Author Topic: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)  (Read 105614 times)

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Offline Simon

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1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« on: September 01, 2007, 16:48:48 »
As you may know I am a recent arrival and I am finding this site extremely interesting.
So where do I start, I was a cadet in 74 on a 2 week exchange from Ipperwash to ValCartier.
On july 29/74 we lost two cadets to a lightning strike, on July 31/74 we lost 6 and 40 injured due to a grenade explosion during a demonstration inside the barracks of I believe D Company ( this was at CFB Valcartier).

Anyway, there is only one reference to this incident I have been able to find anywhere. There are some who are hard to heal and family looking for contact to those who were there with lost loved ones. I shall direct them here from the blackwatch site.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 06:31:09 by milnews.ca »
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Offline Future Unknown

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2007, 17:15:13 »
Yeah, I google hunted for days a f3ew years back and didn't see anything about this incident, untill I asked on this site and got a paragraph answer.
Maybe it would be good to post the whole incident and discuss it openly, on a forum like this.
I know its probably not like this, but with the lack of public information and the request to use PM's to discuss it it almost comes across as if it was hushed up and still is.
Blood is Freedom's Stain

Offline Simon

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2007, 17:28:41 »
The only information I got was from the Blackwatch website, it has a discussion thread but some reporter from La presse has been sniffing around wanting to do interviews. Im not interested in giving the media anything they would distort and try to embarrass the CF, nor am I interested in CF bashing either, Id rather see this topic locked.
That pretty much killed my interest in that thread. There are some hurting units out there who could use some help, one is the younger brother of a cadet that was killed asking for some info as to what he was like, he was 3-4 yrs old when it happened.
BTW what mech is there, if there is, to keep the bloodhounds from milnet.
The process is more important than the outcome
The process dictates the outcome

Offline Demonax

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 18:30:52 »
Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen:

I was a member of the Lanark and Renfrew Scots during 1974 and the story of the cadets being killed at Valcartier was well-known to all of us. I remember being told at the time that we should never assume even a dummy is inert. The event was tragic and it did affect many cadets. I had a friend in the Cadets at the time and he said it upset many of them to see this item vanish from the horizon so quickly. It was also unfair to blame the cadets as there was no way for them to assess whether the item was live or not. It was a sad affair

Offline mysteriousmind

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2007, 07:51:17 »
Each yearduring summer training period in Valcartier, there is always a remembrance parade for those who died in 1974. You can see near the cadet camp parade square a commemorative Platte with the names of those who died. but the story is quite short on the camp.
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2008, 00:52:33 »
See my post and comments
See my post and comments
Just noticed that the healing is still on going for many cadets of 1974,  had a talk with one about an hour ago, had to stop working as it was hindering his work performance.
This thread has been reopened.

Left you a meg. I don't know if you got it but I am suggesting that you contact me via my email. can be obtained on this sit. It seems that you and my Son in Law served in Bosnia in the same Sqn. now in a new trade in Ottawa. I would like to chat on this and other subjects.

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 15:25:20 »
[You can contact me through my son in law on this subject as I was the Coy. CSM.   Should the email not function, son in Law has confirmed that you have crossed path in Bosnia, the member that you mentioned on a post was with me in Germany many years back he was a M/cpl. then.

Offline bwatch

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1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2008, 14:57:54 »
Help is needed to contact all the cadets that were in D Company at Cadet Camp Valcartier 1974, a get-together is being planned for July 24, 2008 memorial, and further discussion for a major memorial in 2009.

Please contact this writer who will put you in contact with the CSM

Thanking you in advance for all the help you can provide.



Charles Gutta
CSM of the cadet company in question.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 16:08:40 by Danjanou »

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2008, 15:31:17 »
bwatch, a more descriptive title may be better for your post...I don't think I was the only person thinking there was possibly some kind of accident at BFC Valcartier.

G2G

Offline Danjanou

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 16:09:01 »
Modified to reflect it was the 1974 event.
NASA spent $12 Million designing a pen that could write in the zero gravity environment of space. The Russians went with pencils.

Offline bwatch

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 16:35:15 »
I would like to make it out this year from British Columbia but only if I get that big Pro-Rated Disability Cheque from CCRA by then.

As for the explosion, I was not at camp then but was in 1969.  I know a few from my old Unit "Black Watch" that were.

As for those two Cadets killed by Lightning. I know a Cadet who lived in Cote-St-Luc who had told me about it and they where his friends. I"m not sure but I think his name as Belanger.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 16:54:04 by bwatch »

Offline rwgill

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2008, 18:09:19 »
BWATCH,

Have you notified the 3 Cadet Leagues?  The Regions?  DCdts?  Many may still be around, just hiding.

Offline cripto136

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 01:54:59 »
My father was there at this time, but you be will lucky if someone respond you, the company "D" was majorly french, 1 platoon English, 2 french. my father was not understand English when the grenade explode. But he have help an English guy that have lost his eye to walk outside, he remember he two white whole at the place of his eyes. He also help the commender to quit the barrack and a guy that every one was walking on him. I am sorry if you don't understand every thing, my English is not so good whit the past tense.

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 16:43:14 »
The following information is also available on the Black WATCH meet and greet site.
Sorry, that your father became a young adult when he should have enjoyed his young and teenage years, this been said, the memorial parade will be held on the 31 July 2008 at 10.00 Hrs. A reunion is planed for all "D" company cadets as the preparations for the 35 anniversary  July 2009 is being planed. Should you be concerned do not hesitate to contact me: rcmpao@videotron ca, for further discussion { NOTE:  by posting your rant I know that you are concerned)
Charles Gutta

Offline Kyle Burrows

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 22:59:01 »
Nobody is ranting.  The user wished to convey that the company was predominantly francophone and thus may not be very capable with English.
Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility.
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Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2008, 07:26:59 »
I will tread with care; FYI: Valcartier Cadet Camp  “D” Company was designated to be a bilingual company in 1974 as follows, one platoon English, one French, one Bilingual, and is to this day. My difficulties, when a member post a subject on the grenade incident the member should research it first.


Offline ArmyVern

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2008, 17:08:30 »
My father was there at this time, but you be will lucky if someone respond you, the company "D" was majorly french, 1 platoon English, 2 french. my father was not understand English when the grenade explode. But he have help an English guy that have lost his eye to walk outside, he remember he two white whole at the place of his eyes. He also help the commender to quit the barrack and a guy that every one was walking on him. I am sorry if you don't understand every thing, my English is not so good whit the past tense.

I'm going to try to clarify this post for cripto136

He's not slamming anything, nor is he even questioning the make-up of D Coy.

I believe that he is simply stating:

That you may not get a lot of responses, because a lot of the people involved in assisting pers out of the barracks after the incident (including his father) do not speak good english and are francos.

I'm thinking he's suggesting that a post announcing your reunion/memorial "en francais" as well may draw you more responses.



 
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If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2008, 18:19:01 »
I have had a talk with cripto 136 this afternoon at approx 17.00 hrs he is well informed of what has transpired and is helping his father in locating other cadets, I am providing pic's to cripto as we speak, The reunion is posted in both official languish on the Black Watch site here are the two version. Thank you for all your help.

This year Memorial Parade will take
place at 10.00 Hrs on the 31 July
2008 it would be great
>to meet.
>
 >Cette année la parade comomérative aura
  lieu à 10.00 Hrs. le 31 juillet à 10.00 heures
  sa  serait génial de se rencontrées.
>


Charles Gutta MMM, CD.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2008, 18:22:48 »
I have had a talk with cripto 136 this afternoon at approx 17.00 hrs he is well informed of what has transpired and is helping his father in locating other cadets, I am providing pic's to cripto as we speak, The reunion is posted in both official languish on the Black Watch site here are the two version. Thank you for all your help.

This year Memorial Parade will take
place at 10.00 Hrs on the 31 July
2008 it would be great
>to meet.
>
 >Cette année la parade comomérative aura
  lieu à 10.00 Hrs. le 31 juillet à 10.00 heures
  sa  serait génial de se rencontrées.
>


Charles Gutta MMM, CD.

Seen.

Don't be shy.

Here's the link to the Meet & Greet Site topic regarding the Grenade Incident of '74 for those interested:

1974 Valcartier Grenade Explosion / Anniversary (English)

I couldn't find the franco link to post (feel free to post it up though). I actually read through the threads and posts there last night on this topic. Heartbreaking.

ArmyVern
The Milnet.ca Staff
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Offline Yrys

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2008, 18:34:34 »
I've made a thread in french.

Army.ca Forums > Français > Français > Fil de discussion: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Explosion / Anniversaire

1974 Valcartier Grenade Explosion / Anniversaire
Louvre website

"Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind."  Marcel Proust

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2008, 18:36:54 »
I've made a thread in french.

Army.ca Forums > Français > Français > Fil de discussion: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Explosion / Anniversaire

1974 Valcartier Grenade Explosion / Anniversaire

Merci beaucoup pour ça J.!!

 :)
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2008, 19:56:56 »
BWATCH,

Have you notified the 3 Cadet Leagues?  The Regions?  DCdts?  Many may still be around, just hiding.

Cadet Leagues Ottawa and Montreal are advised as DCdts?

Can confirm that six cadets in the Ottawa /  Gatineau area have not made up there minds as of today.

Offline rwgill

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2008, 18:56:59 »
Cadet Leagues Ottawa and Montreal are advised as DCdts?

Can confirm that six cadets in the Ottawa /  Gatineau area have not made up there minds as of today.

DCdts = Director of Cadets.

I have passed on the word.

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2008, 12:00:21 »
Valcartier 1974

My name is Paul Wheeler and I was a cadet corporal instructor with “D” Company at the Valcartier cadet camp in 1974.

I was recently contacted by a fellow cadet NCO from that summer, Gerry Fostaty. He wrote to say that our former CSM Gutta, was trying to compile a list of those who were part of “D” Company that summer to let them know about the yearly memorial parades that happen at Valcartier.

I haven’t spoken with anyone about that summer for over 30 years – it has been inside me like a black cloud in the distance – always there, but safely far away. Hearing from Gerry after all those years, and knowing that there were others that still thought about that terrible summer, was a surprise. I then searched the web for any items about that summer and found the Black Watch web Meet & Greet.

To see the messages posted there by those who were part of “D” Company was quite emotional. There is obviously still much sorrow, confusion, distress and even anger about the explosion that summer and I felt a sense of sadness to see how this event changed the lives of those who were part of our unit. And there was also a sense of comfort in knowing that I was not alone in living with those memories.

After the explosion happened, I kept some notes and newspaper clippings, thinking that they might be useful some day. They have managed to follow me around for all these years and, after reading the questions that some of you had about what happened that summer, I though I would share some of the information and memories that I have.

“D” Company was Valcartier’s bilingual company, made up of cadets from Quebec. There was one mainly English speaking platoon (#10, if I remember correctly), one fairly fluent bilingual platoon (my #11 platoon) and one mainly French-speaking platoon (#12).

On the day in question, Tuesday, July 30, 1974, the bunk beds in #11 Platoon’s barracks were all pushed together to the back of the room to make enough space to house the explosives safety lecture that the “D” company cadets were going to receive. As I remember, there were approximately 70 cadets, four or five cadet NCO’s and two regular force instructors in the barracks. The cadets were all seated on the floor and the two instructors were at the front of the room, near the doorway to the center common/washroom area.

Myself and Marc Slater, another cadet NCO, were seated on the first row of  bunkbeds, immediately behind the seated cadets. The 70 or so cadets that were seated were quite cramped.

The officer that was instructing, Captain Jean-Claude Giroux, and his assistant, Corporal Claude Pelletier, proceeded to speak about the dangers of unexploded ammunition and munitions and started pulling various ‘dummy’ munitions out of a box, showing the cadets what these various munitions actually looked like. After he showed and spoke about each one, he passed it to the cadets who circulated it around the room.

Midway through this presentation, there was a very powerful “boom” and the room immediately filled up with smoke. Marc and I were stunned by the initial explosion and my first thought was that Captain Giroux must have set off some sort of demonstration explosion – it didn’t seem real.

With Marc and I still sitting on the bunkbeds, the next thing I saw were cadets emerging from the smoke – running past us, between the bunks to get to the exit. Most had a strange expression on their faces and there was a high-pitched muted sound that I could hear. It took a second to realize that my hearing had been damaged with the explosion and that the sound I heard was the cadets’ screams as they ran by.

It started to dawn upon us that something terrible had happened and as I looked to the front, the smoke started to clear and I saw many dark shapes on the floor. The smoke continued to drift away and the shapes became bodies – some moving, some not. And my hearing started to come back and, as it did, the noise level got louder and louder. That sound is etched inside – a combination of crying, screams, soft moans, and calls for help.

We stayed in the room and did what we could. There are some images from that time that are still as vivid as they were that day. I won’t describe them other than to say it was a graphic look at death and at dying.

We still weren’t quite sure what had happened and whether there was danger of another explosion. It started to quieten down and there were three or four of us going around the room to look at the injured and dead. This seemed to last for quite a while, but in fact was only probably a minute or two.

The entrance to the common area was suddenly full of people. Looking in to see what had happened. Then there were yells from many asking about medical help, ambulances, but some were unable to comprehend what they were seeing and simply stared at the carnage.

Finally, the ambulances and medical help started arriving and I was able to leave the building and try to find the cadets in my section.

The rest of the day seemed to rush by in some sort of hazy blurr. The remaining cadets of ‘D’ Company were segregated from the others in the camp. We ate separately, marched separately and had little or no contact with others in the camp. As word got around Valcartier about what had happened, we began to notice the stares and hushed conversations from others in the camp.

We spoke quietly among ourselves about who we knew had died, who was injured, and who was missing. As the day wore on and it became apparent how terrible the tragedy was, cadets from our group would break down, start crying or shaking. And the others would comfort them.

 We were moved from the barracks to a separate building – a chapel, I think. There were beds brought in to sleep and the lights turned down. The memories from that night were so very clear. Many of the cadets were unable to sleep. Some needed to talk, some needed to think, and some simply had to weep. There were some who, once sleep came, tossed and turned and mumbled. Some who cried out.

I can remember CSM Charles Gutta, a man we respected and believed to be ‘super-tough’, speaking quietly and gently to one of the distraught cadets in the sleeping area. Trying to comfort him as you would a baby.

And our CO, Colonel Whitelaw, trying to ensure that everyone was comfortable and doing what he could to not make the cadets feel alone, even for an instant. There was a moment that night, when I was watching him and saw him let his guard down for a second and there was such sadness etched across his face.

It was a sleepless night for many of the cadet NCO’s. There was a sense of responsibility for ‘our cadets’ and, at the same time, a sense of helplessness. We talked for a while, then drifted off into our own thoughts.

The days that followed were a jumble of trying to figure out what had happened, trying to contact familes to reassure them and to seek reassurance and trying to move forward from the state of shock we all seemed to be in.

There was an inquiry and all cadets present in the barracks were questioned. It was very upsetting for some and some others became very angry.

In the end, there was an official Coroner’s Inquest and blame was placed on Captain Giroux and three other Armed forces personnel. The coroner also blamed the higher authorities of camp Valcartier, saying that “apathy or detestable routine seem to have fostered a climate of negligence and carelessness”.

It was determined that a box of 19 live green-colored M-61 grenades were being returned from a practice range in the same truck as the box of blue-colored dummy demonstration armaments. The live grenades were being transported in a cardboard box that was too small to hold all 19. Two of the grenades fell out of the box. One of the two grenades was seen mixed yup with the dummy ammunition and returned to the original box. There was no search made by the driver or the warrant officer in charge to see if any other grenades had fallen out of the box and there was no count made of the live grenades to see if any were missing.

When the box of dummy armaments made it to the classroom, both Captain Giroux and Corporal Pelletier assumed that the lone green colored grenade in the box of blue-colored ammunition must have been a ‘dummy’, simply because it was in the same box.

The grenade was passed to the cadets by Captain Giroux and soon after exploded in the hands on Cadet Eric Lloyd.

I stopped following the case after that point and never found out what had happened to those implicated. Frankly, I didn’t want to know anymore. What had happened, happened and I just wanted to get on with my life.

Today, 34 years later, I can look back at the events of that summer without becoming upset. There is just a sense of sadness, quiet sadness, that the lives of such wonderful, young men whom I knew were ended so tragically.

The following are the names of those who died in the Valcartier cadet camp explosion:

Yves Langlois, 15 years old
Pierre Leroux, 14 years old
Eric Lloyd, 14 years old
Othon Mangos, 14 years old
Mario Provencher, 15 years old
Michel Voisard, 14 years old

There were over 30 others injured in the explosion. There was one cadet in particular, Yves Senecal, who suffered brain damage from the blast and his life changed forever. And after looking at the Black Watch web Meet & Greet posted messages, there seems to be a few with suffering from stress disorder and the memories of that fateful day. They are the ones who need our support.

Now that I know about the yearly observation, I am planning to go next year (2009) to the 35th memorial parade. Perhaps this is the opportunity for all of us who were a part of this to come together…

Paul Wheeler

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2008, 10:13:48 »
This is to inform all the readers of this site that the Memorial Parade that is to be held for the deceased cadets of "D" company Cadets Camp Valcartier in 1974 has been now modified to to be held on Saturday the 26 of July at 10.00 hours and not on the Thursday the 31 of July 2008. The committee apologies for the inconvenience that this may cause.

Offline Morris

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2008, 11:39:13 »
Valcartier 1974

My name is Paul Wheeler and I was a cadet corporal instructor with “D” Company at the Valcartier cadet camp in 1974.

Colin Caldwell here. I was sitting about 6 feet away from Lloyd that day. Mangos I believe was directly in front of me. Only luck saved me from serius injury because had the live grenade been in my hands I would have pulled the pin as quickly as anyone else. One of the lads to my left, Vallee I think was about to pull it but was stopped by (and I'm struggling to remember a name...Korean guy) ...? and siad if the pin was loosed he wouldn't get it back up and he would get in trouble...I let that green grenade pass by because I had a dummy that was cut open so I could see the internal works. Soon I got bored of that so I was ready a rather hot love letter one of the boys got....my head was tucked low cause I didn't want to get caught not paying attention. What a ****** up way for a young teenager to spend a summer.

I would sorely want to be at the memorial but I just found out about it today. Instead I will open the Scapa and drink a toast.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 16:26:28 by Morris »

Offline GerryF

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2008, 13:19:44 »
Regarding the reunion that took place on July 26 2008.
 
A memorial parade was held on July 26th 2008 at CFB Valcartier to commemorate those that pass on as a result of the grenade explosion that took place at D Company in the 12 Platoon barrack area on July 30 1974. Below, you will read the thoughts of members present.
 
We have been slowly gathering those of us that were a part of that company, and there were a number of people that were scheduled to be present.  Unfortunately, the camp administration changed the dates of the event a few times with just a few weeks notice and the majority of us could not make it there, although we were represented by a small number. There will be a larger event next year to commemorate the 35th anniversary, and we were going to use this year's event as a walk-through, or rehearsal, for next year. (2009)
 
Besides the changes in dates, this year's event proved to be a disappointment.  There were schedule, timing and communication issues resulting in guests being treated a bit like gatecrashers. 
 
Here are a few comments of members present at this year reunion…
 
"Thirty four years and it seems like it’s not a big deal for the D.G. Ligue des cadet de L’Armée (Québec) putting the memorial together.  It's that they didn't care for us back then and they still don't care today."
 
"For what should have been a serious and respectful day, the events leading up to, during, and afterwards, left a bit of sourness.  What a sad testament to the memory of the deceased and remaining "kids" that the D.G. Ligue des cadets de L’Armée (Québec) showed on Saturday.  Hopefully next year, the D. G. Ligue des cadet de L”Armée will go out of its way to honor these "kids» properly."
 
"The one good thing about the get together, though, it was nice to finally have a face to the names of the people that John has been talking about for awhile. Pleasure meeting everyone."
 
“ …Going back to the location that I had locked away for many years was good for me.  I remember that day like it was yesterday.  Reminiscing with the boys was a good remedy. Seeing them again gave me closure. I would have liked to see more at this event, but next year will be better."


 A disappointment yes, but rehearsals are for working out the bugs, and we will treat this as a learning experience.  We are much better prepared for next year when more of us will be together.
 
With the way the group is growing, we hope to have a substantial representation of our company members there next year.  There are plans, also, to keep everyone informed about the event.  The group is growing 'virtually.'  That is to say, we have been communicating via email.  Some of the members of the group have been able to come together in person to shake hands, but for the most part, we have been communicating from city to city and country to country across the wire.
 
If you are a member of D Company, and would like to take part in next year reunion, be informed, of the progress, or you would like to be in touch with your old friends, we would like to hear from you.  You can post a reply here or email Charles at:
rcmpao@videotron.ca


Offline bwatch

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2008, 23:44:01 »
I was not able to make it myself. I had booked my Vacation already for Sept, made a trip to Dublin Ireland, London England and a side trip to Paris. I even missed our own Black Watch Cadet Reunion for the first time.

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2009, 03:54:18 »
I know that actually we are in 2009. I remember this day like if it was yesyerday. The cadet who died was from ''Corps de Cadets des Fusilliers du Mont-Royal 2802 Dieppe'' in Montreal, Quebec. At this time I was on cie ''B'' in Gagetown, New Brunswick. When we came back to BFC Vakcartier it was the barrack right behind ours. glehner@sympatico.ca

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2009, 19:39:30 »
I just wanted to say thank you for reminding us of this incident. I recall hearing   about it at the time. I was reading about it today here on Milnet and also in the Toronto Star history online. It seems a 7th boy died of his injuriess about two years later.

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2009, 20:31:21 »
Yes, Approx 2 years later; if you go to www.mylosttrails.com, Members story, you will get to read the tribute to D company Cadet Camp Valcartier 1974, post your comment after the read. Thanks Charlie.

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2009, 17:16:58 »
Wow! Talk about memories. Although I was not there in '74 I had been a cadet in "D" Coy as well as a "Cpl Call-out" (the term used then for Staff Instructors) as both a Corporal in '72 and a Sergeant in '73. I had joned the Militia that Fall and was doing Public Duties on Parliament Hill as a young officer in the GGFG the day of the explosion.
I recognize some of the names and remembr Gary Kelso (Black Watch) who was the Platoon officer. Col Whitelaw was, as a Major, the CO of "D" Coy in 73.
I am currently in Haiti with the RCMP and probably won't make the 2009 parade but my thoughts are with you.

Clive M. Law
 
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed.

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2009, 20:01:37 »
Clive M Law

Good evening to you and your comrades in Haiti, just want to say stay safe as you and your comrades are brothers, I retired from the force in 1996 and never looked back, your mesg. has been sent out to all members of D company 1974 and I am sure that some will remember you.

Regards.


Charles
rcmpao@videotron.ca

Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2009, 20:10:13 »
Mesg for Clive from David Huddleson

Do you have any contact information for Clive Law, who wrote that note?  I know him from here in Ottawa (about 15 years ago), but not from the Cadets. I would like to contact him. 

As previously stated here is a member that would like to have news of you.

Charles
rcmpao@videotron.ca


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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2009, 20:16:27 »
Clive, Here is David e-mail Add. dhuddleson@sympatico.ca send him some news and were he can contact you don't forget to send me your e-mail add. as well

Charles rcmpao@videotron.ca

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2009, 17:25:53 »
The 35 th annual Memorial Ceremony for our fallen cadets in 1974 will be held on the 30 July 2009 at 10.00 hours. at the Canadian Army Cadet training Centre - Valcartier, Québec, Canada.

For information on this activity contact Charles at rcmpao@videotron.ca

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2009, 12:51:11 »
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Like+black+cloud/1843403/story.html




'Like a black cloud'
 
In July 1974, a 'dummy' grenade exploded, killing six young soldiers.; The event is being marked as 'the worst tragedy in the history of the cadets'
 
Former cadets reunite to recall 1974 grenade blast

By ANDREW HALFNIGHT, The Gazette


Thursday, July 30th, 2009 | 1:30 am

Canwest News Service

MONTREAL – At 1:30 p.m. on July 30, 1974, an instructor at the Valcartier cadet camp passed out what he believed were “dummy” grenades to 130 teenagers for a lecture on bomb safety.

Cadet Eric Lloyd, 14, was seated near the front when he pulled the pin from an M61 anti-personnel grenade.

Today, 35 years after six boys were killed and more than 40 people were injured at the camp north of Quebec City, the explosion is still remembered by Canadian Forces officers as “the worst tragedy in the history of the cadets.”

For the young cadets of D Company who were there, the blast is not just “history” – it haunts them to this day.

Former platoon Sgt. Charles Gutta, 70, was in the room when the blast went off. He has suffered symptoms of stress for decades but only recently confronted his memories.

“I just carried on,” he said in a telephone interview Wednesday.

In early 2008, Gutta embarked on a mission to reconnect with survivors of the blast using “411, Facebook, the Internet, word of mouth.”

He spoke to 57 survivors and was surprised to find many were still struggling with post-traumatic stress.

Paul Wheeler, a former instructor at the camp, posted his testimony online.

“I haven’t spoken with anyone about that summer for over 30 years,” he wrote. “It has been inside me like a black cloud in the distance.”

Gutta’s months of work will culminate at 10 a.m. Thursday when at least 35 members of D Company from across Canada and dozens of family and friends will assemble to honour the dead and finally grieve together at Valcartier’s annual remembrance ceremony.

Platoon Sgt. Gerry Fostaty was also in the barracks that day. He recalled how little counselling was offered to the teenage survivors after the blast.

“It was business as usual at the camp for the next three weeks,” he said. “Even our parents didn’t really know what happened. Then once we left, we were gone. We were on our own. Nobody ever said, `How are you?’ ”

Speaking in a room animated with the chatter of reunited cadets, Fostaty said many survivors have been suffering in silence for decades.

“Most of these guys have not spoken to their families about this. It’s just too painful.”

A coroner found authorities at Valcartier were to blame, saying that “apathy or detestable routine seem to have fostered a climate of negligence and carelessness.”

Maj. Carlo Deciccio, public relations officer for the cadet program, said the memorial service will be a learning opportunity for the camp’s 1,300 teenage cadets.

Deciccio said the camps no longer offers any kind of course on explosives.

The victims who will be remembered Thursday along with Lloyd are: Yves Langlois, 15; Pierre Leroux, 14; Othon Mangos, 14; Mario Provencher, 15; and Michel Voisard, 14.

Montreal Gazette

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette




Platoon Sgt. Gerry Fostaty (far left, with clipboard) with members of D Company. "It was business as usual at the camp for the next three weeks," Fostaty said. "Even our parents didn't really know what happened"
Photograph by: ., Photo Courtesy of Gerry Fostaty





dileas

tess
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Offline Chuck_Beattie

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2010, 22:16:30 »
Suggest you try the armycadethistory.com web site. I had friends from my cadet corps at the incident. A very tragic accident. Chuck Beattie MWO (Retd)

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2010, 22:28:53 »
On our BMQ course in 2008, one of the OSIS volunteers, teaching us about stress injuries and PTSD was telling us about this incident as he was there.  It, was to him, the first step down the long slide into PTSD.  Unfortunately I cannot recall his name.

Offline bwatch

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2010, 00:54:08 »
From the first day I posted this notice to help the CSM and the one on the Black Watch site, I have to this day, still been thinking about all of you guys and praying that you all stay strong. I know it is not easy to do, but it is something you need to do so you can help your Brother when he is down. I'm still here, just not as much as I use to be, but I still have an ear that is still willing to listen and if any of you do with to talk, I have no problem giving any of you my phone number.  If any of you are in Vancouver Nov 11th, I'm on the Color Party with the Commissionaires and I'm going to be in my Papa Smerf Uniform in the Santa Clause Parade and that should be fun.  By the way, the Seaforths Mace was stolen.

Offline JMesh

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2011, 21:49:53 »
Thought this was the best place to post this. From CTV:

Quote
Military cadets still want apology 37 years after explosion
Link

Dozens of military cadets injured at CFB Valcartier in 1974 are fighting for compension, and a formal apology, 37 years after a grenade went off in a classroom.

The blast killed six cadets and injured 54 others, and the survivors did not talk about the incident until a reunion two years ago.

That sparked a book by Gerry Fostaty and several others, and a movement for an official apology.

A horrible oversight


In July 1974 a room full of 14 and 15-year-old boys were attending a lecture on ammunition.

Eric Maura and John Hannon were in the classroom, and they were told the box of M-61 hand grenades at the front of the class was not live ammunition.

The difference was easy to spot.

"Dummies are supposed to be all blue," Hannon said. "A real ammunition, grenade or mortar live ammunition is green."

One of the grenades in the box was green.

"I clearly saw a live grenade," said Maura. "I didn't realize it was live at the time but it was different than the rest being pulled out."

Some cadets questioned how the green grenade got in the box but no one seemed worried, and one cadet asked how it worked.

Then he pulled the pin.

"He had it in between his legs and basically when the thing went off if he took a good impact himself," said Hannon. "I think Eric did save a few lives. God bless his soul."

More at link
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 21:56:38 by JMesh »

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2011, 21:55:06 »
and they deserve an apology.
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“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline bwatch

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2011, 04:49:15 »
Such an awfull mistake. I hope it's one that will never be made again.  If it don't look right, question it. If you don't like the answer, ask someone else.

Offline HFXCrow

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2011, 19:13:18 »
Enjoying the ride and doesn't want to get off

Offline bwatch

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2011, 19:45:52 »
 I felt so bad when I found out about it and posted it on the Black Watch Guest Book. I was at Valcartier in 69 and learned how to tell a dummy from live.  It is so bad that so many mistakes had been made and some of them I'm sorry to say where preventable.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 22:47:54 by bwatch »

Offline Pugsley

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2011, 12:03:43 »
just found an interesting link

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10148751-as-you-were

I bought that book a couple of weeks ago.  Quite an interesting read.  I recommend it.

Offline Ammo

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2012, 15:11:49 »
Another book "La Grenade Verte - Valcartier 1974: les oublies de la compagnie D" par Hugo Fontaine is also available for reading but obviously is EN FRANCAIS and is written by a journalist. Hugo Fontaine is passionate of military history and investigations/inquiries. This is his 1st book
(Les Editions La Presse) ISBN 9782923681818
http://www.renaud-bray.com/Livres_Produit.aspx?id=1203785&def=Grenade+verte(La)%2CFONTAINE%2C+HUGO%2C9782923681818


Offline Charly Gutta

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2012, 18:43:22 »
February
Février        14, 2012

MEMBERS OF D COMPANY  TO BE LOCATED; for the July 2014, Reunion

MEMBRES DE LA COMPAGNIE D A LOCALISER;  pour la réunioon de Juillet, 2014

Ian Ross Anderson,    Gilles Blanchette, Guy Bouthillier, Luc Bouchard, Randall (Randy) Brooks, Jacques Bérubé       Robert Beaudin, Sylvain Benoit, Daniel Croisetière, Denis Carbonneau,    Michel Cadieu, Alain Couture      
Bernard D’Auteuil, Denis Déry, Jacques Demers, Patrick Duguay, Marc Deschenes, André Desjardins   
Paul Doucet, Sven Engles, Fernand Gosslin, Michel Gaudreault, Vincent Gaiens, Jean Guy Hachey   
Guy Hamel, Peter Edward Harper, Rollin Hughes, William Jeffrey Hunter, Jean Huot  Mario Loiselle   
Pierre Loiselle, Benoit Langevin, André Latourelle, Jean Pierre Lebrasseur, Daniel Lapierre
René Légaré, Roger Morin, Guy Metcalf, Pierre Migneault, Alex Noreau,    Michel Ouellet, Jacques Oliveau    
Alain Ouelette, Michel Parizeau, Thiery Restonex, Jimmy Reggler, Daniel Rousselle, Harold (Foster) Scott   
François Saumur, Philip Michele Shun, Pierre Trudel, Edward Vaille, Jean Pierre Verreault, Michael Wade      
André Vaillancourt, Cpl Bahadur Bansal, Cpl Serge Plante, Sgt Daniel Seguin, Sgt Robert Gibeault
Raymond Perreault, Paul Charbonneau: TOTAL 61

SEND YOUR EMAIL TO:                         rcmpao@bell.net
FAITE PARVENIR VOTRE COURRIEL A:
                      


Offline FormerHorseGuard

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2013, 22:52:59 »
see this link
http://www.cornwallseawaynews.com/Living/2013-05-09/article-3242233/Military-survivors-of-PTSD-debuting-new-film-project/1


saw the story on line and remembered reading the stories here, might be of some interest to those who were there or have memories of it


sorry for the bad typing one hand,  other hand in cast,  and cracked ribs......make for even less skilled typing than usual

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2013, 07:58:14 »
Thanks for the link to the story (above). I wish I could be at the premiere of the film. I know other members of D Company 1974 would want to be there too. I only hope this documentary film gets a further reach in the next little while. 
Gerry Fostaty (Sgt)
10 Platoon, D Coy, CFB Valcartier 1974

Offline Greythunders

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2013, 21:10:16 »
http://www.lapresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/justice-et-faits-divers/200907/29/01-888354-drame-de-valcartier-comme-si-cetait-hier.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_vous_suggere_888353_article_POS1

Maybe that in english we can't find more informations about this drama, but in French it have more articles about, and maybe that you can translate it with google translate if you want... As the BFC Valcartier is in the Québec, I think that you have more chances to find if you search " explosion au camp des cadets de Valcartier"...

At each year in the Valcartier Cadets Camp, we have a remember parade, and we take one minute of silence for this cadets who are died in this circumstances. The commemorative plate on the parade square is always there, same that the rock near that D and B Coy.

We always remember...  :cdn:

( An article said that in 2009, Mr. Gutta managed to trace fifty former cadets, a total of 131)

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Offline bwatch

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2014, 10:58:33 »
Note to all of you. Watch your e-mail for a scam. This person says they have a donation for us and looking for banking info to deposit it. They give the dates of the blast and the location. Don't give the person any info.

Offline Vuhlkansu

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Re: 1974 Camp Valcartier Grenade Blast Memorial
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2014, 13:21:15 »
Here is another article about it.

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=871839
Air Cadet Historian/Collector

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This from the Ombudsman:
Quote
The Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces (DND/CF), Mr. Gary Walbourne, released his report today into the treatment of Army Cadets affected by a deadly grenade explosion which occurred at a Canadian Forces Base Valcartier (Quebec) cadet summer camp on 30 July 1974.
 
The incident claimed the lives of six cadets aged between 14 and 15 and injured dozens more.

(....)

The Ombudsman’s Office found that of the cadets who survived the explosion, many sustained – and continue to suffer from – physical or/and psychological injuries; however, the cadets did not receive assistance on par with what was offered to the military members who were also impacted by the incident.

The report concludes that it goes against the principle of fairness to provide assistance, compensation and benefits to one group of individuals and to ignore the other, and states that the Canadian Forces and the Department of National Defence should have done more to assist the young boys who were under their care.

The Ombudsman therefore recommends that:

    Under the authority of the Minister of National Defence, the Department of National Defence immediately offer assessments to all those who claim to have been adversely or permanently affected by this incident to determine the physical and psychological care required and, based on these assessments, fund a reasonable care plan; and
     
    Following the full assessment and definition of the long-term needs of the affected individuals, and in order to ensure that they are treated in a way that reflects Canadian values, it is recommended that the Department of National Defence, under the direction of the Minister, award them an immediate and reasonable financial compensation in line with jurisprudence in similar situations ....

This from the Defence Minister:
Quote
“The accidental explosion of a grenade at the Cadet Training Centre in CFB Valcartier in 1974 was a tragedy that hurt both victims and their families. This matter is important to the Government of Canada, which is why my predecessor, The Honourable Rob Nicholson, authorized an investigation into this incident by the Ombudsman.

    “On behalf of the Government of Canada, I regret the effect this event has had on the victims and their families. The review by the Ombudsman confirms that more could have been done and I have accepted the Ombudsman’s recommendations.

    “I recognize that those who directly witnessed or were injured in this accident may still be suffering and I am committed to ensuring that they get the help they need. I have therefore directed the Department of National Defence, in line with the Ombudsman’s recommendations, to offer assessments to all those who have been affected by this incident to determine the physical and psychological care they require. Based on these assessments, we will ensure that the affected individuals have access to health care and compensation, where appropriate.

    “I thank the Ombudsman for reviewing this matter in greater detail and for recommending how we can better assist those affected by this incident. I regret that it took 41 years to formally recognize and fully address this tragedy and I hope that the action we are taking in response to the Ombudsman’s recommendations will give the victims and their families some measure of comfort.”

This from the VCDS:
Quote
“Forty one years ago, an accidental grenade explosion at the Cadet Training Centre in CFB Valcartier killed six cadets and wounded dozens more while they were gathered for a lecture in one of the barracks. The effects of this tragedy forever changed the lives of the cadets and instructors present at the time, as well as the families of the fallen and injured. It resulted in significant changes in the way we deliver the Cadet Program.

    “Today, following direction from the Minister of National Defence, we are taking immediate action on the Ombudsman’s recommendations to ensure that victims get the care they deserve. The Canadian Armed Forces is fully committed to supporting this effort through the development and implementation of a framework for assessment and care and immediately reaching out to those who have been affected by this incident. In addition to our efforts to make contact and provide information, through social media and other means, we encourage all those who believe they have been affected by this incident to contact us at 1-844-800-8566 or 1974@forces.gc.ca.

    “Today's cadets participate in a wide range of citizenship, leadership, and physical fitness activities in a safe and supervised environment. Their welfare is our first priority. A far greater network of support and resources is now available to cadets, their instructors, and families in the case of traumatic events or an accident.

    “We take the responsibility to protect the young people in our care very seriously—this is paramount in any cadet activity. We deeply regret and will never forget the tragic event in Valcartier. We will remember those we lost, and care for the survivors and those who continue to suffer.”
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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2015, 07:37:20 »
Some of the latest:
Quote
For Charles Gutta, Tuesday’s release of the military ombudsman’s report into the fatal accident at CFB Valcartier’s cadet summer camp 41 years ago marked the end of a long, personal mission.

The sergeant in the regular army was in overall charge of the camp on July 30, 1974, and had left the 156 cadets in the care of munitions specialists, who were teaching the teenage boys how to identify various explosives.

After assurances one grenade was harmless, a cadet pulled the pin. Six died and 65 others were injured, many permanently. A few fought for, and got, limited compensation, but most didn’t.

“I was always told, from the time I was a trooper until the rank of sergeant, that if anything happens to you, the army will take care of you,” Gutta, 76, told the Ottawa Citizen soon after reading the report of Gary Walbourne, the Department of National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces ombudsman.

“When this tragedy happened,” he added, “I thought ‘I’m not worried, I will be cared for and the cadets will be cared for and life carries on.’ But 34 years later, in 2008, I discovered that nothing had been done for these kids.

“So I started listening to their stories on social media and that’s what got me going. I thought, ‘I have to do something about this.’ ”

“Inexcusable” is how Walbourne described the Canadian Forces’ treatment of the injured cadets and their families.

In his report released Tuesday, he urged National Defence to correct the injustice and give survivors the medical and financial care they deserve but have been denied for four decades.

Defence Minister Jason Kenney issued a statement soon afterward agreeing to all Walbourne’s recommendations, and offering psychological and physical assessments for all those affected.

“Based on these assessments, we will ensure that the affected individuals have access to health care and compensation, where appropriate,” he said.

“I regret that it took 41 years to formally recognize and fully address this tragedy.” ....
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2015, 11:40:00 »
The Green Grenade

The National | Jul 15, 2015 | 19:06

Seeking justice for deadly 1974 Valcartier explosion

In 1974, a live grenade killed six young cadets at a summer camp. Decades later, families and survivors are still searching for justice.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20Shows/The%20National/ID/2671768713/

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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, ValCartier 1974
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2015, 06:30:09 »
An update from the office of the CF Ombudsman:
Quote
On July 28, 2015 I released a report into the treatment of Army Cadets affected by a deadly grenade explosion which occurred at a Cadet Summer Camp on Canadian Armed Forces Base Valcartier, Quebec in July 1974.

The report focussed on the treatment of those cadets affected by the deadly explosion which killed six and injured dozens.

I made two recommendations to the Minister of National Defence and Department of National Defence. Both were accepted.

Tangible steps which have been taken since my report was released include the following:
  • Two of the key individuals involved in bringing the impact of the incident to the attention of my office were briefed by senior members of the Canadian Armed Forces on the practical measures to be immediately undertaken to help affected cadets. This was done the morning of my report’s release.
  • The Canadian Armed Forces has developed a screening tool that can be used by family physicians to determine the medical needs of those impacted.
  • The Canadian Armed Forces has appointed a Case Manager, who will now be responsible for managing medical assessments and the way forward in assisting the impacted individuals.
I am pleased to report that the Canadian Armed Forces has made good progress on connecting with former cadets and Canadian Armed Forces members who may have been impacted by the incident.   

On the day of the incident, D Company had 155 members: 135 cadets and 20 staff cadets and officers.  To date, the Canadian Armed Forces and former cadets themselves have been unable to locate an additional 25 former cadets who were likely impacted by the incident.

If you are a survivor of the 1974 incident, or know someone who may have been affected, please call the Canadian Armed Forces help line at 1-844-800 8566 or email 1974@forces.gc.ca ...
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Re: Grenade explosion Incident, Valcartier 1974
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2016, 09:28:07 »
Bumped with the latest from VCDS, just out yesterday - highlights mine:
Quote
“On July 30, 1974, tragedy struck at the CFB Valcartier cadet training centre when a live grenade found its way into a bin of inert training grenades. The live grenade exploded, causing the deaths of six cadets and injuring dozens more.

“The Department of National Defence (DND) and the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) recognize that those affected by this horrific tragedy have struggled with the long-term effects of the trauma they experienced and regret that it took this long to formally recognize and address this tragedy.

“In public statements issued on July 28, 2015 we indicated that we would be taking action further to the DND/CAF Ombudsman's investigative report into the incident.

“Since that time and over a number of months now, DND and the CAF have been in contact and in discussions with victims of this tragic event and their representatives regarding their health care needs and expectations with respect to financial recognition. Significant progress has been made in addressing the Ombudsman's recommendations.

“As a first step, we immediately began efforts to make contact with all those affected. Medical needs assessments were offered to all affected individuals that had been located to identify their health care needs, both physical and psychological, that are connected to this tragedy, and we continue to receive responses.

“Based on these assessments, the next step will be to develop individualized treatment plans to identify areas of their care where more support is needed — and some of this work is already underway.

“Concurrently, DND has also been engaged in determining suitable financial recognition. This has included a review of compensation in line with jurisprudence in similar situations, as recommended by the Ombudsman in his 2015 report.

“Our work is ongoing and is being done in collaboration with the victims of this terrible tragedy and their representatives. The Minister of National Defence has met with them to discuss our collective progress. We remain focused on ensuring that the health care needs of victims are met, and that they receive the recognition they deserve for their pain and suffering.

“We continue to urge all those who believe they have been affected by this incident to contact us at 1-844-800-8566 or 1974@forces.gc.ca.”
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

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This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #61 on: September 03, 2016, 07:16:51 »
Further info on the CBC website today.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cadets-grenade-accident-compensation-1.3746700

And here's the Order-in-Council:
Quote
PC Number: 2016-0647
Date: 2016-06-21

His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of National Defence, authorizes the Minister of National Defence to make ex gratia payments for the provision of health care services in relation to the treatment of injuries sustained by the following individuals as a result of the grenade explosion which occurred on July 30, 1974 at the Canadian Forces Base Valcartier Cadet Camp:

(a) any cadet who was in the room when the explosion occurred; and

(b) any non-professional first responder who, on that day, was not a member of the Canadian Armed Forces and was involved immediately following the explosion.


Sur recommandation du ministre de la Défense nationale, Son Excellence le Gouverneur général en conseil autorise le ministre de la Défense nationale à verser, à titre gracieux, des paiements pour la fourniture de services de soins de santé reliés au traitement des blessures subies par les personnes ci-après résultant de l’explosion d’une grenade, le 30 juillet 1974, au Camp des cadets de la Base des Forces armées canadiennes Valcartier :

a) les cadets qui se trouvaient dans la salle au moment de l’explosion;

b) les premiers répondants non professionnels qui, à cette date, n’étaient pas membres des Forces armées canadiennes et ont été impliqués immédiatement après l’explosion.
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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2017, 06:24:48 »
Nothing yet, as of this post, at the DND/CF Ombudsman's site, but this from The Canadian Press via CBC.ca:
Quote
The Canadian Forces ombudsman is taking the military to task for its treatment of ill and injured cadets, saying little has changed since a deadly grenade explosion at a cadet camp in 1974.

In a report to be released Thursday, ombudsman Gary Walbourne says the military must do more to ensure cadets who suffer long-term injuries or illness while in uniform get similar levels of support and compensation as their instructors and other service members.

That isn't currently the case, says the report — cadet instructors and serving military personnel are eligible for large disability payments and other supports that cadets themselves are unable to access.

"Overall, we found that Canadian cadets, although treated fairly following minor incidents, are not treated on par with Canadian Armed Forces members or civilians involved in cadet activities when it comes to compensation for serious, life-changing injuries and illness," says the report ...
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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2017, 09:26:33 »
Nothing yet, as of this post, at the DND/CF Ombudsman's site, but this from The Canadian Press via CBC.ca:

This has the potential to make Cadets an exceedingly expensive enterprise for the Govt of Canada does it not? 
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2017, 10:21:50 »
This has the potential to make Cadets an exceedingly expensive enterprise for the Govt of Canada does it not?
Only if they get hurt and the system does what some consider the right thing.

Or a real cynic with no faith in the system might even suggest a New Cadets Charter  >:D

BTW, here's a link to the Bud'man's report (also attached in case link doesn't work), and here's the Executive Summary:
Quote
In December 2015, our Office launched a systemic review of the Canadian Cadet Program to identify any issues of unfairness that might arise should a cadet be seriously injured or killed during an approved Cadet activity. This review set out to determine what cadets (and/or their families) would be entitled to, and the process to access those entitlements.

    It assesses similarities and differences in the benefits offered to people involved in cadet or youth activities:
    Canadian Armed Forces members and employees of National Defence;
    cadets from allied countries comparable to Canada; and
    members of other Canadian youth organizations.

We also looked at Canadian federal and provincial insurance and benefit schemes to see if or how they compensate ill and injured youth.

Overall, we found that Canadian cadets, although treated fairly following minor incidents, are not treated on par with Canadian Armed Forces members or civilians involved in cadet activities when it comes to compensation for serious, life-changing injuries and illnesses.

We also found that information on how to access Canadian cadet health care entitlements is not readily available, and the process is not well understood.

Our review concludes that when it comes to access to long-term care and compensation, not much has changed since the 1974 Valcartier grenade incident. More needs to be done to support our most vulnerable participants of the Cadet Program.

With this in mind, our Office has made the following four recommendations to the Minister of National Defence:

    1)  We recommend that, in the event of an illness or injury arising out of an approved cadet activity, the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces ensure that cadets are compensated and supported in a manner that is commensurate with the compensation and support available to members of the Canadian Armed Forces.
    2)  With regard to the general availability of information on cadet entitlements, we recommend that the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces complete the following activities in time for summer training 2017:
        a) Amalgamate information on cadets’ health care entitlements and Cadet League accident insurance policies and the process to access them;
        b) Provide this information to all those in charge of supervising cadets;
        c) Ensure compliance with the process;
        d) Publish the same detailed information on the Internet; and
        e) Include the same detailed information in documents provided to cadets and their families.
    3) As part of the next annual review of the accident insurance policies of the Cadet Leagues, we recommend that the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces ensure that the benefits are identical across the three Cadet Leagues.
    4) We recommend that the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces conduct necessary consultations and institute policies and procedures regarding Staff Cadets’ possible entitlements to compensation in case of illness or injury arising from their duties.
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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2017, 13:42:07 »
Government settles with cadets in deadly 1974 grenade blast in Valcartier
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/valcartier-grenade-cadets-1.4017327
The Canadian Press  Posted: Mar 09, 2017 12:08 PM ET| Last Updated: Mar 09, 2017 1:05 PM ET
Quote
The federal government has reached a settlement with 120 former military cadets who were affected by a deadly grenade explosion more than 40 years ago.

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan will today announce details of the agreement, which comes after years of negotiation.

A grenade exploded at a cadet summer camp in Valcartier, Que., in 1974, killing six teens and leaving dozens of others with lifelong physical and psychological injuries.

The incident, largely forgotten by most Canadians, gained new prominence several years ago when military ombudsman Gary Walbourne issued a scathing report that said the surviving cadets had been treated unfairly.

Walbourne found the cadets did not get the same physical, mental or financial assistance as instructors and other military personnel.

The ombudsman issued a separate report in January that found even today, cadets injured or killed while in uniform do not get adequate support or benefits.

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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2017, 15:40:24 »
More from the Info-machine:
Quote
Defence Minister Harjit S. Sajjan today announced a comprehensive program of financial recognition and health care support for the victims of the 1974 accidental grenade explosion at the CFB Valcartier cadet camp.

The Department of National Defence (DND) and the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) recognize that those affected by this terrible tragedy have struggled with the long-term effects on their health of the trauma they experienced and regret that it took this long to formally recognize and address this tragedy.

In recognition of their pain and suffering, all former cadets in the room at the time of the explosion and non-professional first responders involved immediately after the explosion will be provided with a universal benevolent payment. Victims are also eligible to apply for an individualized benevolent payment for both physical and mental injuries sustained as a result of the incident. Estates of the cadets who tragically perished in the incident and of the victims who have passed away since are also eligible to apply for elements of the program. In addition, all incident-related health care costs, not funded by provincial health care systems, for former cadets in the room at the time of the explosion and non-professional first responders involved immediately after the explosion will be covered by DND and the CAF for the remainder of their lifetime.

Quotes

    “The cadets and families affected by this incident were the victims of a tragic and unique set of circumstances. These former cadets were under our care at the time and some have struggled – and continue to struggle to this day – with the long-term effects of the trauma they experienced and the actions taken by the military in the aftermath of the incident. For this, we sincerely apologize. The financial recognition and health care support we are announcing today are long overdue, and will ensure that the victims are finally offered some measure of comfort, while getting the care they need and deserve.”
     
    Harjit S. Sajjan, Defence Minister

    “We want to ensure that the victims of this past tragic incident are well taken care of and are recognized for the pain and suffering they endured. As a result of this incident, the Cadet Program underwent significant changes. I can assure you that the Canadian Armed Forces takes its responsibility to protect the youth in its care very seriously, and the first priority in all cadet activities is the safety and welfare of cadets.”

    Vice-Admiral Ron Lloyd, Acting Vice Chief of the Defence Staff

    DND and the CAF continue to urge former cadets who were in the room at the time of the explosion and non-professional first responders involved immediately after the explosion to contact us at 1-844-800-8566 or 1974@forces.gc.ca.

Quick Facts

    On July 30, 1974, an accidental grenade explosion killed six cadets and injured dozens more at the CFB Valcartier cadet camp. In July 2015, the Minister of National Defence committed to ensuring that affected individuals would have access to health care and compensation, where appropriate.

    The development of the program was informed in large part by discussions with victims of this incident and their representatives, with the intent of coming to a mutually acceptable program for affected individuals.

    In recognition of their pain and suffering, all cadets in the room at the time of the explosion and non-professional first responders who were involved immediately after the explosion will be provided with a universal benevolent payment of $42,000. It is estimated that approximately 155 individuals will be eligible for the payment. Estates of the six cadets who tragically perished in the incident and of those who have passed away in the years since are also eligible to apply for this benevolent payment.

    In recognition of loss, an additional benevolent payment of $58,000 will be provided to the estates of the six deceased cadets– for a total of $100,000 for each of the six estates.

    Affected individuals are also eligible to apply for an individualized benevolent payment for both physical and mental injuries sustained as a result of the incident. This payment will be determined based on individual circumstances, up to a maximum of $310,000 (including the universal benevolent payment).

    The estates of former cadets who have passed away in the years since the incident are also eligible to apply for this payment.

    Additionally, to ensure that the health care needs of those affected by this terrible tragedy are met, DND and the CAF are paying for all necessary incident-related health care costs incurred by affected individuals, not funded by provincial health care systems, for the remainder of their lifetime.

    Peer support and resiliency training is also being offered to those who wish to receive additional services from the CAF and extended to their spouses and children. Reasonable travel expenses will be reimbursed in the event that travel is required to take part in these sessions.
Full info-machine package (including news release, backgrounder & FAQ's) also attached.
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Re: 1974 Valcartier Grenade Deaths (gov't action, memorial, etc.)
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2019, 19:23:10 »
One of the cadets receives his final payment.

Ottawa Citizen

Quote
'I deserve more,' says cadet awarded $310,000 in deadly '74 grenade blast
KELLY EGAN   Updated: February 6, 2019

An Ottawa man has been awarded $310,000 for the life-altering damage caused when a grenade exploded in a deadly accident at a cadet camp in CFB Valcartier in 1974.

Randall Brooks, 59, received a cheque for $268,000 last week, the second instalment in a special program announced in 2017 to compensate about 150 teenagers who were inside barracks at a summer camp when the live grenade exploded during a demonstration on munitions.

Only 14 at the time and standing about an arm’s length from the blast, Brooks was struck with shrapnel in his upper chest, leg, hip and abdomen and endured four surgeries in 18 hours just to help keep him alive.

“I have to be honest, I have mixed feelings,” he said this week of being compensated by the Department of National Defence almost 45 years later. “I feel that I deserve more. It’s only half the equation.”

more at link
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