Author Topic: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]  (Read 173292 times)

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Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2009, 21:56:48 »
More than likely that our DIN site sucks and really nothing interesting there.  The army / air force sites seem to be updated more on a regular basis.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2009, 22:00:52 »
The Navy has a hate on for zipper boots...

There is a DIN site for the N.I.C.E project, I was just looking at the other day, I was thanking my lucky stars that I will never have to wear that great looking hat.  I think Aviator is on to something regarding sailors searching for information.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2009, 09:42:33 »
New here.

Question while dragging this up from the depths...anyone know where to find out any info about the N.I.C.E. project?  Stupid name I know.  I have seen the rain suit (jacket) and that's about it.  I have heard about the new NCDs with perma-crease cause ya know we have to have creases. 

Army has an entire website on "Cloth the Soldier", sailors can't find anything on our new uniforms.  But yesterday I did find in a dress committee minutes that they did vote themselves new cardigans to wear around the office but stomped the old zippered boots right out of existence again.

Another thread on the N.I.C.E project already (that this thread should probably just be merged with) ...

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/index.php?topic=79706.0

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Offline Snakedoc

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2009, 16:44:51 »
I just read the other thread... unisex underwear  :o

Just to be clear with the MARGEN, if a t-shirt is worn then it must be a black t-shirt, but a t-shirt is still not necessarily necessary, correct?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 16:55:08 by Snakedoc »

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2009, 17:00:16 »
With NCDs wearing the T shirt is optional.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2009, 17:08:21 »
I just read the other thread... unisex underwear  :o

Just to be clear with the MARGEN, if a t-shirt is worn then it must be a black t-shirt, but a t-shirt is still not necessarily necessary, correct?

So?  When you have to take off your shirt when you are doing some 'heavy' work, and you are not close to your room and dresser drawer, what are you going to wear?
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2009, 17:15:37 »
Depending on the ship, you may not be allowed to go down to a t shirt....
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2009, 17:27:07 »
T-shirts are optional since they aren't issued yet other than to boarding team and if a sailor is doing heavy work, the NCD shirt stays on.  The jacket comes off but that is usually it.

Offline Snakedoc

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2009, 13:14:12 »
Yes I'm aware going down to t-shirt only is not permitted...at least I've never seen it authorized on any ship I've been on and it's technically not an order of dress.  I just wanted to make sure t-shirts under NCD shirts were still considered optional as the MARGEN was not too clear.  Thanks!

Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2009, 15:44:27 »
I see it as being optional.  I have never seen anything on we have to wear a tshirt.  I have yet to be issued one other than the speed greys from Cornwallis.

Offline PingTech

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2009, 23:13:38 »
IMHO, if you're a sailor in a purple trade (cook/medic/clerk/etc) posted to a land or air unit, wear cadpat.  If you're a hard sea trade, wear those comfy hull tech pj's at sea and a pusser set of NCD's alongside.  Sailors should look like sailors..not like a condiment. ;D
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Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2009, 17:05:52 »
Agree on the coveralls and zippered boots but of course ya can't have zippers, it takes away from the money allocated for cardigan sweaters.

Offline gwp

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2009, 15:56:44 »
IMHO, if you're a sailor in a purple trade (cook/medic/clerk/etc) posted to a land or air unit, wear cadpat.  If you're a hard sea trade, wear those comfy hull tech pj's at sea and a pusser set of NCD's alongside.  Sailors should look like sailors..not like a condiment. ;D
Your right, but you don't take it far enough.  The Navy's point of view is "Sailors don't wear CADPAT" unless they are working in the field.  Sailors posted to land or air units in office, classroom training environments etc. dress as sailors. 

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2009, 16:00:10 »
Your right, but you don't take it far enough.  The Navy's point of view is "Sailors don't wear CADPAT" unless they are working in the field.  Sailors posted to land or air units in office, classroom training environments etc. dress as sailors.

Negative they wear the dress of the day of the unit they are posted to.

My unit has a PO as a CC and she wears our dress of the day, CADPAT.
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Offline Snakedoc

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2009, 16:35:30 »
Though I seem to remember hearing about a directive somewhere that Navy pers working on Army bases shall wear CADPAT (can someone clarify?), just going strictly on the NFLD Sappers comment that navy pers wear the dress of the day of the unit, isn't dress of the day promulgated by order of dress?

Ie. If dress of the day is No.5's, for army pers this would be CADPAT whereas the Navy equivalent would be NCD's?

Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2009, 16:55:14 »
Your right, but you don't take it far enough.  The Navy's point of view is "Sailors don't wear CADPAT" unless they are working in the field.  Sailors posted to land or air units in office, classroom training environments etc. dress as sailors.

Not necessarily only in the field.  If the unit is to wear CADPAT as dress of the day then the sailors will wear CADPAT with the element color nametag and slipons.  Sailors who are ashore in Halifax and Esquimalt at Navy shore positions continue to wear Naval dress.

Online FSTO

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2009, 17:01:54 »
Not necessarily only in the field.  If the unit is to wear CADPAT as dress of the day then the sailors will wear CADPAT with the element color nametag and slipons.  Sailors who are ashore in Halifax and Esquimalt at Navy shore positions continue to wear Naval dress.

Purple trades wear the dress of the day of the element they are working for. Hard Sea trades will only wear Cadpat if they are sent on an operation such as A-stan (like the clearance divers)

Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2009, 18:27:39 »
Personal experience here and I still have the leftovers from my posting as a hard sea trade to a inland posting.  CADPAT as dress of the day.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2009, 19:05:32 »
Does that mean that Army/AF types have to wear NCD's while working in Halifax/Esquimalt?

Obviously they don't. 

Offline gwp

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2009, 21:13:19 »
Though I seem to remember hearing about a directive somewhere that Navy pers working on Army bases shall wear CADPAT (can someone clarify?), just going strictly on the NFLD Sappers comment that navy pers wear the dress of the day of the unit, isn't dress of the day promulgated by order of dress?

Ie. If dress of the day is No.5's, for army pers this would be CADPAT whereas the Navy equivalent would be NCD's?
Exactly.  There is no authority to issue Maritime Command Personnel Reg or Res with CADPAT except if there is an operational requirement.  I.E. crawling in the mud.

If you doubt this.  Take it up with the Command or the Formation CPOs.  The response will be "Sailors don't wear CADPAT"

The following two pieces of the discussion may be useful.

Quote
Subject: ISSUE OF CADPAT TO NAVAL PERSONNEL
Sir:
The Navy does not want their personnel wearing CADPAT, just for the sake of wearing it. Obviously, if a Navy member is deployed, or employed in field work, where they are down in the dirt, crawling around on their bellies, or requires the camouflage elements of the kit, then it's required. For instruction duty in the field, on the range, etc, it is not required...

CPO1
-------------------------------------------------------------
Good afternoon:

A short time back, the issue of the wearing of CADPAT as a field dress for sailors (PLQ/BRT/BOTC staff) and which sailors have the authority to wear CADPAT, when, where and under which circumstances.
The excuse of uniformity in dress [everyone being in CADPAT], the soldier first training concept etc, I see as nothing more than an ill-conceived attempt for one to disguise the fact that the person wishes to appear different than those around them (the other sailors) or the person blatantly does not wish to take the time and effort to maintain their DEU (Naval uniform).The type of uniform a person wears does not assist or detract from the training task at hand. More importantly having staff members in different DEU would clearly demonstrates to our newly recruited candidates that personnel in all three elements are capable, willing and able to execute the same duties, responsibilities and training, thereby enforcing a sense of unity, equality, commonality and unified capability of all members of the CF regardless of element affiliation.

I see absolutely no reason for sailors to be in CADPAT when in garrison. To that end NOTC VENTURE has established the fol policy.

203: DRESS AND DEPORTMENT
References: A. A-AD-265 CF Dress Instructions
B. VENTURE Standing Orders

The VENTURE dress of the day is designated as:
a. Petty Officer Second Class / Sergeant and above shall wear the DEU order  of dress; and
b. Master Seaman / Master Corporal and below shall wear Operational dress (NCD/CADPAT in the field), with the personal choice to wear DEU;
The only exceptions to this directive are:
· at sea and when working or training on board HMC Ships or Submarines;
· during weapons instructional training, seamanship and DC/FF training periods;
· when attending training in NABS;
· during operational and field exercises; and
· when required to work on equipment, in storerooms, or in an unclean environment.

All ceremonial events, including Colours and Sun Set shall be conducted in the DEU order of dress.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 01:53:32 by gwp »

Offline Radar114

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2009, 22:27:31 »
So, then what about the 3 years I wore CADPAT in ON?  I wasn't crawling in the mud everyday.  How about the guys working at CEFCOM?  The old CFJHQ in Kingston?

The directive in the ref is aimed at pers in Esquimalt / Halifax, not at sailors working in other establishments.  Also the directive is from NOTC VENTURE and could be applied for MARCOM pers while employed in MARCOM units.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 22:31:12 by Radar114 »

Offline Sailorwest

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2009, 10:56:38 »
Personally, I've never quite figured out why the Army and now the Air Force type seem fixated on wearing the most expensive clothing issued by the CF to wear around an office and push paper around. You spend $$$$ on coming up with a sophisticated camoflauge pattern and special cloth and then choose to wear it every day in an office environment so it can fade and have to become unservicable sooner than it should be.
Regardless, it is up to the employing unit how it wants its staff to be dressed. Navy pers attached to an Army unit will typically be issued CADPAT and will be compelled to wear it as dress of the day. Army pers attached to a shore based Navy unit will almost never be issued with NCD's and would follow the order of dress determined by that unit. Although I'm not sure about the air Det in a FFH, who I assume wear their own specialized dress (flight gear), any non-Navy types posted in a ship would be issued NCD and follow the order of dress for the ship. Navy guys posted to a Navy shore based unit should be only wearing CADPAT if they are in fact going to be doing field related work. At least in my opinion.

Offline gwp

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2009, 11:33:19 »
So, then what about the 3 years I wore CADPAT in ON?  I wasn't crawling in the mud everyday.  How about the guys working at CEFCOM?  The old CFJHQ in Kingston?

And that is one aspect of why the Navy has an image problem in inland Canada.  If no one dresses as a sailor there are no sailors and then there is no Navy as far as Canadians are concerned.

Offline Sailorwest

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2009, 12:10:40 »
And that is one aspect of why the Navy has an image problem in inland Canada.  If no one dresses as a sailor there are no sailors and then there is no Navy as far as Canadians are concerned.
You are maybe overlooking the presence of NRD's throughout the major inland cities. None of the sailors at those units should be wearing CADPAT and are supposed to be the Naval presence in the inland cities. Granted, they are typically only working one or two evenings a week but that image problem in inland areas is the reason why there are NRD's in places like Saskatoon and Calgary.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2009, 12:38:18 »
IMO Navy should only wear cadpat if they are going into the field. Just because you are posted to Gagetown, Kingston, Petawawa, etc does not mean you need or should wear them.  Why should I wear cadpat to go into an office the same as I do now?
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