Author Topic: The Integrated Soldier System Project (ISSP)  (Read 70191 times)

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Offline MCG

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Re: Eyewear in Afghanistan
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2008, 15:18:07 »
You and I BOTH know that it'll take an eternity before what you're suggesting ... a Canadian version of the FFW program to EVER be implemented.
Google "Integrated Soldier System Project" and you find that there is a project working toward implementing a "Canadian version" of the US Future Force Warrior (FFW).

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Eyewear in Afghanistan
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2008, 15:32:22 »
Re: BEW and MNVG,
Being a V3, I need to wear the inserts with my BEW. I have gained a bit of experience in using the MNVG in all weather with the BEW. The only difficulty I have experienced with that set up is when weather is cool, fog tends to build up between the insert and ballistic lens. I have had no problems with BEW and MNVGs while wearing contacts and not the inserts.

I do though, take to cup off the user end of the NVG so that there is airflow at the risk of others seeing the glow on my face.

Do you get headaches from the RX inserts for the glasses? I had to stop wearing them for convoys, and went back to normal glasses inside my Sun/Dust/Wind goggles. Couldn't even concentrate on watching my arcs they hurt so bad.

Offline Breacher41

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Re: Eyewear in Afghanistan
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2008, 16:57:46 »
Google "Integrated Soldier System Project" and you find that there is a project working toward implementing a "Canadian version" of the US Future Force Warrior (FFW).

I know, but seeing how long it too CTS to pump out CADPAT clothing, I'm not holding my breathe on that one.
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Offline NL_engineer

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Re: Eyewear in Afghanistan
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2008, 21:40:05 »
Google "Integrated Soldier System Project" and you find that there is a project working toward implementing a "Canadian version" of the US Future Force Warrior (FFW).

Hasn't the US been working on this for over ten years? 

IMO if it takes them that long, I will be forced to retired (just over 40 years till that happens), by the time we make it.


Just my 2 cents
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Offline Matt_Fisher

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Re: Eyewear in Afghanistan
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2008, 22:28:11 »
US has been working on Land Warrior and now Future Force Warrior for some time now, however the Canadian system is likely to be somewhat more based on COTS technology which has been proven in other soldier modernisation programs, i.e. FIST, FELIN, IDZ 2000, Land Warrior/Future Force Warrior, etc. 
This is not to say that Canada is behind the curve in respect to what's going on internationally, and ourselves here at home have run a fairly extensive program to evaluate various forms of technology to see how applicable they are to increasing the lethality of our dismounted soldiers, i.e. DRDC's SIREQ program http://pubs.drdc.gc.ca/pubdocs/sireq_e.html

For those on the RegF pointy end expect to start to see ISSP being fielded in the 2011-2015 timeframe for operational task forces and CMTC work-up training as first priority, then filtering into the rest of the reg force, and possibly reserves.  Given the inherent cost of the system, there is the possibility that there will be some sort of fleet-management plan, as there probably won't be enough systems procured for every soldier, i.e. WES equipped tac-vests.  How ISSP is going to be tied into current legacy individual equipment, STANO, communications, small arms, and other items remains to be officially defined (or at least some direction given by DLR to the potential industry prime systems integrators for ISSP), as well as what items will remain legacy or what is to be retired/replaced into the 3 different fielding stages for ISSP, as well as how ISSP is going to be coordinate with parallel/related programs such as Small Arms Replacement Project, the Future Combat Uniform project, etc.

Offline GAP

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Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2008, 09:05:58 »
Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
 Article Link

VANCOUVER — Canada is among countries evolving their armies into forces of futuristic soldiers, with laser-sighted rifles, GPS-equipped units directed via computer and equipment that lets them see and kill the enemy in all conditions, day or night.

But before conjuring images of invincible Star Wars troopers, consider some not-so-fun facts.

The average Canadian foot soldier on patrol in Afghanistan today is toting more than two-dozen extra batteries on his already overloaded body to power all the electronics he must carry.

During Operation Medusa in the fall of 2006, an offensive against the Taliban, one infantry company alone burned through 17,500 AA batteries in two weeks.

And those cool night-vision goggles that clip to every soldier's helmet? They give the soldier an edge in combat but sometimes also a pain the neck as they dangle in front of his eyes - that is, if they don't cause a poorly strapped-on helmet to flip right off his head.

That's the kind of reality check Doug Palmer will provide for anyone too much in awe of the possibilities of high-tech warfare.

Palmer, a former infantry officer with 35 years in the Canadian Armed Forces, now works in the army's Directorate of Land Requirements unit that develops equipment for foot soldiers - everything from boots to helmets and all the gee-whiz stuff such as visors with jet fighter-style heads-up displays and holographic gun sights.

He is closely involved with the directorate's Integrated Soldier System Project, which aims to create that futuristic warrior before the end of the next decade.

The federal Treasury Board is to decide this month whether to approve release of the first slice of money to fund the $310-million program, which would involve defining what the system's initial capability should be and testing the solutions with Canadian soldiers.
More on link
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Offline lone bugler

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2008, 10:59:59 »
some of the things in this article is true and it is alot of extra manual labour lugging things around. a lot of equipment is bulky, clumsy and award to make use in a hurry. But you can't say night vision goggles killed more people than it saved can ya, It's equipment like this that gives us an advantage. I'd be happy to lug around anything that can save my life if the overburdening dosn't cause me to calapse every time over the wire :warstory: 
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Offline Red 6

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2008, 11:05:49 »
I agree with lone bugler. SLA Marshall wrote a classic book called "The Soldier's Load and the Mobility of a Nation" which addresses this topic in-depth. It was always my observation that packing lists only made the problem of the soldier's load worse. I was probably as guilty as any other leader when I sat down with the XO prior to heading for the field to formulate the packing list. To me, batteries are just like ammo. You have to have them or you can't do your job. Right next to these is water, and then chow. 

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2008, 11:25:16 »
I agree with Red 6 and lone bugler.

"Kit Lists" as we know them, are a necessary evil. When we were issued our new Cadpat Patrol/Day packs, some troops thought they could replace a rucksack. It doesn't, especially in winter. We had one troop try it. He was miserable.
Now I make the direction clear that for Marching Order, the Day pack will not replace the rucksack.
I was asked one time for sugestions for a kit list. I gave my opinion, but the CSM said "I like that so it stays" So much for suggestions.
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Offline Babbling Brooks

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2008, 11:29:05 »
I just did a piece about this at The Torch.  Not sure how many of you know, but PWGSC put out an Opportunity Abstract on MERX about a month and a half ago called "DEVELOPMENT OF TECHNOLOGIES FOR IMPROVING SOLDIER MOBILITY."

They specifically mentioned exoskeletons and "smart materials" in the MERX abstract.  I've posted video of the Raytheon Sarcos suit at the blog, as an example of the technology, just for fun.

I await the obligatory "I am Iron Man" comment!
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2008, 11:32:34 »
Priority for kit:
1. Ammo:
2. Water;
3. Rations.
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Offline X-mo-1979

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2008, 15:58:16 »
Being the proud owner of 2 MOB's full of green kit gone to Afganistan...to then be told the day after that they finally changed the list.And that it didnt make sense to bring all your green combats etc.

I have two box's sent with nothing applicable in them.

Thank you battle group.

Offline AlphaQup

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2008, 16:44:14 »
I was reading a book on the Iraq War, 'Generation Kill', and the soldiers on the ground often compained that nightvision goggles lacked dept perception. Have there been any improvements in such technology lately? I'm asking because I'm not military, and that same gear saves their lives in the book.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2008, 16:47:42 »
Monoculars give no depth perception - same as looking throughjust one eye.

Binoculars do. Aircrew NVGs are all the binocular type.

Offline KevinB

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Re: Canadian soldiers' high-tech gear helps in battle, creates burden
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2008, 04:08:51 »
Depending upon what stuff you have;

The old cyclops vision 504's/7B's take a one image picture and send it to both your eyes -- the mono's PVS-14 and 18 gave you one NV eye and one un aided eye -- which gave greater local SA - however did not help for longer.  Dual Tube units like the 793's or ANVIS-9's etc give you true dual tube vision -- which allows a degree of depth perception.
  Having used all o fthe above - and the old old honey comb duals we had, it becomes clear that many missions require different stuff.

Doing weapon IA's can be a lot easier in a PVS-18 than a 50/50, however driving sucks in an 18.


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Offline daftandbarmy

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Canada Joins The Movement
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2010, 18:25:50 »
Has anyone seen this allegedly new stuff?


Canada Joins The Movement

January 24, 2010:

Canada  is joining its NATO allies in providing its infantry with new basic equipment, including electronic gear that, until quite recently, no one saw the troops getting for a decade or more. The Canadian gear set is called ISSP (Integrated Soldier System Project). The first components of ISSP will be issued next year. ISSP contains the usual elements of improved infantry gear. New uniforms, that incorporate improvements the troops have been demanding for years, plus new helmets and protective vests, that are lighter and provide improved shielding from bullets and fragments. New communications gear gives each soldier a link with everyone in his unit, while individual GPS is something troops have already provided for themselves. As other armies have discovered, the troops have already bought a lot of the new gear that is now proposed for the new standard issue.

A lot of this new stuff is commercial, with the military taking the best and most appropriate gear designed for outdoor living. This is particularly true of stuff marketed to the demanding mountain climbing and winter sports enthusiasts. Canada isn't plunging into unknown territory here. The U.S., France , Germany and most other major NATO countries have already gone this route, and left a lot of practical experience in their wake. Thus the major goal is to get all the most useful gear, and reduce the weight of stuff the infantry have to carry into combat. It's much easier to find new gear that works better, than it is to find stuff that's lighter, and still gets the job done.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htinf/articles/20100124.aspx
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Canada Joins The Movement
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 22:54:41 »
Tease the Soldier: Redux?
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Offline PatrickO

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ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2011, 17:07:18 »
I was perusing and stumbled upon this page, containing some interesting documents for industry types relating to the ISSP project. Of particular note is the document showing a design for the ISSP Modular Load Carriage System (MLCS).

http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/keydocumentsinformationforindustry-documentsclesinformationpourlindustrie-eng.asp

This link will open a 2Mb Word document with the drawing of the MLCS:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/documents/ISSP_Vol%202%20doc%202.doc

You will see that the MLCS is a two-piece chest rig-style design, using PALS! Also of note is that the design also makes an allowance for the carriage of plates. On the main website are other supporting documents with descriptions regarding the pouches and the ISSP "roles": Assaulter, Commander, Machine gunner and, Grenadier. In some of the documents, the description of the pouches / roles are accompanied by descriptions of where these pouches are to be placed on the vest:

(my italics)
Quote
Ammunition for the rifleman and Commander consists of rifle ammunition (5.56mm in 30 round magazines) and hand grenades (fragmentation and smoke). In order to access this ammunition efficiently it is located low and centrally on the MLCS within three triple (capacity of 3 to 9 magazines) magazine pouches. The ammunition pouches should remain on the waistline for access. The contractor can secure ISS components and/ or pouches (shingle) to the magazine pouches or vica-versa.

From this document (80Kb Word file):
http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/documents/ISSP_Vol%202%20doc%208.doc

Looks like the average rifleman's issue of C7 magazines will potentially increase to 9.. Very interesting stuff.

Has anyone else seen this? Thoughts?
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2011, 17:11:09 »
I haven't looked at this yet, but since you asked for my first thought, here goes:

How long will it be before some CWO decides that all vests in his unit must look the same, no matter what the soldier's job is?

I'm a bit of a pessimist.
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Offline PatrickO

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2011, 17:17:44 »
My thinking on it is that they'll have to allow their soldiers to wear the pouches given to them, based on their role. I'm sure the RSMs will insist that all Riflemen will have their pouches in exactly the same spots, and the same goes for the C9 gunners etc.  ;)

The very fact that the ISSP documents are specifying PALS / MOLLE as the modular system of choice is significant in and of itself. Change is in the wind... could you have imagined the CF going for PALS / MOLLE ten years ago?
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2011, 18:30:16 »
Change is in the wind... could you have imagined the CF going for PALS / MOLLE ten years ago?
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Offline Anyone's Grunt

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2011, 10:48:05 »
I was perusing and stumbled upon this page...

This link will open a 2Mb Word document with the drawing of the MLCS:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/documents/ISSP_Vol%202%20doc%202.doc

...Has anyone else seen this? Thoughts?

My thoughts...

1) The rig shown is a side entry rig... A split front rig is easier to don and doff.

2) The rig shown allows for carriage of plates. If this rig is a true plate carrier, then it's performance will be degraded if the plates are removed.  It will sag under the load of the kit attached to it.  I recommend that if plates are not meant to be carried inside the rig that the option to do so be removed completely.

3) The drawing indicates a single waist adjustment strap centered in the panel.  This leaves the upper and lower corners free to sag and droop.  A simple solution would be to change to 2 straps, one on the extereme lower edge and one on the corner above it.  This change would lead to a more secure rig, less flop and droop.

4) The eventual adoption of the MOLLE/PALS system is a uniformity nightmare.  Someone somewhere will force their soldiers to follow a layout, effectivley defeating the whole modular concept.  If this becomes the case, the CF shold just hold a Sergeant Major's Symposium and hash out the layout the whole Force should adhere to and just sew the pouches right to our combat shirts.  They could end the thing with a big mess dinner, old dudes love that crap.

5) The eventual adoption of the MOLLE/PALS system is a "tactical nylon distributor's" wet dream.  A plus for the troops will be the ability to use pouches that actually function and make sense and place them where they prefer.  Unfortunately, they'll have to pay out of pocket to get them, and they will.  I have very little faith, reinforced by looking at this single drawing, the we are capable of designing and fielding a variety of pouches that can effectivley perform the various combat functions the CF requires.  I predict a series of pouches that will perform many functions in a poor manner.  Very little will change in the way of the "non-issue kit" debacle, but now instead of whole rigs it will become an issue of individual pouches. 

6) The front panel is joined to the back panel over the shoulders using hook and loop. I personally view this as a weak point, especially where casualty extraction is concerned. IMO the velcro shoulders will become a weak point and will release at the most critical time.
 
Conclusion / Summary:

It's a step in the right direction, but we're still miles away, IMO, from acceptable load carriage.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 11:16:49 by Anyone's Grunt »

Offline AmmoTech90

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2011, 11:04:00 »
Not all 30 round 5.56mm mags are the same size, who knows if the CF will change mags sometime in future, it would be short sighted to have to change all our pouches.Hopefully the mag pouches will be open topped or large enough and bungeed to secure a variety of mag sizes.
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Offline PatrickO

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2011, 14:42:17 »
The ISSP project page does in fact show the pouches to be issued:

Be advised, this is a 30Mb Word document. It contains actual pictures of the MLCS vest and pouches in the 4 different configurations.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/documents/ISSP_Vol%202%20doc%209.doc
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Offline Troopasaurus

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Re: ISSP - Modular Load Carriage at last
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2011, 15:41:11 »
Quote
1) The rig shown is a side entry rig... A split front rig is easier to don and doff.

True but if it is designed to carry plates then split front is not really an option.

Quote
4) The eventual adoption of the MOLLE/PALS system is a uniformity nightmare.  Someone somewhere will force their soldiers to follow a layout, effectively defeating the whole modular concept.  If this becomes the case, the CF shold just hold a Sergeant Major's Symposium and hash out the layout the whole Force should adhere to and just sew the pouches right to our combat shirts.  They could end the thing with a big mess dinner, old dudes love that crap.

The only place I see a layout having a place would be on basic courses. On basic troops need to be told how to pack so they can learn the basics of being a soldier before spending their time thinking about which works better, mag shingles or triple pouches.

Quote
6) The front panel is joined to the back panel over the shoulders using hook and loop. I personally view this as a weak point, especially where casualty extraction is concerned. IMO the velcro shoulders will become a weak point and will release at the most critical time.

Agreed and at the same token why not make this releaseable while were at it. I can think of a few situations from my tour that having releaseable armour (and this being a plate carrier) would have been beneficial.