Author Topic: BFT / Aircraft Choice  (Read 10759 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cda84

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 10
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 50
BFT / Aircraft Choice
« on: January 13, 2007, 18:43:18 »
Good day all,

Did a search and couldn't find much on a recent note here. As far as recent BFT courses and aircraft category selection? How has it been going? Have most guys/girls gotten their preference?

On that note, if anybody with information on what the instructors look for as far as what type of aircraft to put you on, and if there is anything I can do in advance to prepare myself for a certain category, as I am likely to go on PFT this summer or fall, can PM (Message) me that would be excellent. For example as far as my previous mil. experience and OJT postings, etc.

Cheers

Offline pipstah

  • Member
  • ****
  • 700
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 228
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2007, 22:22:00 »
If I remember right, last course selection was past friday and they got: 2 jets ( 2 first choice), 3 helos  (3 first choices) and 3 multis ( 2 first choice and one third choice) (but not 100% sure about it totally about that course) The other course prior to them: 3 jets (2 first choice and 1 second choice) 2 multi ( 1 first choice and 1 second) and 4 helos ( 2 first choices, 1 second and 1 third). If it can give you an idea of how it is going...so far there is no really big surprise. There was a big hump passing from the mighty slingsby to the haarvard and the new guys who has done the last pft on the new syllabus seem to be better prepared than we were. The instruction is very good here in the Jaw and don't worry if the only PFE you have is PFT because the program here is taking that into consideration. As for IF, I was very affraid of IF because I knew nothing about that hell I could not even tell what was a damn radial! They take you from the beginning and flying a glass cockpit like that is just awsome!
Fangs of death
RESCUE!

Offline SF2

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 3,250
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 497
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2007, 23:17:23 »
I would concentrate on passing PFT first....then start worrying about BFT and aircraft selection

Offline Inch

  • Signal Charlie Goodtimes
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -395
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,231
  • CH124 Driver
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2007, 07:39:19 »
Since half the cockpits in the CF are helos, approx 50% of the slots in Moose Jaw tend to be helo slots. When I went through in 2003, to get jets, you need to be top 1/3 on your course. The rest is all timing, if you want multi and you're on a course that a lot of people want multi, you have to have finished better on the course in order to get it. If you want helo, you should have no problem getting it, unless you're on a course where everyone wants helo.

So, do the best you can in Moose Jaw, you've got a 50% chance of going helo and unless you're top third don't expect to get jets.
You sir are a moron!
A Mormon? But I'm from Earth.

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 82,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,815
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2007, 10:14:20 »
It changed I think.  One of my friend finished in the 2/3 last fall and got jets (he's on IIB now).  5 people on his course got jets!

Max

Offline Globesmasher

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 348
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2007, 01:44:32 »
Like Inch said .......

Just focus on doing your best and passing your PFT and BFT and getting wings on your chest first.  Don't sweat the "selection" process.  There's a lot of students who wrap themselves around the axle really tight ... way too tight ..... worrying about something that they have no control over, and something they have no influence over whatsoever.  Just concentrate on doing your best and graduating first ... the next step will take care of itself.

Offline cda84

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 10
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 50
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2007, 18:22:19 »
Good day gents,

Well, focusing on passing PFT and BFT, yes. I wasn't asking how to pass PFT. Or saying that I am not concerned with passing every step of the way. Definitely. Just as in every military course I've taken thus far, work hard, study hard, keep a good attitude, do what you're told and strive and hope for the best. For the record, as it seems I must say, I will be happy on any mission given to me. CF member first, pilot second is the way I see it.

However, thanks to those of you who answered my question. That is exactly what I was curious about, how many spots have gone where. Helos maybe in the past, now jets, who knows with the new transports and Afghanistan's progress, more multis down the road?

Nothing wrong with asking a relevant question to my career on army.ca. I am curious also as to how they select you for what spot? Myself, like anyone, has career ambitions, and I am not going to disregard these for people telling me to just focus on passing a course. If I can't find it here I'll ask elsewhere, but here would be much more convenient from those of you who know first hand. Inch, Max, I know you guys have gone through it and thanks, I appreciate it. Pipstah, looks like you got that information from somewhere reliable, again, much thanks guys!

Again, I have heard varying ideas, from flying style, to grades, to attitude. Do the instructors tell you at the start of BFT, 'alright for those of you wanting this, we want to see this'. The criterion for how one is being judged? (of course this does not always happen in the CF!) Well, if anybody else has a tidbit from experience as to how that is judged after BFT, great. Feel free to PM it to me as well.

Cheers

Offline Inch

  • Signal Charlie Goodtimes
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -395
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,231
  • CH124 Driver
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2007, 19:21:30 »
I'm sure they have their methods for selection, unfortunately, no one that I know, really knows what the criteria is. Top candidate will typically get their first choice, beyond that, I couldn't tell you for certain, though I do have some theories. More people on my course got their second choice, a few got what they wanted, but I would say the majority got their second choice, at least when I went through.

It's a constantly changing system with new priorities and demands coming up all the time, so when I went through, on average, 2 people per course got jets. 50% got helo and everyone else got multi. Given the numbers of cockpits in the CF, this is a pretty good way to base your "chances" on getting one type over another. Also, what you want right now may change through the course. I got there and wanted nothing but jets, by the end, I would have taken jets if they gave them to me, but I really wanted helos.

Every day counts in Moose Jaw and Portage, 25% of your final grade is daily flying, so if you're screwing the pooch on a daily basis, you're not going to finish well. 25% is ground school, almost everyone gets the same score here, you study and work as a course. 25% is flight tests, 5% for each test so again, of the 5 days to bring your best stuff, flight test days are the ones. The final 25% of your grade is officer development, this is the X factor in my opinion and is used to send who they want where they want.

A lot of other things go into this, when they sit for the selection board, you really need to have someone going to bat for you or you won't get what you want. Flight Commanders and Course Directors sit on this one as well as a few others. So you need to impress some people, both in the air and around the school. Kissing *** won't do it, you've got to let your hands, feet and brain do the talking, so to speak.
You sir are a moron!
A Mormon? But I'm from Earth.

Offline cda84

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 10
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 50
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 20:47:46 »
Inch,

That is perfect, exactly the information I was looking for. Thankyou very much.

Offline SF2

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 3,250
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 497
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2007, 10:34:14 »
cda84,

I didn't mean to be so blunt, but I will be the first to tell you how i see it.

I've been in the military for 12 yrs, flying Griffons for 5 of them.  I went thru PFT in 97, Moose Jaw in 01.  All the way from ASC to Wings, I saw people getting too wrapped up in "behind the scenes" stuff, which resulted in the meat and potatoes stuff going to hell(hands, feet, and brain).

ASC - guys are asking about microsoft flight sim, getting 172 time, practicing math questions before they go.....then they end up failing miserably because when they got to ASC, it was totally different than what they expected, and got flabergasted.

PFT - One guy in particular on my course was so hell bent on getting F18's.  He did OJT in Cold Lake before, showed up to Portage with all the lingo, he even had his own callsign on his nametag.  Did he pass PFT?  Nope.  He got so nervous before a test because he wanted to be perfect for jets, that he failed.

BFT - Another guy, again, hell bent on getting F-18's - avoided anyone remotely related to the helo word (both instructors and students who wanted helo).  Everyone found this incredibly obnoxious, and even though he did well academically, and had decent hands and feet, his attitude sucked, and he ended up actually failing one flight test, flustered on a few ED's, and blew the re-test on a stupid mistake (flew thru an active snowbird area).  No wings for him either.

Cda84 - again, I'm trying to be realistic.  My advice to you is concentrate on one step at a time, and maximize your pontential on that very step.  Excel at PFT first, get thru that phase, then start worrying about how they allocate slots in Moose Jaw.  I'm telling you, any uneccessary worrying will only make things more difficult.  The road to Wings is already a challenging one, and the best guys learn to keep things simple, listen to their instructors, and have a willingness to learn and excel at what they learn.

Cheers

Offline cda84

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 10
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 50
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2007, 21:40:26 »
SF2,

No doubt about that. I know the type, not from flight school obviously, but they exist across the CF. They drive me nuts.

Good advice.

Cheers.

Offline benny88

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 8,740
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 657
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2007, 05:00:44 »
If I remember right, last course selection was past friday and they got: 2 jets ( 2 first choice), 3 helos  (3 first choices) and 3 multis ( 2 first choice and one third choice) (but not 100% sure about it totally about that course) The other course prior to them: 3 jets (2 first choice and 1 second choice) 2 multi ( 1 first choice and 1 second) and 4 helos ( 2 first choices, 1 second and 1 third).


        I see the question of slot assignment answered a lot with percentages (ie, 50% rotary), and that's confusing when you don't know how many are on a course. Are Pipstah's examples (8-9) pretty standard course sizes?
       Also, duly noted about taking things one step at a time, although I don't think theres anything wrong with asking about what other attributes other than class standing are considered when selecting aircraft type. I think most people who ask these questions, including me, even though we may be hoping for a certain stream, are still reasonable and understand that it doesn't really matter what aircraft type as long as we're lucky enough to be a CF pilot. For instance, I want fixed-wing, but you won't find me crying over my collective if they put me in a helicopter.
       I am told I'm getting a PFT bypass due to my ROTP program (true, I have nothing in writing yet, but I digress.) If I end up bypassing PFT, will that negatively impact such things as instructor's comments from PFT that would contribute to me being chosen for the stream that I'm best suited for?
       Finally, by the time I go to BFT if awarded a PFT pass, I will have PPL, CPL, and perhaps Multi Engine IFR (depends on wait time for Moose Jaw) from my University program. I'm not planning on being high and mighty and thinking I already know what I'm being taught, as military flying is completely different from civi and I'll soak up anything anyone cares to teach me about flying, however, is it reasonable to think that with that many fixed-wing hours it's more likely that I'll be assigned to fixed-wing?
       Once again, I realize I'm very few steps down the Pilot road, but I believe that by doing my research I improve my chances, so I thank you for your collective knowledge and help!
The people trying to make this world worse, are not taking a day off.

Offline Inch

  • Signal Charlie Goodtimes
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -395
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,231
  • CH124 Driver
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2007, 09:58:39 »
       I am told I'm getting a PFT bypass due to my ROTP program (true, I have nothing in writing yet, but I digress.) If I end up bypassing PFT, will that negatively impact such things as instructor's comments from PFT that would contribute to me being chosen for the stream that I'm best suited for?
       Finally, by the time I go to BFT if awarded a PFT pass, I will have PPL, CPL, and perhaps Multi Engine IFR (depends on wait time for Moose Jaw) from my University program. I'm not planning on being high and mighty and thinking I already know what I'm being taught, as military flying is completely different from civi and I'll soak up anything anyone cares to teach me about flying, however, is it reasonable to think that with that many fixed-wing hours it's more likely that I'll be assigned to fixed-wing?
       Once again, I realize I'm very few steps down the Pilot road, but I believe that by doing my research I improve my chances, so I thank you for your collective knowledge and help!

PFT bypass didn't hurt me, 2 low standards and a fail on flight tests hurt me.

I too had a Commercial MIFR from an Aviation Technology program, two more guys from my year also joined at the same time. 2 guys from the year ahead of us joined and between the 5 of us, 1 got jets, 1 got multi and 3 of us got helos.

So to answer your question, no it is not reasonable to think you will go fixed wing due to what you had before you joined. You will go where the CF needs you.
You sir are a moron!
A Mormon? But I'm from Earth.

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 173,455
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,124
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2007, 14:37:35 »

       
       I am told I'm getting a PFT bypass due to my ROTP program (true, I have nothing in writing yet, but I digress.) If I end up bypassing PFT, will that negatively impact such things as instructor's comments from PFT that would contribute to me being chosen for the stream that I'm best suited for?
     

Benny,

Being an ex-CAM myself and knowing a few ex-CAM'ers who've since gotten their wings, you're definitely bypassing PFT. 

On a side note, hope UWO is as fun as when I finished in '04!  Go 'Stangs!
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline benny88

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 8,740
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 657
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2007, 19:15:57 »
Thanks Inch and Dimsum, those are good examples.


PS- UWO is ABSOLUTELY still as much fun.
The people trying to make this world worse, are not taking a day off.

Offline pipstah

  • Member
  • ****
  • 700
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 228
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2007, 17:13:20 »
As for group size, I would say around 10-15 at the beginning of course is the norm. Thing is, we are in a trade that loose a lot of people in training. For example: In PFT we started with 16 and ended up with 11. In BFT we started up with 13 and with ended with 9. At BHS... we got a nice 100% success rate. At phase 3 we were kinda worried because of the failing rate of the course prior to us. Everyone passed and looking back at it, I can say we were a tight group and we were always helping each other. We had a blast! I can say that most of people on my course wanted to go helicopter and it showed on the general attitude of the course. Man we were just like a big giant sponge absorbing all that new information and asking for more every day!
 
As for previous flying experience, I think it does help alot but keep an open mind but it can bite you in the ***. There's alot of stories of high time ex- civy pilots failing PFT and BFT. It would helps alot because you already have some exposure to that which is a good tool to have in your box.

Hope it helped you
Fangs of death
RESCUE!

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 82,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,815
Re: BFT / Aircraft Choice
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2007, 17:44:44 »
Benny88:  Here's what my course got (most recent selection):

We were initially 8 people on course.  1 got re-coursed for medical reasons to a later course (3 months later), 1 withdrew from training voluntarily, 1 failed, 1 was sent home for medical reasons and we got 1 guy from a previous course re-coursed on our course.  We ended up being 5 on our course.  Out of the 5 here's what people got:

1 Jet (1st choice)
1 Multi (1st choice)
3 Helos (2 first choice and 1 second choice)

They try really hard to give you at least your second choice (well, they did for us).  Make sure your Flight Commander and Course Director are very clear on what you want.  Let it known to people.  If your Flight Commander sees your choices when he gets on the selection board, that's not good!

Max