Author Topic: Naval Combat Systems Engineer ( NCSE )  (Read 26814 times)

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Offline tt

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Naval Combat Systems Engineer ( NCSE )
« on: August 11, 2008, 22:27:34 »
Who knows the security clearance level of Naval Combat Systems Engineering(Officer)? Thanks!

Offline the 48th regulator

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Offline thewildandelusivebacon

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Naval Combat Systems Engineer ( NCSE )
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2011, 10:02:58 »
Hi guys this is my first Post!  :)


I was wondering about the Naval Combat Systems Officer (NCSO) I know the take care of the ships large guns and torpedos (spelling?) but in the event of an enemy ship/sub/plane etc, would the NCSO actually fire the gun at the ship? If the NCSO isn't the one fireing these, who is?

Thanks :snowman:

Offline gcclarke

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2011, 10:19:53 »
Nope. Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officers are responsible for making sure the stuff works. The ones who fire the weapons are either Maritime Surface / Subsurface Officers (aka MARS Officers), and Naval Electronic Sensor Operators (For the guns and missiles), or Sonar Ops, for the Torps, and on occasion Naval Weapons Techs for the Close In Weapons System (CIWS).

When at action stations, the CSEO is in charge of the Emergency Response Team, whose primary role is emergency repairs to equipment, ensuring that the operators have the equipment available that they need to continue fighting the good fight.
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Offline Occam

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2011, 10:25:14 »
Nope. Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officers are responsible for making sure the technicians make sure the stuff works.

Fixed that for ya.   ;)

Wouldn't want to give the impression we trust you guys with tools or anything sharper than a pencil or sliderule.   ;D

Offline gcclarke

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2011, 10:36:15 »
Fixed that for ya.   ;)

Wouldn't want to give the impression we trust you guys with tools or anything sharper than a pencil or sliderule.   ;D

To an extent, true. However, an Engineering Officer's tools are the members of his or her department. But yeah, definitely not trusted with a multimeter.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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Offline alejo

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 09:05:48 »
Hey come on guys. Not all of us potential NCSEO have no idea how to handle tools!
  ???

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 09:57:56 »
Alejo:

Glad to see you caught on the lingo fast. Yes, it is NCSE O, sometimes referred to only as CSE O. An NCSO is a Naval Control of Shipping Officer, a specialty found only in the naval reserve (if any are left). They concerned themselves with the organization, coordination and control of merchant ship convoys.

Offline Occam

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 10:39:05 »
Hey come on guys. Not all of us potential NCSEO have no idea how to handle tools!
  ???

If I saw a CSE O with a screwdriver, it had better be for opening a can of beer!   ;D

Offline gcclarke

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 12:38:53 »
Hey come on guys. Not all of us potential NCSEO have no idea how to handle tools!
  ???

Well, it's not only a matter of whether or not you know how to handle tools in general. It's also whether or not you know how to use them on the kit in question. And more to the point, it's also not your job. Even former techs who joined the dark side generally aren't "allowed" to work hands on.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline JMesh

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 19:43:10 »
An NCSO is a Naval Control of Shipping Officer, a specialty found only in the naval reserve (if any are left). They concerned themselves with the organization, coordination and control of merchant ship convoys.

Quick side note: There are no specific NCSOs left. This aspect (now Naval Cooperation and Guidance for Shipping - NCAGS) has become a part of the job of NAVRES Int Os.

[/tangent]

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2011, 09:33:56 »
Hey come on guys. Not all of us potential NCSEO have no idea how to handle tools!
  ???

This is true... but handle them at home.   ;D 

The NE/NWT's have training on the kit that you do not. Imagine this one... An Investigation is convened to examine why a high price piece was broken. They find out that an un-qualified personnel was maintaining the kit. I'm sure you can figure out the rest.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2011, 10:36:26 »
Well, it's not only a matter of whether or not you know how to handle tools in general. It's also whether or not you know how to use them on the kit in question. And more to the point, it's also not your job. Even former techs who joined the dark side generally aren't "allowed" to work hands on.


This is a key point for all serving and aspiring CF members: each person has a job, (s)he is assigned to that job because (s)he has (someone hopes (s)he has) a suitable mix of skills and knowledge to do that job and, simultaneously, to learn from that job so as to prepare himself/herself for promotion - for harder, more demanding jobs.

For officers, especially, this may be a bit frustrating - you may wish that you could be doing some of the "hands on" and "fun" stuff than the NCMs are doing, but that's their job, not yours. I watched this envy thing play out, over and over again, during a 35+ year career involving a few different cap badges - officers and senior NCMs who adjusted, quickly and easily, to the fact that they have their jobs and junior people have other jobs, got along fine; those who wanted to do someone else's job usually failed - often miserably - at both.

And don't get me started on officers, mid-ranked and senior, who come to Ottawa and want to do civil servants' jobs while ignoring their own, military, duties.
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Offline Mike5

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2011, 13:58:31 »
This is an interesting discussion of the role of a Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer.  Can anyone describe a typical day in the life of an NCSEO ?  It sounds like the closest analogous civilian role would be the manager of a computer software / hardware support team?

I understand this is not a PRes role?

Thanks in advance for any discussion,

Mike
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Offline Occam

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2011, 14:28:36 »
This is an interesting discussion of the role of a Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer.  Can anyone describe a typical day in the life of an NCSEO ?  It sounds like the closest analogous civilian role would be the manager of a computer software / hardware support team?

I understand this is not a PRes role?

Thanks in advance for any discussion,

Mike

Not just computer software/hardware, but manager to the technical support teams for Comm/Nav/Radar/Sonar/Weapons systems as well.

Offline drunknsubmrnr

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2011, 16:48:02 »
Alejo,

I wouldn't want you to get the wrong idea. I once let a CSEO solder a switch, under close supervision. I was responsible to my CSE chief and the XO for the work being done right though, and it was a somewhat of a nerve-wracking experience. It's not something you would routinely expect.

Offline gcclarke

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 05:42:11 »
This is an interesting discussion of the role of a Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer.  Can anyone describe a typical day in the life of an NCSEO ?  It sounds like the closest analogous civilian role would be the manager of a computer software / hardware support team?

I understand this is not a PRes role?

Thanks in advance for any discussion,

Mike

I wouldn't argue that you're far off the mark, at least not while posted to a ship, or a unit directly supporting ships (such as the flee maintenance facilities or the coast's J37s [engineering operations] organizations). In those roles, you're very much so involved in making sure that the work that needs to get done gets done. But certainly not in doing it yourself. Whether you're prioritizing work, or reporting back to shore authorities to make sure that your boss's boss's boss knows what is wrong with your stuff, it's all about doing your best to deliver capability to the fleet, be it your ship, or all of them that is your responsibility.

In other positions, it's often about doing your best to develop solutions for the future capability of the CF's navy. This may be about training personnel who will in the future fix things, or it may be about working on the project management team that helps guide the course of any future procurement for the fleet of the future.

As for my typical day, I spend a large portion of it dealing with paperwork, whether it be the messages we have to send off telling shore establishments that some of our stuff is broken, dealing with a guy who has failed on his EXPRES test, or making sure that a member gets a new Terms of Service offer for continued employment beyond their initial contract. And everything else in between. But again, a lot of that is due to where I am posted, and either won't happen or will be less likely to happen while posted ashore.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 12:04:47 »
I'm a supervisor NE Tech....if I'm doing my job right, my guys do all the work, and I just back-stop them if they run out of ideas on a problem.  I shouldn't have too many tools in my hands either.

If a CSEO has tools in his hand, it'd best be to open up his desk drawer that he lost the key for, 'cause if it's for any of my kit, he's on his own, after being asked politely if he has anything else he should be doing...
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Offline ItsJustOscar

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2011, 11:17:38 »

For officers, especially, this may be a bit frustrating - you may wish that you could be doing some of the "hands on" and "fun" stuff than the NCMs are doing, but that's their job, not yours.

Are all Officers positions aboard tedious and administrative (for the lack of better words), or are there some that include hands on work?

Or, do NCMs have all the fun?  :)

 :cdn:
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2011, 11:22:06 »
Are all Officers positions aboard tedious and administrative (for the lack of better words), or are there some that include hands on work?

Or, do NCMs have all the fun?  :)

 :cdn:

If you want to be hands on, then the NCM side is better. CSEO's do administrative work. CSE NCM's do the hands on.
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2011, 22:32:26 »
Are all Officers positions aboard tedious and administrative (for the lack of better words), or are there some that include hands on work?

Or, do NCMs have all the fun?  :)

 :cdn:

For engineers, yes. Well, that is to say, a large portion of their time is spent in administrative tasks, and they aren't allowed to do hands on work. The MARS guys have a much more "hands on" job than engineers (and LogOs). Which isn't to say that they don't have their fair share or boring and tedious administrative work as well!
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline ItsJustOscar

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2011, 09:57:51 »
But again, a lot of that is due to where I am posted, and either won't happen or will be less likely to happen while posted ashore.

What exactly would you be doing while posted ashore?
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Officer Question?
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2011, 14:58:03 »
Training. Administration related to the support of the current fleet. Administration related to development of future capability. Etc.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
- Calvin Coolidge

Offline JSingh04

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Naval Combat Systems Engineer ( NCSE )
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2012, 08:39:36 »
Hello there,

I'm applying to be a NCSE officer and would like to hear from you If you're already in this profesion. What are some pros and cons. All the info I have is just from the website and I'd like to get a better view on this. How does it compare to other engineering professions offered by the Canadian forces? Thanks is advance.

Offline estoguy

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Re: Naval Combat Systems Engineer Pros/Cons
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2012, 16:57:54 »
One thing I did learn about it when researching trades is that you do need a science or engineering degree.  Unless they have updated the printed information on forces.ca, at the time it didn't state it directly.  That requirement was in the video however.  I called and they did confirm that.

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