Author Topic: Promotion to Capt apres Wings  (Read 11656 times)

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Offline hercboy

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Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« on: January 31, 2007, 18:44:23 »
A question to anyone out there.  I ve heard rumors going in many different directions with regards to pay after wings.  My question is as a pilot are you garunteed captains pay after 3 years regardless if your winged or not.  So would you be getting backpay to the 3 year date?  Also as a 2Lt waiting training do you keep going up incentive levels, or are you only entitled to 1 incentive before wings.  Ive heard that some people get it some dont? No rhyme nor reason.  In my short time in ive learned never count on anything until you have it in writing, but none the less just wondering about the preceding questions, any help would be appreciated.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 19:04:39 »
I asked this question to a clerk recently and dug the info for me.  Here's what he came up with.

We get incentive in the 2Lt Rank.  The normal progression is 1 year as a 2Lt, 2 years as a Lt and then Capt.  Depending how much time your training takes, you will be promoted to Lt or Capt upon wing grad with a back pay of the money you didn't get because of training.  You will be 2Lt for the whole training process up to the wings. 

For example.  You take 2 years to train.  You will be promoted to Lt and get a back pay for 1 year between 2Lt Incentive 1 and Lt pay.

In other words, you won't loose money because of training.  It's like you put the difference in pay in an account (without interest, of course) and take it out after you grad.

Max

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 19:22:03 »
Chapter 204.2156 of the Compensation and Benefits Instruction provides the "legal" detail of the pay for 2Lt/Lt pilots.  It's best for you to discuss the details of sub-para (8) with a pay clerk in the unit's pay section, for confirmation of Supermax's info (which sounds about right, but don't be afraid to double-check.)

G2G

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2007, 19:40:24 »
Chapter 204.2156 of the Compensation and Benefits Instruction provides the "legal" detail of the pay for 2Lt/Lt pilots.  It's best for you to discuss the details of sub-para (8) with a pay clerk in the unit's pay section, for confirmation of Supermax's info (which sounds about right, but don't be afraid to double-check.)

G2G

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Offline Inch

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 09:02:57 »
I was back paid for 2 years as an Lt and 11 months as a Capt when I got my wings, just over $22,000 before taxes.

The catch of course is if you fail out, you get no backpay. Zero. So, no, you're not guaranteed Capt pay after 3 years, you only get that if you get your wings, otherwise, you start all over again in a new trade.

I was a 2Lt for 4 years, I got 2Lt Basic, IPC 1 and IPC 2 then I didn't get an incentive after that.
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Offline hercboy

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 15:04:49 »
One more Question, lets assume it takes 5 years to get ones wings.  So he would be paid 2 of those as a capt. Now, would this mean he would start at a Capt base, 1, or 2?  Also if one went through as scheduled (I know this will not happen more curiosity) say 2.5 years to wings, he would then get his Lt. for .5 of a year, than which incentive captain would he start at? Base or 1?

Offline Globesmasher

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 15:23:16 »
Just like Roy and G2G suggested .... go to the source for this kind of information.

Go see your RMS clerk and the people trained to properly answer these questions.  Typically if you ask 6 people a question you're going to get about 7 different answers.  You don't ask your dentist about how to fix your car, or your mechanic how to invest for retirement ... so you may as well go see the RMS folks about financial details like this if I were you.

Just a suggestion is all .... don't take what you learn on forums as "gospel".  Don't go storming into your RMS section demanding stuff that someone told you on the forums, this one or otherwise.  It may not be correct.

Just a couple of cents for ya' is all.

Offline Inch

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2007, 15:52:48 »
Globesmasher,

Interesting you put it that way, since I was the one that took the CBI regarding LTA on Special Leave into the CSOR. They had no idea what I was talking about. I was in fact entitled to what I claimed and it took me and the clerks on IRO to get it sorted out.

So, no, I don't believe for a sec that a QL3 qualified Pte/OS RMS clerk knows more about my pay than I do (or should). In my experience, the only ones that knew pilot backpay in detail were the clerks in Moose Jaw, everyone else had no idea.

hercboy,

You always start at basic unless it's less than what you're making before you're promoted.
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Offline hercboy

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2007, 16:00:43 »
Thanks for the response inch,  I have had some pay issues about them not knowing what i was entitled to, which has taken a year and a half to finally sort out, hence the reason i asked here hoping someone with recent experience could answer my questions.  By no means am I blaming the clerks, if there office is anything like ours they are probably severly understaffed.

Offline hollywood13

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2007, 13:22:16 »
A little off topic, but does anybody know the regulations for Air Crew Allowances. Obviously im looking into it for the guys on OJT here at the Squadron. As OJTs we go flying in the aircraft as part of our job to learn... as well most of us are PFT bypass, or have completed PFT. Do you have to be a winged pilot, or on course to get the aircrew allowance? Typically the OJTs are going up flying twice a week, and for example I am doing a SAR exercise this week, where I will be lowered out of the Griffion etc. ... so if anyone knows the regs to getting aircrew allowance, please post


Offline Ditch

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2007, 13:50:37 »
Hollywood,

You should be filling out a casual aircrew allowance form - all of our OJTers do it here at YQQ.

Every time you go flying, write down the K1017 number and keep a log.  At the end of every month get your DSOpsO to sign your form and send it up to the SOR.

No regs to state at the moment - this is SOP at every Wing in Canada.
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Offline x-zipperhead

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2007, 13:57:06 »
I believe aircrew allowance is paid providing;
1. You are wings qualified
2. Posted to a flying position
3. Flying at an annual rate or awaitnig training

The situation you describe (i.e. non wings qualified) sounds like you would receive Casual Aircrew Allowance $25-ish each time you go flying up to a mximum of the lowest incentive monthly allowance (currently $285).

I don't have a link for you for the CFAO or applicable Flying Orders as I am at home.


Offline Skosh

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2007, 14:06:21 »
K heres the CBI wrt Cas AC Allowance...

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=205.325&sidecat=22&Chapter=205#205.325

Under the eligibility, you can try and interpret it as best you can... but according to the CBIs, if you are acting as a pax, no joy on the cash. 

It then goes on to state that you get the money if you are undergoing flying training to become a pilot.  Now, one could possibly argue that you, as an OJTer, are always training, even if you arent at the big 2.  In the same breath, it could be argued that going for back seats in a hornet isnt training... its just fun.

I think being lowered out of a griffon will definately entitle you to the allowance.  As for just going for a ride, cant say for sure.

I say no harm in asking.  The OR will decide for you.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2007, 14:38:27 »
You can go on for rides and still train.  Everytime I go up, I learn a LOT out of the flight.

An other question re: Pay Allowance...  What is the YEARS OF ACCUMULATED ELIGIBLE SERVICE in the TABLE TO CBI 205.32?  Number of years wing qualified or Number of years in the Forces?

Max

Offline Inch

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2007, 21:22:44 »
You can go on for rides and still train.  Everytime I go up, I learn a LOT out of the flight.

An other question re: Pay Allowance...  What is the YEARS OF ACCUMULATED ELIGIBLE SERVICE in the TABLE TO CBI 205.32?  Number of years wing qualified or Number of years in the Forces?

Max

Neither.

Number of years employed in a designated flying position. If you're doing a ground tour, that time doesn't count towards your eligible service (IE, 8 years in a flying position and 3 years in a non-flying position equals 8 years towards your aircrew allowance rate, not 11 years). 2CFFTS and 3CFFTS as a student are not designated flying positions, hence the reason you don't get regular aircrew allowance and that time doesn't count towards the eligible service. Once you're winged and posted to a flying position on a Sqn, the clock starts. It stops when you're posted out of that flying position to a non-flying position.
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Offline Astrodog

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2007, 23:02:09 »
what exactly IS aircrew allowance?
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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2007, 23:09:40 »
what exactly IS aircrew allowance?


$274 a month for the first 0-5 years in a designated flying position.......on top of your regular pay  ;D

Offline Ditch

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2007, 23:12:00 »
$274 a month for the first 0-5 years

Ahem... $285 now - with the latest pay and incentive raise.  :)
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Offline Astrodog

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2007, 23:14:47 »
Is there any particular reason for it?
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2007, 23:17:59 »
Thanks cdnaviator.  So, your ground postings years don't count towards the eligible years?

Max

aesop081

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2007, 23:20:01 »
Thanks cdnaviator.  So, your ground postings years don't count towards the eligible years?

Max

Thats correct....only time in a designated flying position counts for aircrew allowance.  When i was in Nav school...every flight we went on , we got CASUAL aircrew allowance.  When i wnt to OTU, i started getting the monthly allowance as i was posted into a flying position.

Offline Inch

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Re: Promotion to Capt apres Wings
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2007, 23:29:22 »
Is there any particular reason for it?

Not too sure, but more to do with hazards associated with flying. That's what all allowances are for really, if you're in Afghanistan, you get large amounts of extra cash, if you fly you get aircrew allowance, if you sail you get sea pay, if you fly Sea Kings you get aircrew allowance and sea pay. Allowances are a means of compensating you for doing a job that's a little more risky than something an RMS clerk or Public Affairs Officer would do.
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