Author Topic: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS  (Read 307728 times)

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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1050 on: July 15, 2017, 10:01:48 »
Well seeing as it's not proper to use Tribal names anymore and if they still want to have FN connections and this is the only way... I am OK within as they're both decent men who deserve the honour and recognition.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline serger989

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1051 on: July 15, 2017, 12:25:22 »
I object to naming navy ships after army heros.  Its bad enough that the JSS is named after land battles.  Just not proper....

The third ship name made me chuckle despite me knowing of the battle. So weird to call a ship "Crysler's Farm". In my mind I just picture a floating wooden barn filled with farm animals... :-X What would you have liked the ships to be named after however?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 12:28:58 by serger989 »

Offline FSTO

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1052 on: July 15, 2017, 12:34:13 »
Well seeing as it's not proper to use Tribal names anymore and if they still want to have FN connections and this is the only way... I am OK within as they're both decent men who deserve the honour and recognition.
Is that really the policy now?
I'm sure if the Navy approached the specific tribe and consulted with them respectfully we could do it again.

I just don't like the full names being used for HMC Ships

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1053 on: July 15, 2017, 13:38:49 »
Also there was direct involvement with the ship and the actual tribe on the old Tribal class.  The CO and delegates on Athabaskan used to go out every few years to visit.

I think it'd be a pretty cool way to mend some fences and there are already existing ship names that could be used again like the Haida.  It's a good opportunity to educate people as well as you tend to get naturally interested to find out more about something when you are living on a steel box named after it.

If the tribes were asked ahead of time, and involved with designing (or redesigning) the ship's crests and the mottos, it would also be an awesome way to permanently showcase some of the amazing FN art and culture.  Plus we're more likely to get something that actually is badass enough to be a warship name and motto doing that than letting boring bureaucrats come up with something as asinine as war of 1812 battle locations for ship names.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1054 on: July 15, 2017, 13:46:12 »
Almost ready to come out and play....

It doesn't look like it will fit through the door.

A friend of my father's built a boat in his basement like that many years ago. It looked very nice while it was in one piece.

So weird to call a ship "Crysler's Farm". In my mind I just picture a floating wooden barn filled with farm animals...

Like an Ark?

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1055 on: July 15, 2017, 14:28:16 »
I think a few aspects to remember are appropriate here.

First of all, no one has taken the various FN tribal names out of contention. The simple reason for that is that, while we convene naming committees (to the extent that the government of the day gives them any say in the matter, which is the opposite of what has been done with the last two classes - namely the JSS/AOR named after War of 1812 battles and the AOPS named after alleged* Canadian naval heroes, both of which were determined by the Harper government to be the area of selection), there are no books, regulations, directives or guidance provided these committee.

Second, HMCS Haida is not available anymore. While not in commission, the last HMCS Haida is a National historic site, designated as such as it is the last existing Tribal class ship preserved as such on behalf of all the Commonwealth nations that operated destroyers of this class.

Third, I don't think that the name of the third AOR had ever been selected. I, in these forum, made a joke of the fact that if there was third one they could select Chrysler farm as the name, but it would be weird to have a ship named after a form of land occupation.

I tend to agree with FSTO: Single names for warships, though it can include compound ones, such as all the various Saints we have had in the past  :salute:. I mean, anyone ever calls HMCS VILLE DE QUEBEC by her full name? No. We all say either "the Quebec" or call her "the VDQ".

* I say "alleged" because, in at least one case, William Hall, we have a Nova Scotian born British Citizen who served only with the Royal Navy, mostly in and around India and got a VC for service to the Empire as a result, but well before Nova Scotia was ever considered part of Canada - but they had to find a way to include some visible minority in the mix, even though few if any such minority had ever served in the RCN at times of wars fought by Canada. Similarly, Frederik Rolette, from Quebec city, who served with distinction throughout the War of 1812 but onboard British warships on the Great lakes - who at least came from a Canada - Lower Canada to be precise - was selected to have a token French Canadian in there somewhere, again even though few (but some did, especially in WWII) serve in the RCN's wars.

Offline Underway

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1056 on: July 15, 2017, 16:24:02 »
Here she is.

Some notes from the open house today. 

Irving is very very proud of their work and the employee's that I dealt with were delightful.  Even those who were not part of the "tour staff" were happily explaining their jobs to their families and those of us who asked questions (I probably know more about ship painting now that I need too, but next paint ship evolution I'll be able to Van Gogh it properly.)

Even with the understanding of the scale of the ship from plans and pictures, standing beside the mega blocks, the HDW (unofficial acronym) is quite large.

Bow thrusters up close are way cooler than I thought.

The bow steel is about 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" thick (no they did not let me measure with calipers).  The hull gets thinner as it goes up above the waterline.  Makes sense for an icebreaker.   There is also a double hull on the bow, that I could see.  One of the staff was explaining how to get in those small spaces to finish a few welds and also painting.

She has a real flat bottom.  Once again ice breaker.  The stabilization fins were smaller than I thought but are installed already on the middle megablock.

First ship was said to be 60% complete.

Any questions I'll try and answer but those were basically the highlights.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1057 on: July 15, 2017, 16:58:29 »
Is that really the policy now?
I'm sure if the Navy approached the specific tribe and consulted with them respectfully we could do it again.

I just don't like the full names being used for HMC Ships

I can't say if this "might" be future policy but I have seen some screaming from the 1% crowd, bitching about appropriation of FN tribes and images on the 280s etc, etc etc...  But, seeing how those in charge nowadays seem timid and run scared at the meer sniff of controversy or God forbid, offending just about everything and everyone.  I wonder if they might not be looking at a PC solution.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1058 on: July 15, 2017, 17:15:11 »
I was recently fortunate enough to receive a "behind the scene" tour of Harry DeWolf and she is about 60% percent complete and is now out of the assembly area and will be mated with the bow mega block #3 and stern.
 First impressions is that Harry DeWolf is a very large ship and everything seems over-sized, lots of storage, large flats, a large gym area among others. The bridge is quite large with plenty of viewing area and what would be expected of a Arctic Patrol Ship. Going through the ship in the various spaces I was impressed with the quality of construction and functionality. Machinery wise the four Man diesels are immense and all filter banks, centrifuges etc are piped away from the DA which makes running maintenance quite a bit simpler, All the machinery spaces are separated by automatic doors which makes rounds of the spaces a breeze.
The Caterpillar Emergency DA is impressive as well as the main motors which are quite large and impressive. A running theme to the entire ship I have found is that it well engineered for redundancy and to be self sufficient which is a must for operating in remote areas.
Accommodations are first rate with most having its own shower and wash place. The crew dines in an all ranks cafeteria and each has there own lounge with windows! For training and riders, there is a 20 man mess.
The world class environmental systems and waste disposal systems are impressive especially when operating in environmentally sensitive areas in the Arctic or the Caribbean and her exhaust has a scrubbing system to reduce its environmental footprint. From what I have seen with areas that allow ISO containers, there could be an argument made for a humanitarian capability.
For what I have seen first hand, I have come to the conclusion that comparing Harry DeWolf with the Danish or Norwegian equivalents is like comparing apples and oranges. Harry DeWolf is better acquitted and fitted out than the other patrol ships that I been on and operated with.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

كافر

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1059 on: July 16, 2017, 11:24:45 »
CS, out of interest, what models are the main and emerge DAs?  Cat-Cat or Cat-MaK?

Regards
G2G

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1060 on: August 16, 2017, 11:28:53 »
More relevant to the Diefenbaker and the Coast Guard but posted here for Arctic and sovereignty relevance.

Quote
U.S., Canada Team on Project for Icebreaker
8/15/2017
By Yasmin Tadjdeh   
The National Research Council of Canada simulates sea ice for testing.
Photo: National Research Council of Canada

With the United States facing the imminent retirement of its sole operational heavy-duty polar icebreaker, the U.S. Coast Guard is teaming with Canadian researchers to help conduct tests that will inform requirements for a new vessel.

The service is responsible for maintaining the nation’s fleet of polar icebreakers, but currently only has two operational ships in its inventory — the Polar Star, a heavy-duty vessel, and the Healy, a medium-duty icebreaker. With the Polar Star approaching the end of its service life in the next several years, the Coast Guard is working in earnest to field a new vessel.

This summer the service and the National Research Council of Canada teamed up to conduct ice testing for a potential new vessel. The experiments occurred at the NRC’s St. Johns, Newfoundland, facility, which has a large tank that can simulate sea ice.

“The way we build that ice sheet … is not just the way you would freeze ice cubes,” said Jim Millan, director of research at the facility. “We go through special processes to develop that ice so that it actually has the correct properties for us to test it. So it mimics basically sea ice at a model scale.”

At 300 feet in length, the tank is as long as the Statue of Liberty, he said. It is also 50 feet wide.

During the tests — which started in May and continued through August — the NRC conducted experiments with a heavy-duty polar icebreaker model that was 1/30 the scale of a normal vessel, he said. The model traversed the ice tank and simulated ice thicknesses up to eight feet.

Most of the testing focused on the powering and maneuvering of the vessel while breaking through ice, he said.

Naturally occurring sea ice is not flat, Millan said. “In nature it gets pressurized, and when two sheets of ice come together it’s almost like continental drift — you get pieces of ice flowing together with great force and you get these pressurized ridges that form and the ice gets pushed underwater and above the water into almost … a great big wall,” he said. Icebreakers can sometimes go around these obstacles, but occasionally have to batter through them, he added.

The ice tank is able to recreate some of these ridges, he said.

The St. John’s facility has been in operation since 1984. The NRC has in the past worked with the U.S. Coast Guard on research work for vessels such as the Healy, Millan said.

Canada’s coast guard is also working to procure new icebreakers. That makes the partnership between the two countries mutually beneficial, he said.

“It just makes sense for us to share in the development,” he said. “We are learning a lot from working with the U.S. Coast Guard. … Every ship model that we test is unique.”

The partnership will allow for commonality among the vessels, he added.


Topics: Maritime Security

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2017/8/15/us-canada-team-on-project-for-icebreaker
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1061 on: August 16, 2017, 13:21:14 »
I was recently fortunate enough to receive a "behind the scene" tour of Harry DeWolf and she is about 60% percent complete and is now out of the assembly area and will be mated with the bow mega block #3 and stern.
 First impressions is that Harry DeWolf is a very large ship and everything seems over-sized, lots of storage, large flats, a large gym area among others. The bridge is quite large with plenty of viewing area and what would be expected of a Arctic Patrol Ship. Going through the ship in the various spaces I was impressed with the quality of construction and functionality. Machinery wise the four Man diesels are immense and all filter banks, centrifuges etc are piped away from the DA which makes running maintenance quite a bit simpler, All the machinery spaces are separated by automatic doors which makes rounds of the spaces a breeze.
The Caterpillar Emergency DA is impressive as well as the main motors which are quite large and impressive. A running theme to the entire ship I have found is that it well engineered for redundancy and to be self sufficient which is a must for operating in remote areas.
Accommodations are first rate with most having its own shower and wash place. The crew dines in an all ranks cafeteria and each has there own lounge with windows! For training and riders, there is a 20 man mess.
The world class environmental systems and waste disposal systems are impressive especially when operating in environmentally sensitive areas in the Arctic or the Caribbean and her exhaust has a scrubbing system to reduce its environmental footprint. From what I have seen with areas that allow ISO containers, there could be an argument made for a humanitarian capability.
For what I have seen first hand, I have come to the conclusion that comparing Harry DeWolf with the Danish or Norwegian equivalents is like comparing apples and oranges. Harry DeWolf is better acquitted and fitted out than the other patrol ships that I been on and operated with.

Any idea on what type of boats it can handle?

Offline Underway

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1062 on: August 25, 2017, 21:17:55 »
Two 8.5m multirole rescue boats each (one on each side).  It also looks like in the plans you can launch a large boarding party RHIB on the starboard side, a TEMPSC covered orange survival craft on the port side and one of a covered LCV or similar from the stern by crane to carry forces ashore.


Offline Colin P

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Re: Arctic/Offshore Patrol Ship AOPS
« Reply #1063 on: August 28, 2017, 11:28:12 »
Thanks, glad to see they can operate a proper landing craft, now if it can take a Viking or BV206 that be great.