Author Topic: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War  (Read 48704 times)

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Offline Willy

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2007, 01:20:09 »
This isn't new- the UVSS banned the military from the SUB previously.  I think it was in around 2000 or 2001.  I was a student at UVic at the time.  There was a real furor over the fact that recruiters had brought in some swag to display, including dummy munitions and/or inert weapons.

I don't really care what the UVSS thinks.  Let them have their tempest in a teapot.  The SUB is their building, they can do what they want with it.  Maybe I would be more upset if I thought a recruiting drive at UVic stood a snowball's chance in hell of attracting some applicants, but having worked at them in the past I doubt that they will- a leper colony would draw a better crowd in that place.  Maybe I would also be more upset if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell of reasoning with UVic in general/the UVSS in particular, but I really don't.  This is just the way it is at UVic, and I don't have it in me to get worked up over it anymore.

Offline van Gemeren

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2007, 01:26:14 »
I never seen stuff like this here North Bay. Military personal come in all the time in their Cadpat and take courses at the university. They have always been welcome at the job fairs and nobody seems to say anything about it.

The student union here has enough trouble keeping itself together let alone pass policy statements. In the 4, going on 5 years I've been here, the elected president has never served a full term of a year. Durring the melt down (in fighting) last year the University did not step in because the student union is a separate entity from them and does not intervene as policy.
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Offline Scott-Payne

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2007, 10:25:39 »
Some of the rather inflamatory statements made in the article really remind me of statements made by racists.  A lot of hatred, with very little/no truth, no logic, and justification for their own inappropriate actions (ie. it was important to ban the military from recruiting because some students are ignorant about the issues.).  I wonder if some of them are Anti-Dentites as well.  :)
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2007, 10:31:49 »
Why complain?

This just means we can allocate more recruiters to elementry school. This way we can nab the kiddies before the university prof's begin *their* brain washing.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2007, 11:08:44 »
>“A lot of students don’t know about the issues and don’t know about the facts,” she said. “We have to make this decision for students.”

Apparently the council doesn't realize the council membership falls into the set of people who don't know about the issues.  Regardless, it's amusing that they have appropriated to themselves the right to act in loco parentis for adults.  The student body of UVic is, apparently, composed mostly of children - especially the graduating 22 (or so) year-olds who would be the people primarily interested in the job fair.

If the UVSS is correct - that the students are ignorant - we must question whether the students' judgement can be trusted on any other issue.  They might not know about the issues or know the facts.
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Offline Greymatters

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2007, 14:00:13 »
>“A lot of students don’t know about the issues and don’t know about the facts,” she said. “We have to make this decision for students.”

Apparently the council doesn't realize the council membership falls into the set of people who don't know about the issues.  Regardless, it's amusing that they have appropriated to themselves the right to act in loco parentis for adults.  The student body of UVic is, apparently, composed mostly of children - especially the graduating 22 (or so) year-olds who would be the people primarily interested in the job fair.

If the UVSS is correct - that the students are ignorant - we must question whether the students' judgement can be trusted on any other issue.  They might not know about the issues or know the facts.

Based on that kind of logic, then these same students should not be allowed to vote, or drive, or drink alcohol, or get married or handle their own finances.  And any consequences of their past votes should be null and void - including SVSS election results...

Really, what drivel.  If these guys actually provided any 'facts' instead of paranoid accusations, then the students would be informed.

Offline BC Old Guy

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2007, 14:14:18 »
Quote
Who cares if the CF is not welcome there.  It is their loss anyway.

Actually - I care. Part of my job is to provide accurate information to people that are making employment decisions - especially for themselves.  The UVic website notes that it has 19,475 students enrolled.  Out of that many, I would normally expect to get 4 enrolments, which requires 12-15 people applying.

I think that out of that number of students at UVic that there are 15 or more people who would do well in the military.  So now we have to consider -  how do we let these people know that the military is a viable career choice?

Interesting tactical problem.

Offline Max Flinch

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2007, 14:17:57 »
This is typical of what the UVSS has been up to at least since I was at UVic from 89 - 93, so it's nothing new. I must applaud the Marxist - I mean, the Martlet, for reporting what appears to be pretty neutral account of the event. That's a change since I was there. They used to be to the UVSS what Pravda was to the Central Committee in the old USSR.

I just have to shake my head at the reasoning. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." They are banning the military because of things that they assert they don't know about, have never heard of, but are sure that exist. The assumption that if you don't agree with their viewpoint, you must therefore be to stupid to form your own opinions, seems to be the basis for the reasoning of a lot of issues on the agenda of people in this area of the political spectrum. That said, it only bans the military from recruiting in the Student Union Building, correct? That's an awfully small part of a big campus.

During the first Gulf War, when Canadian ships were in the Gulf, there were people about who were gleaning names from the newspaper of serving members, then phoning their spouses to say, "This is Major so-and-so, and your husbands been killed. We'll let you know more later." Some of the members of UVSS at the time were quoted as supporting this kind of behaviour, because it was that kind of a tactic that was needed to make all members of the military community realize how wrong the war was. "No blood for oil, blah blah blah." These people and their ilk forget that Hitler was a socialist, and that many of the ways they see as legitimate strategies have some nasty parallels in history.

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2007, 15:01:19 »
One of the directors that was absent from that meeting is making a motion at Monday's UVSS meeting to overturn that Sept 10 motion.  The motion will be this:

"WHEREAS UVic students have the right to evaluate all career options and points of view;
and WHEREAS the UVSS has no right to censor the information that is provided to UVic students;
and WHEREAS the decision to ban the Canadian Armed Forces from the SUB has caused considerable outrage in the Campus Community;
BIRT that the motion passed at the Monday, September 10, 2007 meeting, banning the Canadian Armed Forces from the SUB, be rescinded."

Offline 3rd Herd

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2007, 15:30:00 »
Vacant seat on the Board of Governors for a student representative anyone ? http://www.uvss.uvic.ca/index.php?page=students-representation

The UVic Senate is the decision making body for all academic matters of the University. The Senate is the body that approves course curriculum, degree programs and other academic regulations. It also monitors all policies regarding admissions, grade appeals and probation standards. Each faculty has a student elected annually to represent their needs and there are a number of at-large positions.
-vacant (7) http://www.uvss.uvic.ca/index.php?page=students-representation

Elections
Every March, undergraduate students elect student representatives for the Students´ Society, University Senate, and University Board of Governors. These representatives are responsible for ensuring that you are represented and that your ideas and concerns are voiced. Campaigning takes place for two weeks and includes two "All Candidates´ Forums" where candidates present their platforms and students can ask questions on important issue.


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Offline Feral

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2007, 19:39:23 »
The problem is mainly that Students Against War have the ear of the current UVSS board, and their small minority manages to pass this ridiculous stuff because they basically are the only ones who show up at the meetings. Personally, as a student at UVic, it's embarassing, but then again, people don't expect much else from that school. I wrote a little email to the chair expressing my (not the CFs) opinion of how I am being painted, especially following a media interview where she essentially said that members of the military are not welcome in the student union building. Her most recent politically minded move is to move this issue to the annual general meeting so that the students can decide: which completely goes against what was said earlier about how the students aren't informed enough to make this kind of decision.

Offline SweetNavyJustice

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2007, 20:15:19 »
It's funny that I actually found this thread while 'killing time' waiting for the meeting here at UVic. 

I am not one prone to showing up for such activities, but when I read the article in the Martlet last Thursday I was outraged.  I couldn't get over how a group of students were calling another bunch of students too ignorant to decide on who is a good employer. 

Being that I have actually spent seven months in Afghanistan and consider myself pretty swept up on the history of the country, it's politics and situation, I also had to laugh that one of the members of the UVSS council's claim that he was well read on the subject of what is going on.  To me, unless you have been to the place, or taken the time to get out in the public and actually talk to Afghanis living in Canada, then your being well read basically means that you've researched a number of other people's opinions that mirror yours (both for a military presence in the country and against), and can either regurgitate their claims or make an opinion off of their opinion.  What is that saying about opinions being like As@holes?!  I also suspect that these same well read people on the subject of AF couldn't tell you who Ahmed Shah Massoud, Gen. Doustem, or Abdul Sayyaf are. 

Beyond my outrage over the UVSS being idiots and lack of understanding over the actual issues in Afghanistan is a greater concern.  It is them trying to censor who should present themselves as a potential employer.  As Mike Wallace mentioned earlier in the thread, it's not as though you are then, through extension, going to ban companies that do business with the CF.  Or, since the UVSS talks of prisoner abuses, if such allegations were true, you cannot blame an organization for the inappropriate actions of an extreme minority.  As a 'company' the CF does not condone this behaviour, and does and will punish it accordingly.  To ban the CF on these grounds would be tantamount to banning every environmental group from the campus because a few of them have spiked trees and caused injury. 

At any rate, with any luck you won't be reading a story in the papers tomorrow about some old soldier who has actually been to Afghanistan and is also a student at UVic having gone over the table at UVSS members for their idiocy.   :)

Offline sonardork

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2007, 20:50:24 »
If anyone wants to express their personal opinion to the UVic "movers and shakers" here are some key email addees I got from the comments section at the Small Dead Animals blog on this subject:

scarlson@uvic.ca
chanclr@uvic.ca
plaliber@uvic.ca
gmanager@uvss.uvic.ca
martlet@uvic.ca
ombuddy@uvic.ca
academics@uvss.uvic.ca
chair@uvss.uvic.ca
edit@martlet.ca


edit to fix hyperlink
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Eternal Vigilance Is The Price of Liberty

Offline Greymatters

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2007, 21:59:58 »
Here's the site for the UVic 'Students Against War'.  For those of us who were around when the wall was still up and read what the big red machine used to put out, this material will look quite familiar...

http://sawvictoria.ca/


Offline Greymatters

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2007, 22:02:24 »
I posted it on another thread, but its more appropriate here -

Here's the site for the UVic 'Students Against War'.  For those of us who were around when the wall was still up and read what the big red machine used to put out, this material will look quite familiar...

http://sawvictoria.ca/


Offline TCBF

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2007, 22:12:17 »
Here's the site for the UVic 'Students Against War'.  For those of us who were around when the wall was still up and read what the big red machine used to put out, this material will look quite familiar...
http://sawvictoria.ca/

"Students Against War is a collective of campus groups committed to the fight against all forms of oppression and explicitly violent conflict. Our campaign is one of creative resistance, education, direct action, public forums, and solidarity with communities living and resisting war and occupation. The group's mandate is to resist the militarization of society, and to confront the injustice of imperialism at home and abroad, in our capacity as students and as citizens."

- Typical Commie word-use in Pink (of course).
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

Offline Get Nautical

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2007, 22:26:47 »
I wish the ruxted group would spam UVIC and that website with information to set the record straight >:(

I also see them trying to tye us to the US Forces and the invasion of Iraq
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 22:37:01 by Brazil_66 »

Offline Roy Harding

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2007, 22:30:13 »
The text of an email I sent on Saturday to edit@martlet.ca (the only contact email I could find on the site):

Quote
“No right to choose
UVSS reps say students can’t make up own mind about military
by David Karp
The Canadian Armed Forces are banned from recruiting in the Student Union Building (SUB).”

As a former soldier of the Canadian Forces who served in Iran, Iraq, Serbia, Croatia, and Afghanistan (amongst other locations) – I’m astonished at your student union’s lack of faith in their fellow students.  It seems that the elite of your school (if such describes the members of the UVSS) has decided that they know what’s best for their peers.  Wouldn’t want their fellow students to be exposed to a viable career option, those poor students may not have the smarts to make their own decision.

So much for human rights and dignity.  If I was a student at UVic, I’d be hollering for a revolution against the UVSS – who the hell are they to make moral judgements on behalf of the student body?


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Offline milnews.ca

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2007, 22:37:04 »
Pay attention to the activist playbook here - knowing how the other side fights always helps  ;D

Funny how they've "secured" the document so you can't print it out - what would they say if government did the same thing?  Why wouldn't you want hard copy? Hmm....

Mind you, if you highlight the text, and copy & paste it to a document, it looks like you can print it out.   :nana:

- edited to give "fix" -
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 22:41:15 by milnewstbay »
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Offline Get Nautical

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2007, 22:39:43 »
Im just pissed when im mislabeled as a US solier, "No Grandma, Im not going Iraq, I would be going to Afghanistan, Stop watching CNN and watch CBC once and awhile"
Im Proudly Canadian, Theres a reason we are bigger and on top.

That guide is a load of garbage, The key is Informed Protests Not sponsored by any Political Party, because political parties bring manipulation with it.

Edit: a little re-working of the last sentance.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 23:06:48 by Brazil_66 »

Offline 3rd Herd

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2007, 22:44:22 »

At any rate, with any luck you won't be reading a story in the papers tomorrow about some old soldier who has actually been to Afghanistan and is also a student at UVic having gone over the table at UVSS members for their idiocy.   :)

Already been done and have the T-shirt, did not make the local papers though but made several issues of the Martlet (2000 I think). But on the serious side they always have positions unfilled. I used to plan strategy with the head of PRIDE and the head of the Native Student Union. They got tired of our veto's and took to calling us the "Cripple, Queer and Wagonburner". I am waitting for a few of those to realize their dreams of becoming a MLA or an MP and then some old memories become political coinage.  >:D
"if he was to be hanged for it, he told his brother, he could not accuse a man whom he believed had meant well, and whose error was one of judgment, not of intention"
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00334

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2007, 22:51:26 »
For once, the system works...somewhat.

UVic students challenge ban on military recruiting

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=8acff5b4-f8a8-4139-9bf3-d147d59fabc2&k=82382

I was at the meeting and the support for the CF and the right for them to recruit in the building was rather impressive.

Offline TCBF

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2007, 22:54:07 »
...They got tired of our veto's and took to calling us the "Cripple, Queer and Wagonburner". I am waitting for a few of those to realize their dreams of becoming a MLA or an MP and then some old memories become political coinage.  >:D

- Are the minutes of the meetings archived somewhere?  Taped, or sanitized hardcopy?
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

Offline Thucydides

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2007, 23:03:14 »
Amazing how similar the messages are:

"ISAF is a collective of Nations under a United Nations mandate committed to the fight against all forms of oppression and explicitly violent conflict. Our campaign is one of education of Afghan citizens, direct action against Taliban oppressors and their mercenaries, public forums with village elders, and solidarity with communities living and resisting war and occupation. ISAF's mandate is to resist the militarization of Afghan society, and to confront the injustice of Islamofascism at home and abroad, in our capacity as citizens and soldiers."

The main difference, of course is we act on our mandate.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline 3rd Herd

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2007, 23:10:05 »
- Are the minutes of the meetings archived somewhere?  Taped, or sanitized hardcopy?

TCBF

I have copies of the Marlet articles, as for the comments a formal complainant was filled with the ethics staff at UVic over it and somewhere in my files have the copies of those. If I remember correctly we also filled with the UVic ombudsperson. The icing on the cake was when their head of beverage services disappeared with 175,000(?) or so of student funds. The actual amount, his name and all that did make the papers though.

Edit to add:

00334
thanks for the TC article. I worked with one person mentioned a number of times, glad to see she is still there.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 23:16:05 by 3rd Herd »
"if he was to be hanged for it, he told his brother, he could not accuse a man whom he believed had meant well, and whose error was one of judgment, not of intention"
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