Author Topic: Do I take the pilot offer??  (Read 25586 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2008, 20:45:06 »
There is also a really really long waiting period for pilots. You will go to st.jean for your IAP BOTP and then go to Second language training for up to 8 months unless you already speak fluent french. After second language training you will probably end up doing on the job training( which is pretty much doing nothing other then occasionally catching a ride on a herc ) for years before even beginning your real job training. Also the different phases of training has long break between because they are so backed up. I had a bunch of friends back at my basic which was about 11 months ago and they all tell me that all of them won't actually get to fly anything for years to come. If excitement is your primary interest in being a pilot I suggest you look into the actual timeframe of you training at the recruiters and any other pilots in the training system before you sign on the dotted line. Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

I thought they changed the requirements for SLT post-BMOQ ??
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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2008, 20:46:04 »
Well see the word gryphon or griffon is actually not an "aircraft type". If you look up griffon in the dictionary you will not get a helicopter of the Canadian forces. The helicopter is named after the mythical animal so if gryphon is the same animal as the griffon well then it is also the same "aircraft type".

Reminds me of an episode of Star Trek TNG, where some visiting officer kept pronouncing Data's name with a short A as opposed to the long A (dat-uh vice dey-tuh).  At one point, Data corrected her and she said "Data, data, what's the difference?"

Data replied, "One is not my name."
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Offline MJP

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2008, 20:46:33 »
As we have derailed this topic a bit, but it is still relevant, especially to a person who may be wanting to become a pilot in the CF.......Klinkaroo you are WRONG.  It is a very important matter as detailed in my previous post on AFV Recognition.  This simple "indiscretion" in lax spelling of an aircraft type, could cost someone's life in the future.  Get it right or get called on it.  What you write is understood by most, literally as you print/type it.  If you get it wrong in print, someone may have to pay for it with their life.

The helicopter that the CF flies is not a Gryphon.  It is a CH-146 Griffon.  The Gryphon, for all we know, may be some multi-role fighter in Outer Slobovia.

I agree it is a very interesting thread being ruined by someone griping about the usage/spelling of a word. 

Take it to PMs and spare the rest of us your little tirade
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2008, 21:02:46 »
Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

I am hoping, in hind sight, you can admit that this is somewhat dramatic, and would be suitable as a line in a CBC 'made for TV' movie, just before they cut to commercial....
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2008, 22:31:30 »
There is also a really really long waiting period for pilots. You will go to st.jean for your IAP BOTP and then go to Second language training for up to 8 months unless you already speak fluent french. After second language training you will probably end up doing on the job training( which is pretty much doing nothing other then occasionally catching a ride on a herc ) for years before even beginning your real job training. Also the different phases of training has long break between because they are so backed up. I had a bunch of friends back at my basic which was about 11 months ago and they all tell me that all of them won't actually get to fly anything for years to come. If excitement is your primary interest in being a pilot I suggest you look into the actual timeframe of you training at the recruiters and any other pilots in the training system before you sign on the dotted line. Once you sign on the dotted line.....they own you. Just something to think about at your "fork."

Funny, I have friends that just finished Phase IIA that are on Monday's Helo Course and I have friends I graduated from Phase IIA with that are done the Multi Course within 8 months of being done Phase IIA.  Jet guys don't stop between phases.  I suggest you get your info right before you post. 

Offline Elwood

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2008, 23:57:44 »
PM inbound AverageJoe...

Offline SF2

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2008, 08:22:10 »
For the record, from the start of Phase II to Wings grad was 16 months for me.

And it is spelled Griffon, or else i have a lot of correcting to do in my logbook....about 1500hrs worth.

Offline Ditch

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2008, 11:02:44 »
And it is spelled Griffon, or else i have a lot of correcting to do in my logbook

You spell out the name of the plane in your logbook?  I barely have enough room to put the CF designator (i.e. CC-115, CH-146,etc)
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Offline TheCheez

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2008, 11:13:46 »
Funny, I have friends that just finished Phase IIA that are on Monday's Helo Course and I have friends I graduated from Phase IIA with that are done the Multi Course within 8 months of being done Phase IIA.  Jet guys don't stop between phases.  I suggest you get your info right before you post. 

Max
The significant delays are before Phase II these days as I understand it. For me personally it was 2 years to get to PhIIA(from enrollment) 2 years after starting PhIIA to wings and estimating another 1.5 wait for OTU.

Offline Astrodog

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2008, 11:34:03 »
The significant delays are before Phase II these days as I understand it. For me personally it was 2 years to get to PhIIA(from enrollment) 2 years after starting PhIIA to wings and estimating another 1.5 wait for OTU.

 Did you get a phase I bypass? Current wait times, from what I've seen, are 10-14 for Portage (obviously I get the 14mo wait!), 6-8 for Moose Jaw. Of course this is after a max 10 month stay at CFLRS, so you can be looking at well over 24mo til you strap a Harvard on.
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Offline pipstah

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2008, 12:59:31 »
Joining the flying club is not for everyone. You'll have to sacrifices alot, for example: being away from family for 8+ months for a course... It's alot of work but at the end it's an awesome job.

For me personally, I don't have a job, I am living my dream. I don't count the hours I spend in the books or the overtime, I'm just loving it. I still remember my first flight in the back when I was a infantry weekend warrior... Did my first river run around Valcatraz man I had a blast. Now, I am doing the same thing but being in the front seat. After landing and talking to the guys when I see their smiles and talking to eachother about their rides is priceless to me. That's the samething when I get a SAR call at 3:00 in the morning.

I guess like the others, the waiting for phase 2A is the longest but after that get ready to go fast speed. Looking at my log book and in a year I flew 3 different aircrafts. I talked to somes OJT at the squadron and they are scheduled to go phase 2A April next year...

I would say yes to do everything again in a heart beat!  ;D
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Offline weiss

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2008, 08:24:58 »
Interesting topic.  I am 41, not 31 (don't laugh) and was strongly advised to reactivate my application early next year.  I am making over 100 a year and my job is demanding and probably is just as somebody's dream as is pilot to me. 

I will take an offer if I ever get it.  Here is why:

If I finish my commercial pilot program with helluva lot of sacrifice it will put me down some 30K over what I have already spend on my flying.

Until my early retirement at 55 I will have to spend all my time off flying, and girl I am dating now hates the fact that I will be working 18 hours a day 30 days a month ( my present job + bottom-feeding class 4 instructor or something).

In civilian aviation I  may never make it to multi jets, chances are I will be confined to flying 152's or Duchesses if I am lucky.  It is fun in its own way but...

I love working out and I have heard there are somewhat decent gyms at every base wich I don't have to drive to or pay for.  Ain't it great?

The more I make the more trouble I get myself into.  Right now I am just trying to pay off all outstanding debts to come out debt free.  I must be debt-free to be able to take an offer.

Offline Signalman150

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2008, 16:56:38 »
GungHo,

Just my two cents. I know that elsewhere on the board I've made mention of this, but it bears repeating.

A lot of good advice here, particularly the 'grass is always greener on the other side' stuff.  If you love what yr doing now, keep at it; a good firefighter is worth his or her weight in gold.  However...

I applied to the CF as a pilot back in 1976. For a variety of reasons--some of them being that I was a typical, unfocused idiot teenager, I never followed through.  Eventually I settled on a civilian career and instead did my 'bit' by spending 19 years in the CF reserve (comms).

A while back I was working at an office that was right on the flight path of the Edmonton Municipal Airport. Often as I stood outside taking my smoke-break, I would watch the Hercs coming in on final to the Muni. Every single time I saw one of those Hercs I'd feel my stomach flip flop a little bit.  Why?  Because I'd have rather been an pilot/nav/FE on that Herc than standing on the ground having a smoke and working the civvy job I'd chosen.

CF18s sound pretty glamorous; must be time to break out my old copy of Top Gun again.  But the reality is this; I remember a discussion I witnessed between two captains many years ago in Victoria.  They had both started their flying training at the same time, and I couldn't help but notice that the fighter jock of the two was a little dismayed--and jealous--when he found out that his Argus/Aurora mate had ten times as much flight time logged.

Just some food for thought.  Good luck.
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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2008, 18:05:51 »
I’ve been a nav and a pilot and I’ve flown several military aircraft types including the Hornet.  For Gung Ho’s clarification, he needs some of the erroneous information provided corrected before he can make an informed decision.  The comment Niteshade made about pay is completely incorrect.  While on training, i.e. pre-wings, assuming Gung Ho has a degree and is entering under DEO, he will make about $50,000/yr.  If he has minimal waiting periods between types of training, he could be promoted to lieutenant rank for a short period of time during which he would be making slightly more.  Upon reaching captain rank, which should occur within a year of receiving wings, the salary jumps to about $77,000 per year including flight pay.  At five years in the captain rank, Gung Ho will be making over $90,000 with flight pay, but that does not include the annual raise we see of about 2% per annum.  The way the pension plan would work for Gung Ho is that he would “build” 2% a year of the average of his best five years.  He would be on a 25 year contract that would see him receive a 50% pension at its completion.  Should he decide to leave the CF prior to contract completion, he would receive an annuity deferred to CRA of 2% per year of the average of his best five years. 

Waiting periods vary.  It appears that the requirement to do SLT prior to pilot training can now be waived depending upon the numbers of trainees available to fill pilot serials.  All of the reports I read in others’ comments were credible.  If a candidate is unlucky, it could take close to three years from beginning Basic Training to earning wings and up to almost two more years prior to completing an OUT.  However, a very lucky individual could end up in the same place in a little over a year and a half. 

As for the fighter pilots who are envious of the hours in a transport pilots log book, I would take that sort of second-hand, overheard conversation with a grain of salt.  True, the extra hours look good when applying for an airline job; however, fighter pilots go through log books at pretty much the same rate as anyone else.  I may have only logged 240 hrs per year on the Hornet, but that equated to about 200 flights and 200 lines in my log book.  Those flights were almost all single-seat, so I didn’t have to work my way through a co-pilot “apprenticeship” and I never had to make a “decision by committee.”  And, unlike a transport aircraft, the hours were almost all hands-on, not on autopilot for hours on end as the plane transited an ocean or large land mass.

To be fair though, it’s been a long time since the Hornets have done anything “real-world” apart from some peacetime NORAD intercepts.  Almost every other fleet has been flying operationally (except, of course, training).  If I had to do it over again right now, I would be looking at the new ship borne helicopter instead of fighters – its combat capabilities, performance and versatility will make it very attractive to mission planners for virtually any geographic location in the world.  The new Chinooks and J model Hercules are also going to see lots of real-world use.  Location also needs to be considered – although the Auroras have lost some of their hours over the last few years, their basing locations in Comox and Greenwood are pretty attractive compared to Cold Lake or Bagotville.  Same for a ship borne helicopter posting to Pat Bay or Shearwater.  Apart from the SAR dets in Goose Bay and Gander, it’s only the fighter and TacHel worlds that seem to have the remote posting locations that Gung Ho would prefer to avoid.

If I were Gung Ho, I would only make the jump to the CF if I could take a sabbatical from my firefighter job so that is was still there in the event that I did not pass the pilot course. 


Offline Loachman

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2008, 19:09:52 »
First piece of advice: Check the profiles of some of the posters in this thread and weigh their advice accordingly.

Second piece, and it's already been said: Decide what you most want to do, really and truly. Take how you think that you would feel if you made the opposite decision into account as well.

I've been doing this for a while, and cannot think of much else that I'd rather do. It fits me. Firefighter would not, and neither would too many other occupations regardless of pay, prestige, or any other measure.

We can tell you - those of us that are actually doing or have done it, and those who are also aircrew of other descriptions, that is - about our experiences, but it's what you want that counts for you.

You are, in a way, lucky to have this dilemma. Most won't get a chance at either calling. That doesn't make it easy, though, I know.

Offline Wickes

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2008, 19:25:10 »
Waiting periods vary.  It appears that the requirement to do SLT prior to pilot training can now be waived depending upon the numbers of trainees available to fill pilot serials.  All of the reports I read in others’ comments were credible.  If a candidate is unlucky, it could take close to three years from beginning Basic Training to earning wings and up to almost two more years prior to completing an OUT.  However, a very lucky individual could end up in the same place in a little over a year and a half. 

Not to come off as a personal attack, but ask around on the training side before making a comment on timelines.  I've been in 2.5 years, and have PFT done thats it.  MJ is upcoming soon.  All things go well I end up on AFT maybe late 09, probably early 2010.  By the time that course is done I'm looking at 4.5 years from BOTP to Wings.  And my timeline is VERY typical.  The year and a half just doesn't happen. 

I'm not trying to discourage anyone, I love what I do.  And encourage anyone who is given the chance to at least try and see what happens.

Offline bartbandyrfc

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2008, 22:55:58 »
Gungho,

The pilot job is like many others in some ways.  Being a firefighter is awesome and rewarding work.  My brother in law did that for nearly 40 years.  He loved the job until he hung up his boots for the last time back in May. It's honourable work, and you have the world by the tail.

However, you say you are missing something.  Decide what that is and then ask yourself if what you are missing is the follwing:

- A job that is so engrossing you will gladly study an exceptional amount of time (and during your time off) just to be better at it
- A chance to see views from your cockpit that 99% of the Canadian populace will never get to see
- A chance to see some amazing locales all over the world - sometimes more than once in one day.
- A chance to test yourself in an arena where your decisions actually mean the difference between mission success and mission failure - every time you fly (even as a student).  Sometimes lives depend on your decisions - not every day, but even once is enough to give one pause
- A chance to serve with people who will be your friends for life
- A chance to get paid exceedingly well, and to be provided with an opportunity to advance as high as you wish.  This not only means promotion.  Most pilots are very competitive and will work like dogs to be recognized by their peers as being the best of their profession (Fighter Weapons Instructor, Instrument Check Pilot, A2 or A1 Instructor Pilot, Standards Officer, etc).  This is why we have so man God-damn patches

I have flown the Aurora and the AWACs/B707 in Europe.  The former was my first airplane and not my first choice (I wanted C-130s - I was on the Air Canada training plan).  Even so, it turned out to be the best job I have ever had and twenty years later I am still in.  Flying on a mission far away from the boss, with just me and my crew to solve the problem, has always appealed to me. It gave me a chance to lead early in my career, and during a period when I had very little experience. Leading a crew is not making decisions by committee (as fightergator insultingly insinuates).  It's hard to lead a crew when the mission is tough, and when they are tired or frustrated.  Much harder than fightergtor gives others credit for.

Anyhow, my career choice has landed me with a rewarding and interesting job.  At the end of the day it's your choice.  My experience has been exceedingly good.  I have flown a lot of hours, taught others how to be good pilots, been rewarded with lots of professional opportunities, served over five years in Europe, fed my family, and kept them with me because I was happy and not pissed off with my life.  Knowing what I do about myself - this may not be the case if was still a working stiff on civvie street. 

There are no guarantees - but if you attain your goal you will never regret it. As a last note - if you choose to not take the offer, don't ever say "if only I had joined the Air Force...".  Make a decision - then no regrets.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide to do.

BB

PS I don't mean to denigrate Fightergator's post.  By and large he had some good info in his post.  The benefits info he posted was spot on and he is correct that all Tactical Aviation is moving towards some really operational work over the next few years.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 23:07:56 by bartbandyrfc »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2008, 23:16:09 »
First piece of advice: Check the profiles of some of the posters in this thread and weigh their advice accordingly.

Gungho

You are getting some pretty good advice.  The above should also be primary on your mind when reading that advice.  Some of the advice is coming from people with nothing in their profile, some of whom may not even had any dealings with the CF. 
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Offline Moody

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Re: Do I take the pilot offer??
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2008, 09:23:46 »
How long does GungHo have to decide? The original post was made on July 30th. Either way, it's a good thread for all of those who might be faced with a similar decision in the future.