Author Topic: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy  (Read 11180 times)

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Offline CBH99

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2008, 01:51:29 »
I hate to brag.....but my 2005 Honda Civic costs $40 to fill up (Just did so, about 20 mins ago) -- and lasts me about a solid 1 1/2 months, to 2 months.        :-D
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Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2008, 08:05:09 »
Do you drive anywhere with that Honda Civic? If you have a fulltime job how is that even possible it lasts you a week? My wife has a 2002 Sunfire and it eats up about $40 every week to week and a half and that's just her driving 20mins to work 5 days a week and back!

Question: Someone above mentioned some type of commuter's assistance etc, anything like that in Alberta and how to apply/get it? And I believe you can claim a certain portion of mileage on you're taxes every year if it's for work also? Not like you have you're own personal business and "write it off" and claim on you're taxes but some kind of a tax break?

Maybe we should start a thread on how to save being raped at the pumps!
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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2008, 09:02:23 »
Question: Someone above mentioned some type of commuter's assistance etc, anything like that in Alberta and how to apply/get it?

IIRC, only Reservists get commuting allowance.

And I believe you can claim a certain portion of mileage on you're taxes every year if it's for work also? Not like you have you're own personal business and "write it off" and claim on you're taxes but some kind of a tax break?

Be prepared for higher car insurance if you start doing this.  AFAIK, the only ones who can claim mileage on their income tax are those who actually use their vehicle for their job/business, e.g. taxi driver, traveling salesperson, etc.
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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2008, 09:53:07 »
Do you drive anywhere with that Honda Civic? If you have a fulltime job how is that even possible it lasts you a week? My wife has a 2002 Sunfire and it eats up about $40 every week to week and a half and that's just her driving 20mins to work 5 days a week and back!

Question: Someone above mentioned some type of commuter's assistance etc, anything like that in Alberta and how to apply/get it? And I believe you can claim a certain portion of mileage on you're taxes every year if it's for work also? Not like you have you're own personal business and "write it off" and claim on you're taxes but some kind of a tax break?

Maybe we should start a thread on how to save being raped at the pumps!

Commuting assistance is for reservists who live more than 16km from their ordinary workplace and for whom adequate public transportation is not available.  You get to claim low rate mileage on the distance beyond 16km.  In my diesel Jetta, it was a good amount.  In my Rabbit it about covers the gas and that's all.  It's not a princely sum at all.

As for how to save money at the pumps - there's only one way.  Buy less fuel.  That means plan trips to be efficient, car pool more often, walk or bike where you can, or use transit.  Nothing else will change prices except for altering demand.  Any of those emails about "don't buy gas on this day or from these people" are totally and utterly ineffective.  Reducing your consumption is the only way to really save money.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2008, 10:13:49 »
I hate to brag.....but my 2005 Honda Civic costs $40 to fill up (Just did so, about 20 mins ago) -- and lasts me about a solid 1 1/2 months, to 2 months.        :-D

Don't drive much?   As for the $40 fill up, I have a Kia Spectra and it now costs me close to $55 to fill that thing up, must be nice to have cheap gas in your neighborhood!

Here is a good little article that was put out by Canadian Driver that tested the gas mileage of 10 compact cars, and the plain old Honda Civic they drove got 58mpg.   http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/50-litre.htm

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2008, 11:52:47 »
Well, I don't have a car - my eyes are that bad; but I do have a portfolio which is somewhat unbalanced in favour of oil stocks, so what is the problem again?  ;D
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2008, 21:01:48 »
Pat Martin (NDP) was on the local CBC Radio today extolling the "virtues" of a Regulated Gas Price in Canada...cuz it worked so well in Nova Scotia   ::)  (the price, on average, was 1.5 cents/litre higher than NB, just to pay for "price stability").

I swear to God- Every MP should be required to take a first year economics course before being allowed to take a seat in Parliament.  How is having a national regulator in Ottawa going lower gas prices?  If they force the price too low, what is to stop the refiners from shipping their product to the US to sell at a higher price?  Are the feds going to confiscate the refinery and the bulk tanks?  How will that pull more oil out the ground?

Leaving aside the gross tax load on the fuel we burn, the only way to bring down the price is to let high prices work.  Eventually, people will buy less; Alternate sources of energy will start to get attractive. I looked at the US Dept of Energy site last week- it is already working in the US- production of gasoline is down about 254,000 barrels/day over the same week last year, and total gasoline stocks are up 18.4 million barrels over the same week last year.  The US produces about 8.6 Million barrels of gasoline/day, so this is a drop of about 3% in consumption.

For more, see this link: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_gasoline.html

The Government distorting the market just makes the pain last longer and run deeper.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 22:21:26 by SeaKingTacco »

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2008, 22:08:28 »
Pat Martin (NDP) was on the local CBC Radio today extolling the "virtues" of a Regulated Gas Price in Canada...cuz it worked so well in Nova Scotia   ::)  (the price, on average, was 1.5 cents/litre higher than NB, just to pay for "price stability").

I swear to God- Every MP should be required to take a first year economics course before being allowed to take a seat in Parliament.  How is having a national regulator in Ottawa going lower gas prices?  If they force the price too low, what is to stop the refiners from shipping their product to the US to sell at a higher price?  Are the feds going to confiscate the refinery and the bulk tanks?  How will that pull more oil out the ground?

Leaving aside the gross tax load on the fuel we burn, the only way to bring down the price is to let high prices work.  Eventually, people will buy less; Alternate sources of energy will start to get attractive. I looked at the US Dept of Energy site last week- it is already working in the US- production of gasoline is down about 254,000 barrels/week over the same week last year, and total gasoline stocks are up 18.4 million barrels over the same week last year.  The US produces about 8.6 Million barrels of gasoline/day, so this is a drop of about 3% in consumption.

For more, see this link: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/twip/twip_gasoline.html

The Government distorting the market just makes the pain last longer and run deeper.

Worked brilliantly in Nova Scotia where lots of little independents in small towns shut down - or PEI where Wilson's simply stopped shipping fuel altogether when it couldn't be done for the regulator's prices.

What gets my goat though are these fools who think that not buying from Esso or Petro Canada will make a difference - without realizing that if demand doesn't change, guess who the Esso refinery is selling gasoline to?  The Shell or Canadian Tire or whichever stations are selling it (Canadian Tire's petrol comes from Esso, by the way, normally).  That's the wonder of dealing in a fungible commodity.
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Offline Greymatters

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2008, 00:50:38 »
Wholesale or retail, a buck is going to be made by someone...

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2008, 23:20:09 »
Today, here in Toronto, we needed gas.  Our usual gas station is out of gas and our other usual one was out of regular gas, so, they were offering an upgrade for the same price $1.24 l.  Now, that will definitely affect someones economy.  Like the guy who runs/owns the gas station.  Hopefully, this is not the beginning of gas shortages right before long weekend cuz that would suck :'(
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2008, 07:55:48 »
Here, for all you gas price whiners, is an excellent commentary by Neil Reynolds, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail:

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080513.wreynolds0514/BNStory/robColumnsBlogs/home
Quote
Why fume? Gas remains a bargain

NEIL REYNOLDS

May 14, 2008 at 6:00 AM EDT

In 1973, the U.S. economy required 17,440 BTUs (British thermal units) to create one dollar's worth of GDP. By 2006, it required only 8,835 BTUs, about half as much. It is this remarkable increase in energy efficiency that helps explain the paradox of high oil prices.

The rising price of gasoline irks people intensely but so far hasn't hurt them significantly. They gas up as frequently now as they ever have. (The U.S. Energy Information Administration says Americans will buy 9.2 million barrels of gasoline a day in 2008, precisely the same as last year – though in a slower-paced economy.) In fact, of course, people are getting the energy equivalent of two tanks of gas every time they fill up. It's like paying twice as much as you want to pay for a carton of eggs – but getting 24 of them in every dozen.

In its most recent analysis of gas prices, the Washington-based Institute for Energy Research calculates the average inflation-adjusted U.S. pump price – for the past 90 years – at $2.26 (U.S.) a gallon. These days, at an average price of $3.30 a gallon, U.S. gas prices appear almost 50 per cent higher. Yet this apparently exceptional rise puts the cost of gasoline at the same level that prevailed at the height of the oil price panic during the Iran-Iraq war in the early 1980s – when the nominal price doubled from 75 cents a gallon to $1.50 a gallon.

How exceptional is the present cost of gasoline? The U.S. Bureau of Labour Statistics says its “all-items” category of goods and services has risen in real-dollar terms by 100 per cent in the past 20 years alone. Vegetables have risen by 138 per cent, fruit by 160 per cent. Medical care has risen by 170 per cent. College tuition has risen by 263 per cent. Although now above its historic average, gasoline remains a bargain. Adjusted for inflation, for example, economy-wide transportation costs have fallen 10 per cent in the past two decades.

The more efficient use of energy is a great technological achievement. The U.S. population has increased by 90 million people (or 44 per cent) since 1975. The U.S. economy has grown by more than $7-trillion in GDP (or 160 per cent). Energy consumption, on the other hand, has risen by only 32 per cent (from 75.7 quadrillion, or thousand-trillion, BTUs to 99.5 quadrillion BTUs). Without this efficiency gain, the U.S. would have needed almost 100 per cent more energy – that is, another 100 quadrillion BTUs – to produce the same goods and services.

Some people argue that this leap in energy efficiency occurred only because U.S. companies shipped manufacturing operations abroad. Yet, from 1992 through 2005, energy-intensive U.S. manufacturers reduced their shipments by only four percentage points (from 30 per cent to 26 per cent) as a share of all manufactured shipments. And U.S. production of goods actually increased (though the number of jobs in manufacturing did fall).

Assume that energy prices remain as high through 2016 as they are now. Assume further that the U.S. produces the same efficiency gains through these next eight years as it has in the past 20. This further increase in efficiency would reduce the real price of gasoline to its historic average – $2.26 a gallon. (In an odd coincidence, the U.S. Department of Transportation calculates in its own projections that improvements in car mileage will effectively reduce the pump price of gasoline by 2016 to $2.26 a gallon.) Even now, U.S. gasoline prices are below the prices of the 1970s and the 1980s. Since 1970, for instance, world demand for oil has doubled from 45 million barrels a day to 90 million b/d. In the same period, average annual U.S. gas prices (adjusted for both efficiency and inflation and expressed in 2007 dollars) have fallen from $4 a gallon to $3.30 a gallon. From the peak panic of the Iran-Iraq war, gas prices have fallen from $6 a gallon to $3.30 a gallon.

You can also track the rise and fall of retail gas prices for the past 90 years by comparing the price of 1,000 gallons of gas with per capita GDP. From this perspective, gas prices have fallen in every single decade, whether in wartime or in peacetime, since the 1920s – when Americans needed as much as 50 per cent of per capita GDP to make this purchase. In the 1930s, the percentage fell to 35. In the 1950s, it fell to 15 per cent. In the 1970s and throughout the Iran-Iraq war, it fell to 10 per cent. In the 1990s, it fell to 4 per cent, its lowest level ever. In 2007, it increased marginally to 5.3 per cent.

Are you listening, Jack Layton? Ms. Clinton? Anyone?


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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2008, 08:49:45 »

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2008, 08:57:34 »
Regulated gas here on the Rock but still high, $1.339/L for regular SS, Mid Grade @1.369 SS, Premium $1.399 SS, Diesel $1.464 SS/FS

See attached PDF to see how it varies in different parts of the province dated 08-May-2008
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 09:01:19 by NFLD Sapper »
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2008, 09:23:24 »
I managed on my last two fills to get pretty good (relatively!) prices - $1.174 in Trenton last Wednesday (at the Ultramar between the base and Belleville), last night the Ultramar on the 401 at Port Hope had $1.219 when everywhere else was betwen $1.24 - $1.27.  Of course, I have to go to Ottawa for a wedding and the wife has to leave before me in the TDI (which will cost half what it costs me) so I'm sure I'll get stuck buying pricey fuel to get home on Sunday.
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Offline Redeye

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2008, 09:26:59 »
Now if only I had a tanker truck and a place to store the fuel and share it with my buddies - Imperial Oil's wholesale rack price in Toronto is $0.8770/L.
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Offline KJK

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2008, 23:27:46 »
Now if only I had a tanker truck and a place to store the fuel and share it with my buddies - Imperial Oil's wholesale rack price in Toronto is $0.8770/L.

Yes but rack price does not include the taxes, that is only the cost of the fuel. :cdn:

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Offline Redeye

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2008, 08:15:21 »
Ahhh - I was wondering about when all the taxes kick in.  Makes sense, since someone I know who retired from Imperial told me there policy is $0.02/L profit off the rack.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2008, 08:21:24 »
Ahhh - I was wondering about when all the taxes kick in.  Makes sense, since someone I know who retired from Imperial told me there policy is $0.02/L profit off the rack.

That is the Oil Company's profit.  The Province and Federal Governments' profit (TAX) is ..........what?............75% ?
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Re: Affects of Gas Prices on Cdn Economy
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2008, 12:50:40 »
While the arguments that oil prices are pretty constant when adjusted for inflation are economically correct, you and I don't purchase fuel in inflation adjusted dollars, so it becomes easy to fire up people's emotions over the issue. (Hey, I get pretty cranked looking at the pump prices too, and I studied economics!)

What will have to be looked at is how politicians and other scaremongers might try to manipulate this sort of discontent. Silly plans to impose caps on prices have already backfired in the Atlantic provinces, as gas stations simply refused to sell gas at below cost. The next big thing will probably be attempting to manipulate prices for the purposes of social engineering:

http://mesopotamiawest.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-are-liberals-really-up-to.html

Quote
What Are the Liberals Really Up To?

We've been talking about the Liberal 'carbon tax' for weeks now, but not about what the Liberals are really up to. What is it, precisely, they want to do?

Yes, yes, global warming and all that; but put aside the rhetoric, what is the objective of such a tax? If You say to reduce Canada's carbon footprint, sure, but again; what would happen if what the Liberals are going to propose was actually adopted and implemented?

Firstly, a carbon tax would hit car owners hardest as well as individuals who heat fully-detached homes. If you put that together; the most seriously affected would be suburban, two-car families living at the edge of suburbia. Since this is where the most reasonably-priced homes can be found, the first victims of the Liberal social engineering master plan would be young, middle-class families.

Besides the cost, how else could Liberals make living 60 miles from the city intolerable? One way would be to not build any more expressways (the B.C. example). Another would be to impose draconian speed limit enforcement policies (the Ontario example) and yet a third would be to have car makers install speed governors as has been proposed for trucks.

Put enough pressure on, and the flight from suburbia will become a flood. These same young families will do two things: they'll buy a condo in the city and they'll sell their car and take public transit and bicycles to get around. This has already happened in Vancouver where young people vastly outnumber old people in the downtown core.

But even if you see all this happening, what is the point of making the outer suburbs unlivable? Who benefits from what would be a modern day expulsion from the land, similar to what happened in Ireland and Scotland in the 19th Century?

Aside from creating large pools of low cost land for accumulation into vast estates, I think the point of the program would be to make the public more malleable, more receptive to other social engineering projects. Once you have people in the battery-hen complex of a modern apartment building, once you have them at the mercy of public transportation, once you have them living as if in a commune.

Why then any kind of social manipulation is possible. Eh Comrade Stéphane?

Remember, this is only a scenario, but manipulating taxes and regulations is well within the power of governments to achieve almost any outcome, no matter how perverse.
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