Author Topic: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION  (Read 42794 times)

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Offline A

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PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« on: August 13, 2006, 08:40:59 »
I would like to build a pace stick however I do not have the required metal parts. I may also build a gift drill cane for a departing CF member. Could someone post the address to a supplier of the harware.
Thanks in advance

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2006, 09:07:43 »
I would like to build a pace stick however I do not have the required metal parts. I may also build a gift drill cane for a departing CF member. Could someone post the address to a supplier of the harware.
Thanks in advance

Try William Scully Limited in Montréal, Québec. (http://www.williamscully.ca/)
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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2006, 17:42:16 »
William Scully only supplies the complete racing style pace stick. Thanks anyway

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2006, 17:45:50 »
They take a handle of a wood shovel and put it on a lathe.  They then put the the bottom half of a 50 cal on the one end and 7.62 on the bottom.
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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2006, 18:06:33 »
They take a handle of a wood shovel and put it on a lathe.  They then put the the bottom half of a 50 cal on the one end and 7.62 on the bottom.

Ummm....no.

I knew the Armour School Carpenter.....they bought broomsticks by the dozen, hacked them in half and tapered them on the lathe.

20mm on top...  .50 on bottom with bullet on the tip. Now they use a brass slug squared off    ;)

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Offline WarmAndVertical

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 18:39:44 »
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away

"It's bad policy to speculate on what you'll do if a plan fails when you're trying to make a plan work." ...Condi Rice (and me, on the next TEWT I attend!!!)

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2006, 18:44:58 »
www.pennys.ca

Be careful when dealing with them.  They kept me waiting forever then finally told me they couldn't help me.

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2006, 20:45:07 »
I've had a number of bad experiences with them also. Caveat Emptor.
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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2006, 21:26:51 »
You could be right Recce.  I may have gotten my calibers mixed up.  I'll check tomorrow.
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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2006, 21:33:50 »
Have dealt with Myles Penny for some 12 years.
The man deals with imports from India & Pakistan..... so he is stuck waiting for things as well... same as Scully's.  All in all, Penny's does a good job of providing you with quality products from 2nd and 3rd world countries... and takes care of the hasstles of dealing with those same said countries.
Chimo!

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2006, 23:22:09 »
One cane that is rather hard to come by and is a Regimental tradition in my old Reserve unit is the useage of a Irish Black Cherry cane as a drill cane for the RSM and SSMs.

I'm not sure that they are using them anymore. They were passed along from Germany to the reserve unit a ways back...

Regards
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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 11:01:21 »
I've got a Pace stick here. This is a pic of the maker' hardware. Its from PATHFINDER in Oakville. Still in beauty shape.
email me if you want a look at it or more detailed pics.
Cheers
   

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2006, 11:07:21 »
This is a good topic,

As I have been looking for harsware myself, to make pace sticks.

Does Pathfinder sell the raw hardware as well?

dileas

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 18:57:53 »
Do you have any contact information for Pathfinder in Oakville?

Offline geo

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Re: PACE STICK AND DRILL CANE CONSTRUCTION
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2006, 19:14:07 »
Must say that the only cane I enjoyed was one made out of bambo. Sooo light, so easy to carry - tucked into the armpit.
Silver capped and tipped.  it now has a couple of long collars engraved with the names of all my predecessors (and successors)..... but the cane dates back to the late 20s and has started to show some splits... will have to be retired I guess.
Chimo!

Offline Cadet sgt_jennings

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Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2007, 23:57:04 »
I need to know how to make a very nice looking on so i can give in to my RSM For her birth day. Any info would b great!!!


Edited by Vern ro make the topic title accurately reflective of the info sought.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 00:01:36 by ArmyVern »

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Who knows how to pace either a drill cane or pace stick
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2007, 23:59:46 »
I think you need to modify your topic title to read "make a drill cane or pace stick," else you're going to get a whole bunch of answers telling you how to use them.

Vern

Edited ... I'll modify it.
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Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Who knows how to pace either a drill cane or pace stick
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2007, 00:00:58 »
How much wood working experience do you have?

Do you have a lathe - or access to one?

When's the birthday?
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2007, 12:35:27 »
I my shop we regularly manufacture drill canes for the instructors at the school.If you need any pointers,just ask.
Depending on how complex,materials available and skill level,it can become a pretty complex procedure(you require basic woodworking skills and minor soldering and metal working skills).
Also,your gonna want to make two,because once the first is finished,your not going to want to give it away.(my biggest problem!)
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in non-productive duties is of direct assistance to the enemy.

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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2007, 12:50:13 »
...
Also,your gonna want to make two,because once the first is finished,your not going to want to give it away.(my biggest problem!)

Good point!

I'm glad you're here - as I was thinking this through, things like dimensions, etcetera came to mind.

I make custom furniture (I've turned walking sticks of various kinds, and a couple of "presentation" drill canes, but haven't done an "official" drill canes) - and I'd be more than willing to assist you talk this fellow through the process - between the two of us (and perhaps others), we might be able to get him through it (depending upon his skill level, as you pointed out).

Edit to change "pace stick" to "drill cane" - I've NEVER made a pace stick - don't know what I was thinking when I typed that.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 16:12:46 by Roy Harding »
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2007, 13:11:06 »
Dimensions I can post tomorrow once I have a look at my cheat sheet at work.
An alternative to the 20mm casing we have used in the past,as well if the "cap" is to be engraved is a yellow brass cap turned on a lathe with a slightly rounded mushroom style head.Unless you have the skill set or know somebody(AKA Mat tech)to do this,the 20mm is the easiest option.Even by going the 20mm route,there is still a little bit of hand tools and basic skill required(using a hacksaw to rough cut the casing,filing to finished length,fitting the cap to the cane and the final polishing of the cap).
If your ever in Wx,you can see one of the more complex canes that our shop has made(not myself) for the base RSM.We call it the "pimp stick".We had to mount a hollow brass Buffalo head as the cap to the cane.That monstrosity had to be brazed to a hand made plate,which in turn had to brazed to a cap,fitted to the cane,then filled to give it the proper weight and feel.Excellent craftmanship,but man it's ugly!
"It is war that shapes peace,and armament that shapes war."-Thomas Fuller

Ref: B-GL-314-008/AM-002
Chapter 6, Section 4, Para 3
The only reason for the existence of a Maintenance Platoon or
Company is the recovery and repair of equipment; thus any defensive
scheme which ties up a large number of technicians for long periods
in non-productive duties is of direct assistance to the enemy.

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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2007, 13:18:02 »
Can't see me in Wx any time soon (I spent a significant portion of my life there prior to retiring!), as I'm now located in Terrace, BC - bit of a drive.  But if you've got pictures I'd be interested in the "Pimp Stick".

Hell - maybe I'll dust off the lathe (I rarely use it, except to match existing spindles and so on - I use a pantograph) and have a go at it just for the practice.  Probably not for a while, though - I'm in the midst of constructing a new shop.
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2007, 13:25:30 »
An interesting topic indeed.  A new pace stick is on my "to-do" list for a rainy weekend this fall.  I have already acquired a very nice piece of red oak for it.

However, rather than rip the guts out of an old stick to build the new one, does anyone know a supplier of the "shiny bits" need for a pace stick?
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2007, 13:39:39 »
I have seen many RSMs canes & pace-sticks.  I have carried many canes & pace-sticks.
One of the biggest problems I have found with most is the weight.  What is nice VS what is practical will depend on who you are talking to.  If it's a presentation piece or one that will only be brought out once in a blue moon then oak & "pimp" hardware is all find and good BUT, if you're tooting around with one on a regular basis, then pine or Bamboo is the best.

Carried a bamboo cane that dated back to the 1920s.  Silver head & tip + silver sleeves engraved with past RSMs & their terms in office.  It was a real beaut.  Even with all the silver it was easy to carry on for a couple of hours.  (did have to have the head hammered out a couple of times - cane's NOT mine :))
Chimo!

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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2007, 14:08:34 »
I've had and used a pine stick.  Pine is a softwood and therefore bruises easily.  For something similar, and of a lower density than oak, you could use maple or ash.  If you have some quartersawn tamarack, the grain patterns can be quite striking if finished with a light transparent stain.  But tamarack is a species of pine and is a softwood (but not as soft as ).

Bamboo is, technically, a grass.
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2007, 14:17:12 »
True, bamboo is a grass.  However, for a cane of office, Bamboo should suffice.  The silver pommel and tips protected the cane from most dings.... note that in 2001, when I handed over same said bamboo cane (2001 - 1929 = 72 yrs old) it still looked good.

With respect to a pace stick, it is a training aid and should be used.  It is not a ceremonial item like the cane.  It should be used for instruction and then put away.  As such, Pine or maple are both good woods for said use.
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2007, 14:32:11 »
The "pimp stick" we made was only carried once on the BRSM's change of command parade as a picture piece.It lives in a glass case in HQ till it is needed for another parade.
I agree about the wood selection.We use maple for almost all of the canes we make unless the person supplies us with the wood.I personally like the look of the grain after a couple of coats of stock sheen is on it.
As far as the shiny bits,the 20 mm and .50 cal casing is the easiest to acquire.We just call up ammo and they send them up.We also custom build allot of our hardware dependent on wether or not it needs to be engraved,availability of 20 mm etc.
At the tip,what does everyone prefer? We machine a steel point and fit it to the 50 casing,which I thinks looks much better than the standard blunt tip.On occasion,we've also fitted an actual projectile on the end as well(allot of us reload as a hobby).
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Ref: B-GL-314-008/AM-002
Chapter 6, Section 4, Para 3
The only reason for the existence of a Maintenance Platoon or
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2007, 15:25:23 »
Hardwood, varnish finish, total length 91.25 cm. 3.25 cm  diameter at the top, tapering to 2cm at the bottom, brass metal ferrule at the top 11.25 cm in length, brass metal ferrule at the bottom 6.75 cm in length.

The length is formal, IIRC, the metal ferrule lengths and styles are based on unit custom. Often the top ferrule also sports an ORs cap badge.

Save a lot of trouble and cost. Go to the hardware store. Buy a maple or hickory mop handle and turn that down. You'll know it's straight and dry. If it's for the armoured guys, grain is immaterial. It'll be finished black anyway. Put it on the lathe and taper it to length. This is also a good time to sand and finish with something like a french polish

Here's the legal disclaimer:
DO NOT USE LIVE AMMO FOR THIS!!!!

For hardware, use a .50 for one end and a 20 mm for the top cap. Use a pipe or tube cutter to separate the casings at the desired length.

For the .50 end, if you have the bullet or a turned plug for the end, drill a pilot hole in the centre of the base and insert a double ended screw stud. Insert the bullet into the mouth of the casing and silversolder it in place. Put the whole thing over the end of the cane and screw it in.

For the large end, drill out the primer hole in the 20mm (make sure the things been fired!  ;) ). Put the case over the end of the cane and screw a brass wood screw through the primer hole into the cane.

Polish up the whole thing, give it a good coat of paste wax, and your done.
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2007, 16:20:56 »
I like the mop handle idea - hadn't thought of that myself.  Many will also be made of ash - as you point out if it's for an armoured fellow, it's going to be black anyway.

Black Walnut makes a beautiful walking stick - but it's mucho $$.

As someone above pointed out, pine and other softwoods are not as durable as the hardwoods - if this is a presentation piece that will be mounted on a wall somewhere, the softwoods are fine.  If it's to be a "working" cane, I'd stick with a hardwood - maple, hickory.

Someone asked about the hardware for a pace stick - gun plumber can straighten me out here, but I'd use a brass knife hinge for the pivot point, and custom make the "protractor" part from brass.
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2007, 21:06:42 »
not to make a fine point but I think the use of bamboo is actualy ratan .

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2007, 22:39:28 »
not to make a fine point but I think the use of bamboo is actualy ratan .

I'm not sure what you're driving at here.  Bamboo is, in fact, a grass (it's hollow).  "Ratan" is a generic name for a number of plants, sometimes including bamboo.  The reference to ratan usually (but not always) refers to a "switich", used for punishment - sometimes made of bamboo, sometimes made of other things - in North America, such a "swtich" is usually made of whatever is handy - sometimes hickory (my *** still remembers it - even though my Mother never heard of "ratan").

Rattan also refers to a style of furniture - notably "peacock" type bamboo chairs.  Rattan is NOT a "style" of furniture - but the word has been co-opted to mean that over the years - so perhaps, in the spirit of the English language, it IS a "style" of furniture.

You may hear of "ratan" furniture in the Ikea catalogues of the world - they are usually referring to bamboo. 

BTW - "ratan" is also sometimes spelled "rattan" - either way works.

Care to elaborate?

« Last Edit: August 22, 2007, 22:42:30 by Roy Harding »
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2007, 23:24:25 »
did not wish to create any controversy on this subject

rattan is a type of palm native to jungle areas it is solid not hollow like bamboo can grow to several hundred feet in length the outer layer is removed for use in caning chairs etc. the stock is used in furniture making etc.

google images of rattan to see it being harvested etc.


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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2007, 23:53:03 »
I disagree with your definition - but it's not worth arguing over here - feel free to PM me if you want to pursue it.

Suffice to say - bamboo (or rattan) can make a dandy walking stick/pace stick.

Roy




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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2007, 00:07:28 »
I think he is referring to the Officers' "Ratan" cane.

M. O"leary may offer some advice on that.

dileas

tess
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2007, 00:11:14 »
I think he is referring to the Officers' "Ratan" cane.

M. O"leary may offer some advice on that.

dileas

tess


What're you saying - Mr. O'Leary is into "caning" his subordinates?

I don't believe it for a minute - on the other hand - reviewing some of his posts ....
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2007, 00:22:51 »
obviously,

You have not gone to the MODERATORS fun weekend.

Oh,It will come...

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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2007, 00:30:24 »
What're you saying - Mr. O'Leary is into "caning" his subordinates?

If they were subordinate, they wouldn't need the cane.

Now put the lotion in the basket.

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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2007, 00:31:31 »
Oh!  It hurts so good!

All that - and definitions, aside - making a drill cane or walking stick is not a "skill free" endeavor.

Whatever material one chooses to use, that material needs attention to its properties and propensities - a warped and/or twisted drill cane is not the desired end-state.

Frankly - I think following recceguy's advice is the best way to go.


Roy
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2007, 08:35:28 »
Roy,
while I am 100% in agreement with you that bamboo makes a dandy cane / walking stick, I don't think it would cut it, over time, as a real pace stick... Light as heck, it would make a dandy pacestick for drill competitions - just not suitable for a DS at a recruit school.
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Re: Who knows how to make either a drill cane or pace stick??
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2007, 08:50:57 »
I saw a beauty turned down from a hickory shovel handle, about $6.00 at Peavey Mart.  The grain really popped out, and almost bullet proof.
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