Topic: pilot vacation time and OJT

[snyper21]

I'm sure these questions have been answered before.. I just can't seem to find them and I've checked for quite a while. My question is, is a pilot trainee posted to do OJT right after BOTC? Also, while on OJT (not on course), how much vacation time does one have? How often would I be able to go back home in MTL while on OJT per year for year for example?

Thanks,

SNyper

[Eye In The Sky]

With less than 5 years in, you have 20 Annual Leave days per year, plus all applicable Stat holidays, and throw in the applicable provincial days as well.

[George Wallace]

I'm sure these questions have been answered before.. I just can't seem to find them and I've checked for quite a while. My question is, is a pilot trainee posted to do OJT right after BOTC? Also, while on OJT (not on course), how much vacation time does one have? How often would I be able to go back home in MTL while on OJT per year for year for example?

Thanks,

SNyper

Depends on where you do OJT, how much money you have in your Bank account, and how much Lve you have left in the Fiscal Year.

[snyper21]

Thanks for the quick replys. The thing is I know someone right now in Trenton who works very few hours per week on his OJT. If someone is posted in Trenton for example, with such few working hours, are you on your own and can do what you please when not actually on the job? If your posted in Trenton would you be able to rent a place (not actually on the base), and possibly fly home on your spare time (i.e. weekend) if you'd like?

[Eye In The Sky]

If you are off duty and you have a leave pass (weekend) submitted (if required by your unit),  you should be able to go home.  If you know someone in Trenton, why didn't you just ask him/her?   

Oh and...Trenton is within reasonable driving time to Mtl IMO.

And yes, you can live off-base (aka on the economy) if you want.

[snyper21]

because I've been bothering him with way too many questions recently so I'd figure I would bother you guys

[TheCheez]

Thanks for the quick replys. The thing is I know someone right now in Trenton who works very few hours per week on his OJT. If someone is posted in Trenton for example, with such few working hours, are you on your own and can do what you please when not actually on the job? If your posted in Trenton would you be able to rent a place (not actually on the base), and possibly fly home on your spare time (i.e. weekend) if you'd like?

Generally you need a leave pass to leave the local area. If you go without and end up getting sick or crashing your car or something in Montreal you're going to have a fun time explaining why you're there.

Whether or not you have to take annual days if you're unofficially not expected to be at work is another matter and will depend highly on your boss and your situation. Once you're done basic and on OJT it is like a regular, civy job. Usually you have regular hours or shifts you have to be at work and the rest of the time is yours.

If being in Montreal is that important to you, try to OJT at 438 or the recruiting centre. It doesn't mean you've signed up for rotary.

[George Wallace]

Whether or not you have to take annual days if you're unofficially not expected to be at work is another matter and will depend highly on your boss and your situation. Once you're done basic and on OJT it is like a regular, civy job. Usually you have regular hours or shifts you have to be at work and the rest of the time is yours.

This advice is only good if you remain withing the geographic area of your workplace.  It is still good to have a Lve Pass in your hands for insurance reasons.

If you don't have a Lve Pass and you leave the geographic area, then you are setting yourself up for AWOL Charges.

[SupersonicMax]

What most units do is make you sign a blank leave pass in case you do something stupid like going away without a leave pass on a week end.  Don't count on it to go away without a leave pass.  It's actually really easy to get a leave pass for a week end...  As Someone else said, why not go to 438?

Max

[snyper21]

The thing is I've grown up in Montreal and I'm 21 so I'd be happy to leave this city/province. It's not that I'd prefer to be located as close as possible, it's just I'd like to know that I'm not stuck for months on end without visiting friends/friends for some time. I don't really care how far from my hometown I'm located, it's just a comfort thing knowing that if I wanted to I can visit Mtl. for a weekend if need be.

[Eye In The Sky]

The thing is I've grown up in Montreal and I'm 21 so I'd be happy to leave this city/province. It's not that I'd prefer to be located as close as possible, it's just I'd like to know that I'm not stuck for months on end without visiting friends/friends for some time. I don't really care how far from my hometown I'm located, it's just a comfort thing knowing that if I wanted to I can visit Mtl. for a weekend if need be.

Yes you can go home, if not working/on duty/on call/in crap etc, and as Supersonic Max has said, a weekend leave pass is no big deal.  I use them for weekends that have a Stat at the end of them (like this weekend coming, Thanksgiving, etc).

[snyper21]

great thanks for answering to a newb. I got another question about OJT, what do pilot trainees awaiting courses do to for fun or with their past time if located in a rural airforce base? I'm guessing theres a good social scene with guys and gals  ?

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yup, they sit around and stroke each other with compliments waiting for the day when they are strong enough to carry their ego's around all by themselves.....

[Good2Golf]

great thanks for answering to a newb. I got another question about OJT, what do pilot trainees awaiting courses do to for fun or with their past time if located in a rural airforce base? I'm guessing theres a good social scene with guys and gals  ?

...cow tipping...

[PMedMoe]

...cow tipping...

Mail box baseball.....

[benny88]

Yes you can go home, if not working/on duty/on call/in crap etc, and as Supersonic Max has said, a weekend leave pass is no big deal.  I use them for weekends that have a Stat at the end of them (like this weekend coming, Thanksgiving, etc).

Sorry to necro, but it fits the thread.

    Does this mean that for weekends NOT including a stat holiday, leave passes generally aren't used? I know all about leave passes and entitlement and how technically they are required, but in my limited experience I've seen many things like that, which I was taught to the letter of the law but which are lax in the real world.
    Don't jump on me, I know the rules, I'm not trying to cut corners. This is just one of those things I could see people giving the old wink to (like the example giving of signing a blank pass) but which I haven't been in long enough to find out for myself.
     For example, I am at school in London, my family is in Kitchener (outside 50 km, for those not from Ontario). But since my ULO (essentially a civilian clerk who liaison with ROTP members) has my cell phone number he says I'm good to go back and forth at my discretion (usually once a month or so) without any formal correspondence. Is this the way it would work for most units for similar distances? (Ie, going to a cottage or something on weekends close by, not travelling across the country)

Thanks.

[George Wallace]

I really don't know how many times we have to answer these same questions.  Have you taken the time to read any of your Leave Passes; or is just a matter that you stick it in your room and take off?  On your CF 100, in all that black lettering, is instructions to the holder (you) as to what you are to do in the case of accident, illness, or other catastrophe that may befall you.  It gives you, or the person giving you aid, clear instructions as to what you must do if something should happen to you.

The Leave Pass is a sort of "Insurance Policy" to cover your ***, should you be outside of the Unit Area and get into an accident or injured/ill.

If you want the answers to your "Conditional" questions, it is best to visit your OR and find out what the current Unit policy is.

[benny88]

I really don't know how many times we have to answer these same questions.  Have you taken the time to read any of your Leave Passes; or is just a matter that you stick it in your room and take off?  On your CF 100, in all that black lettering, is instructions to the holder (you) as to what you are to do in the case of accident, illness, or other catastrophe that may befall you.  It gives you, or the person giving you aid, clear instructions as to what you must do if something should happen to you.

The Leave Pass is a sort of "Insurance Policy" to cover your ***, should you be outside of the Unit Area and get into an accident or injured/ill.

   I said in my post I knew the letter of the law and why leave passes are used. I also said that not everything happens exactly by the book like I've been taught, and I was unsure if this was one of those things. I had/have reason to believe it's not, because, right or wrong, my ULO tells me I can travel outside of 50 km without one. So this spiel isn't really helpful or informative.
    If every single time you go outside of 50km you take a leave pass, fine. Like I said, I'm not looking to cut corners. But it's not a stupid question to ask when I have precedent to show that some ORs operate like that. Now here's the part where some of you will give me crap because "ROTP is not reflective of how things operate in the real CF" blah blah. And to that I say: Exactly. Which is why I'm asking the question in the first place. If my ULO is right out of it, I just want to know so I can adjust to the way things will be after I graduate. No need to throw the book at me.

[MJP]

Sorry to necro, but it fits the thread.

    Does this mean that for weekends NOT including a stat holiday, leave passes generally aren't used? I know all about leave passes and entitlement and how technically they are required, but in my limited experience I've seen many things like that, which I was taught to the letter of the law but which are lax in the real world.
    Don't jump on me, I know the rules, I'm not trying to cut corners. This is just one of those things I could see people giving the old wink to (like the example giving of signing a blank pass) but which I haven't been in long enough to find out for myself.
     For example, I am at school in London, my family is in Kitchener (outside 50 km, for those not from Ontario). But since my ULO (essentially a civilian clerk who liaison with ROTP members) has my cell phone number he says I'm good to go back and forth at my discretion (usually once a month or so) without any formal correspondence. Is this the way it would work for most units for similar distances? (Ie, going to a cottage or something on weekends close by, not travelling across the country)

Thanks.

Yes it happens quite a bit in the units that I have worked with.  I will qualify it with the fact that within a sect or Pl you would tell someone where you are going, so they can reach you if something happens.  That and it has to be reasonable in the distance that you will be.  Going fishing overnight an hour or two away fine.......skiing in Kamloops while posted in Edmonton not so good  

[benny88]

Yes it happens quite a bit in the units that I have worked with.  I will qualify it with the fact that within a sect or Pl you would tell someone where you are going, so they can reach you if something happens.  That and it has to be reasonable in the distance that you will be.  Going fishing overnight an hour or two away fine.......skiing in Kamloops while posted in Edmonton not so good

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks MJP. I understand it varies from unit to unit, but thanks for giving a general picture.

[George Wallace]

   I said in my post I knew the letter of the law and why leave passes are used. I also said that not everything happens exactly by the book like I've been taught, and I was unsure if this was one of those things. I had/have reason to believe it's not, because, right or wrong, my ULO tells me I can travel outside of 50 km without one. So this spiel isn't really helpful or informative.
    If every single time you go outside of 50km you take a leave pass, fine. Like I said, I'm not looking to cut corners. But it's not a stupid question to ask when I have precedent to show that some ORs operate like that. Now here's the part where some of you will give me crap because "ROTP is not reflective of how things operate in the real CF" blah blah. And to that I say: Exactly. Which is why I'm asking the question in the first place. If my ULO is right out of it, I just want to know so I can adjust to the way things will be after I graduate. No need to throw the book at me.

You know if you only RTFP you would have seen the last line:


If you want the answers to your "Conditional" questions, it is best to visit your OR and find out what the current Unit policy is.

[benny88]

You know if you only RTFP you would have seen the last line:


If you want the answers to your "Conditional" questions, it is best to visit your OR and find out what the current Unit policy is.

    The reason that's not applicable right now for me is because I haven't been posted yet, I should have said as much. I understand that the example MJP gave is not an overarching policy, I was just looking for some examples of what to expect. I have some now, so you can put away your big font.
   

[George Wallace]

The big font was just for you.

Leave Passes serve a purpose.  Unit Policies regarding their use will change from time to time and Unit to Unit. 

For instance: some Units have their members fill out a CF 100, leaving the Address and dates blank, and keep them on file to cover these short weekend sorties, and then keep them on file to safeguard their members.

However, should you be in an accident or such, outside your Unit Area, then some "Bean Counter" may stick by the Rules, Black and White/NO shades of Gray, and tell you that you ARE NOT entitled to any form of compensation or benefits.  That is why you are encouraged to have one.

That is why there is large font for you.  Other than saying that this does happen, we can not give you a conditional answer to your questions; only your supporting Unit can. 

[benny88]

    We're going in circles. All I wanted to know is whether it EVER happens the way that MJP and now you have described, where the red tape is circumvented for things like local, weekend trips, not how it always happens. I understand and have never implied otherwise that it could and will be different from unit to unit, so we can stop rehashing that. And I don't need the purposes of a CF 100 explained to me, I understand its use and purpose, but I know enough to know that the way it's written is not always the way it's done, hence my original question.

     I think we're on the same page now, thanks for the information. Understand that I'm floating in a limbo in my career because I know (or at least know how to find) much of the relevant information, but lack the experience to put it in context, which I think you're taking for granted.

Cheers

[NFLD Sapper]

Simply put.....

When in doubt fill out a Lve Pass.