Author Topic: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War  (Read 48703 times)

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Offline Greymatters

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2007, 23:38:03 »
Why is it not so surprising that, now that some students have objected and forced the issue, there is a whole lot of backpedaling and CYA going on...

Offline Greymatters

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2007, 23:46:52 »
"Students Against War is a collective of campus groups committed to the fight against all forms of oppression and explicitly violent conflict. Our campaign is one of creative resistance, education, direct action, public forums, and solidarity with communities living and resisting war and occupation. The group's mandate is to resist the militarization of society, and to confront the injustice of imperialism at home and abroad, in our capacity as students and as citizens."  - Typical Commie word-use in Pink (of course).

The arent 'commie-pinko' words.  These are the words that hostile intelligence agencies, seperatist groups and other fomenters of violence around the world use to recruit future covert and overt agents, instigate guerilla action groups, and the same spiel that has been spread at universities since before WW2.  They even describe tradecraft for studetns to follow as part of developing their own 'direct action' aka 'insurgent group' as well as basic counter-measures against law enforcement agencies.  All in the name of freedom of speech of course.  They even attempt to deny its what they're doing by providing a rebuttal claiming they arent doing it all.  It so transparent its laughable, and people believe this stuff.

 

Offline retiredgrunt45

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2007, 23:54:12 »
Quote
>“A lot of students don’t know about the issues and don’t know about the facts,” she said. “We have to make this decision for students.”

Hello, she's what 21, 22 OK, oh there's just so much life experience oozing from her ::). Give me a break! Still attached to mommy's apron strings.

Gal your life experience I can fit into a thimble and still have room, first of, geta life before you decide what other people should do with theirs.
The first goal of any political party is to stay in power by whatever means possible. Their second goal is to fool us into believing that we should keep them in power.

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"Politicians are like diapers, they have to be changed often because their usually full of crap.

Offline Travis111

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2007, 02:55:30 »
i would really like to appologize for the UVSS. as a student here at UVIC i was absolutely disgusted with the ban. the fact that that they feel they need to "protect" from the canadian military is just a slap in the face. what makes them think they know more about the issue than their fellow students? am i not capable of make my own decisions? and what kind of message does this send our troop over seas? look, i'm going to be honest, i'm not exactly for the war and i certainly wouldn't have been recruited if they had been allowed to come here but that's beside the point. the military is a job, like any other. if students want to join why should the UVSS tell them they shouldn't or they can't? Unfortunately these people live in a world where they think nobody should join the military and we can just make peace with everyone and live happily ever after. Warn is a part of life, the military is a part of life. open your eyes and start living in the real world.

Offline Get Nautical

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2007, 03:27:55 »
Its intresting to note the over-use of the word "terrorist" and how its now "Insurgent" in the media

Offline 2 Cdo

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2007, 07:16:05 »
"Students Against War is a collective of campus groups committed to the fight against all forms of oppression and explicitly violent conflict. Our campaign is one of creative resistance, education, direct action, public forums, and solidarity with communities living and resisting war and occupation. The group's mandate is to resist the militarization of society, and to confront the injustice of imperialism at home and abroad, in our capacity as students and as citizens."

- Typical Commie word-use in Pink (of course).

These groups never really change. The entire "resist the militarization of society" only applies to Western societies, never the opposition. I am old enough to remember their rhetoric when the Soviets were our enemy, and I never heard any of these groups oppose ANYTHING the Soviets did. ::)
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Offline GAP

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UVic 'Students Against War'
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2007, 07:24:21 »
I wish the ruxted group would spam UVIC and that website with information to set the record straight >:(

I also see them trying to tye us to the US Forces and the invasion of Iraq

Now why would the Ruxted group do that? That would give legitimacy to their arguments, and they have none.

As far a I know, the Ruxted group does commentary on the status of our government and it's policies, more pointedly DND practises and policies. It does not spam a kiddies playground to prove a point.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline c_canuk

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2007, 08:10:05 »
I think these sort of people are looking for someone to take up a fake "Noble fight" with to make themselves look good. They want to be seen as Noble crusaders and the military is an easy target because we don't and can't fight back against an agenda of rumor. By waging a moral fight against fictional foe they don't have to leave their homes, let alone travel to somewhere that needs humanitarians who will actually get their hands dirty

By harassing an entity that can't defend itself well from that corner to make themselves look like the little guy fighting for morality they are proving they aren't.

If they weren't cowards they would put their money where their mouth is, join an NGO and go to Dafur or somewhere else they say needs help and actually do something instead of pretending to protect students from a corrupt military that does not exist from the comfort of their heated homes, abundant food & drink and families while whining at the bar about the people providing the freedom that affords them those very luxuries.

It's a safe bet for them because harassing the people with guns that are sworn to protect them looks like a dangerous proposition to the ignorant but is the safest group to target.

In short these people are to humanitarians what ninjasnipernavyseal airsofter/internet toughguys are to the military, posers.

EDIT: Spelling
« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 08:15:12 by c_canuk »
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-John Stewart Mill

Offline Snaketnk

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2007, 08:18:53 »
I'd love to see the students responsible for this expelled... I think it's an utter abuse of power. Everything else here is so eloquently put, that I'll just re-state how disgusted I am.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2007, 08:25:26 »
I'd love to see the students responsible for this expelled... I think it's an utter abuse of power. Everything else here is so eloquently put, that I'll just re-state how disgusted I am.

I predict that they shall find this thread ... and shall be along to post their intellect to it ...

 ;)
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2007, 08:57:22 »
And, both running threads spawned by the recent UVic happenings -- now merged.

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Offline Thucydides

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2007, 10:46:27 »
An interesting contrast between how different Universities prepare their students. UVic should hang its collective head

http://bctory.blogspot.com/2007/09/how-soon-can-i-transfer.html

Quote
How Soon Can I Transfer?
For those of us keeping score today....let's see what was happening in the world of universities today.

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Taking Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to task over his horrid human rights record and fervent denial of the Holocaust.

UNIVERSITY OF VICTORIA: Debated over a simply undemocratic motion to ban Canadian Forces from the school Career Fair based on unproven grounds, which was refuted by:
a) people giving their personal views on Afghanistan
b) people cherry-picking newspaper quotes to give reasons why Afghanistan is bad
c) people simply belittling the audience opposed to the motion (one former Camosun student union leader actually said, paraphrased, "you are in the minority; therefore, your opinion does not matter).
d) people who have likely never set foot outside of their ivory towers telling people who have actually been to Afghanistan, and served there, that what they witnessed was bullshit.
e) Some 58-year old lady prattling on about nothing in the most perplexing manner possible.
But, none of it led to:
f) actually refuting the concept that this has nothing to do with personal opinion towards the Afghan mission or ideology; rather, it has everything to do with people not liking their student government making decisions for the student on behalf of their own personal opinion, especially when people who have a different opinion pay a portion of their tuition fee to this body every year.

Would you like to take a guess as to what university I'd much rather have been a student at today?
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Offline Brihard

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2007, 10:51:14 »
A bit of commentary I posted on a Facebook group on the subject...



"The comments quoted in the article seem to assert that the Canadian Forces use depleted uranium. We do not. Our munitions designed to penetrate heavy armour use hardened tungsten alloy, with no radiological hazard whatsoever.

It behooves the members of the student governemnt to check their facts. It's hideously ironic that one of their motivations for banning CF recruiting is that the average student is, and I quote, “A lot of students don’t know about the issues and don’t know about the facts,”.

If they want to take it upon themselves to make this decision for students, they ought to have the basic academic honesty to make sure that their 'knowledge' is at least factual. Especially when they're going to condescend to accuse the general student population of ignorance. I wouldn't tolerate this at my school, nor should UVic students tolerate it at theirs."
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Offline Feral

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2007, 11:52:37 »
As a UVic student and a member of the CF it's shameful, I didn't get a chance to speak my peace during the debate unfortunately (or fortunately?). We've got national coverage now, and it's looking pretty bad..


http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070925/BCMASON25/Headlines/headdex/headdexEducation/3/3/5/

Offline FSTO

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2007, 12:46:31 »
Listened to the Student union chair this morning on the local CBC station. She was backpeddling furiously on the subject of why they made the decision. She went on and on about democracy and different voices and open debate. What she should have said was; "We made a bad decision and will take this matter to the students and let them decide"

This whole issue has made U Vic look like total buffoons.

Offline ivan the tolerable

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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2007, 12:50:45 »
I don't know about that.  I think it makes the total buffoons look like total buffoons.  The rest of the students who objected to what amounts to censorship, don't come across as buffoons.

Just my $0.02.
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Re: UVSS Bans Recruitment in SUB Building & "Students Against War"
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2007, 14:58:53 »
UPDATE: There is an enderly gentleman walking around campus with signs with pro-troop and anti-UVSS slogans.  I never thought that this would be so big.

Offline NavComm

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UVic students challenge ban on military recruiting
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2007, 16:05:29 »
I saw a bit about this story on the news, I apologize if it's already been posted.

The usual reproduced under the fair dealings disclaimer...

http://www.canada.com/ch/cheknews/news/story.html?id=8acff5b4-f8a8-4139-9bf3-d147d59fabc2&k=82382
 
Lousie Dickson
Times Colonist

Monday, September 24, 2007

Detail from a Canadian Forces recruiting poster. UVic's student society has banned military recruiters from its building.

University of Victoria students are protesting a decision by their student society to ban active  Canadian Forces recruiting at a career fair in their building.

The outcry, which includes a 350-member protest group on Facebook, has forced the UVic Student Society to let students have the final say on the issue. A motion will be brought forward at the student body's annual general meeting Oct. 18 and the decision will be binding. The fair is Jan. 30.

"There's such strong feeling about it on both sides," said Tracy Ho, chair of the UVSS board of directors. "That's why we're bringing it to the students."

At the Sept. 10 board meeting, Ho cast the deciding vote in favour of the ban, breaking a  6-6 deadlock. Some students are concerned about the recruiting practices of the military, she explained. They believe the military does not give students information about the psychological, mental and physical effects soldiers face when they return from service. Others don't want the military in the Student Union Building, where the fair will be held.

"The Student Union Building is truly the only space on campus that is for students and run by students," said Ho. "They feel strongly about not having the military in their space actively recruiting them in their own space.

"This issue touches home for a lot of students. A lot of people feel very passionately about the issue. I'm very happy it has sparked this debate. This is what university is all about."

Many students are unhappy by what they perceive as a lack of debate. Pamphlets and posters handed out on campus Monday argue UVSS has no right to tell students whether they should  join or not join the Canadian Armed Forces. Students were also set to protest a board meeting Monday night. A petition is being circulated to impeach student directors who voted to ban the military from the career fair.

"I feel somewhat insulted that some members of the board think I'm incapable of making a decision on my own," said Jordan Dilba, a fourth-year economics student. "I think regardless of how people feel about the war, students are in favour of people making their own decisions."

Fourth-year history student John Fox said he was extremely upset by UVSS's actions.

"The Canadian Forces provides funding for many UVic students," said Fox. "There are people I know who wouldn't be able to go to university without the funding they get. One of the primary missions of UVSS is to lower tuition fees and here we have a group that's helping students and they want to kick them out.

"The UVSS has essentially declared the Armed Forces are criminals. Their reasoning is incredibly  flawed. It's completely preposterous they're making these claims."

"You should be exposed to all information," said Max Bakken, a fourth-year philosophy student. "We are students. We are here because we are intellectual. We can make that decision."

Shannon Lucy, a third-year anthropology student, supports the UVSS decision.

"I'm not for censorship," said Lucy. "But since the Canadian Armed Forces is doing illegal things, they don't really have any business on a public site. We can't be endorsing them."

In Vancouver, Lt.-Navy Rand Freeman of Canadian Forces Recruiting was reluctant to comment on the dispute.

"The Canadian Forces is very mission-oriented and so is Canadian Forces Recruiting, he said. "Our mission is to attract people. We will continue with our mission."

Jennifer Margison, manager of UVic Career Services, said the student society is within its right to determine what kind of events take place in its building - and she respects that.

"We will just make some alternate arrangement for the military to speak to students who wish to speak to them. That's not really going to a problem," she said.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2007, 16:08:06 »
Merged it into the ongoing UVic saga thread NavComm.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2007, 16:12:04 »
Now here's a UVic ID 10 T who needs some education obviously ...

I'd censor her, but my arms aren't that long ...

friggin' wingnut ...

quoted from NavComms article:

Quote
Shannon Lucy, a third-year anthropology student, supports the UVSS decision.

"I'm not for censorship," said Lucy. "But since the Canadian Armed Forces is doing illegal things, they don't really have any business on a public site. We can't be endorsing them."

WTF??? Over ...
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2007, 16:23:49 »
Well we are doing illegal things, I promised her I wouldn't co..........
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

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Offline Nox Vulpes

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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2007, 16:25:07 »
That's the kind of thing that annoys me, un-informed people getting air-time (or paper time?) They make the CF look bad for something that is not true. People could be reading that, and not have a very thorough understanding of the mission and think, "we're doing illegal things? I didn't know that! Maybe the mission IS immoral."

Or maybe not. What do I know?  :P
There's nothing worse than someone who exaggerates.

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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2007, 16:25:14 »
...me on over and tell her how wrong she is.
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2007, 16:30:13 »
Bruce,

Your cheque's in the mail.

From Mike.

 ;)
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Re: UVIC threads on Recruiting, Protests & Students against War
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2007, 16:38:56 »
That's the kind of thing that annoys me, un-informed people getting air-time (or paper time?) They make the CF look bad for something that is not true. People could be reading that, and not have a very thorough understanding of the mission and think, "we're doing illegal things? I didn't know that! Maybe the mission IS immoral."

Or maybe not. What do I know?  :P

Where do you think those uninformed people learned this attitude and ignorance of facts from??

The very same media that now gives them coverage!! The media in this country is not interested in presenting the facts of the mission to Canadians (read Ruxted if you want that); they are interested in "educating" them only with stories that "bleed" and earn their pretty publications and shareholders the largest profit margin possible.

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