my opinion)

Max

Hmmm. That is certainly tight for those who got in under CEOTP. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't they making $2400/month before taxes until they are MOC qualified?

J glad to see you found the site (goodro from aviation.ca) you are in good hands now! The gentlemen that are taking the time to answer your questions were a tremendous help to me when I was going through the process. Keep diggin' - it's good info for the other wannabe's out there who are doing their research. Some of the questions you are asking are not easily answered while you are in the recruiting phase...

good luck! and good on you for doing your research.

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2006, 21:31:28 »
that's only in YWG though...  Charges vary from place to place...

Max

Offline Inch

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2006, 22:44:15 »
I heard 450 for quarters and 500 for food as of july 2006...  VERY expensive (more than a Q in my opinion)

Max

You heard?

That's ludicrous, prices doubling in 3 years? BS.

Stick to the facts Max. Not to shoot you down since you are helpful, but if you haven't been there, then don't be regurgitating what you "heard". My experience in the training system was that it was full of rumours, most of which were third or fourth hand, so "my buddy's friend's brother that went through Moose Jaw said..." is probably not even remotely true so don't even bring it up.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2006, 23:21:44 »
Yeah I know what you mean....  Heard meaning my best friend told me (he lives in the shaks right now).


Max

Offline Bo

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2006, 00:11:26 »
I was staying in single quarters in Kingston a few months ago.

Single Quarters (room+shared bathroom): $240/month
Suites (2 floors+fridge+bathroom): $360/month

Rations (3 meals/day, all you could eat): $400/month

I visited some buddies in Victoria and they have absolutely incredible quarters! Overlooking the ocean and mountains, beautiful!
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Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #72 on: August 09, 2006, 09:23:56 »
I was staying in single quarters in Kingston a few months ago.

Single Quarters (room+shared bathroom): $240/month
Suites (2 floors+fridge+bathroom): $360/month

Rations (3 meals/day, all you could eat): $400/month

I visited some buddies in Victoria and they have absolutely incredible quarters! Overlooking the ocean and mountains, beautiful!

That sounds like a pretty reasonable deal because I eat A LOT! Just ask my mum.

On the same subject, but not related to OJT, what are the accomidations like during the various courses like BOTC, SLT, PFT etc? Sort of similar or more group oriented?

« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 15:36:08 by J_Muir »

Offline J_Muir

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #73 on: August 09, 2006, 15:39:25 »
Do pilot candidates also have to complete IAP? There's mention of BOTC everywhere, but not IAP so I'm wondering what the story is there.

*EDIT* - Found my anwser!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 15:44:48 by J_Muir »

Offline Moody

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Re: Becoming a Pilot in the CF.
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2006, 13:30:45 »
A just curious question and this may be a hijack but - I was wondering if anybody knows how many applicants are receiving an offer for Pilot but are going on PAT right now because of the push to enlist recruits in such a short period of time and the courses in St.Jean filling up. Or is this only going to start taking place in the fall? I understand they want to shorten recruiting times to one week. Should be interesting given that Aircrew alone is one week nevermind the medical, PT test, interview, ERC, CFAT, vision test, blood work etc...

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 13:37:37 by MikeG »