Author Topic: Russia's Arctic Militarization (merged)  (Read 50613 times)

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Offline gun runner

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2008, 15:12:17 »
Well if this recent activity in Georgia is an indicator of how well Russia listens to the international community, then our case for the arctic that belongs to us will be a fart in the wind to them. They will do their best to strongarm that property from us in spite of what our friends and neighbours think. Ubique
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Sir Winston Churchill.

The only thing for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing. Edmond Burke.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2008, 11:54:52 »
Hmmm... we're more like a buffer zone sometimes...

Or, if the Liberals win....butterfly zones...
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Offline gun runner

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2008, 21:05:52 »
God... I hope they don't win.Ubique
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Sir Winston Churchill.

The only thing for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing. Edmond Burke.

Offline TacticalW

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2008, 22:04:53 »
Or, if the Liberals win....butterfly zones...

Dear god no...

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2008, 00:31:15 »
God... I hope they don't win.Ubique

What? You wouldn't want to see 'Senator' Dallaire take over as Defence Minister? Geez....
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline TCBF

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2008, 00:43:01 »
- Forget about sinking tax dollars in Canadian ships for the arctic.  Any will be too little too late.  What we need to develop are more bases on the islands.  You can't sink an island.  Surv bases along the NW Passage and some sort of un-manned sub-surface monitoring north of Ellesmere Island.  Phase III would be a fire-and-forget shore launched under-ice torpedo.
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2008, 00:47:06 »
Cormorants with ice drills?
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

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Offline TCBF

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2008, 00:51:16 »
Cormorants with ice drills?

- You're onto something there..

... Get over the sub, drill though the ice, then pump in that really neat stuff that raises the freezing point of salt water.  Presto - instant ice-cube around the intruder.

 8)
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2008, 00:55:40 »
I say we just train our Polar Bears to attack nuclear subs. It looks like some have already passed this PO check:

http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/bears_sub1.aspx

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline RangerRay

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2008, 03:09:28 »
Well, Dion says we shouldn't even try...

Link

Quote
Mr. Dion said protecting Arctic sovereignty is vital, but he said Liberals see no point in picking a military fight with other countries staking a claim in the north.

"We cannot win against the Americans, we cannot win against the Russians and . . . we are too civilized to shoot the Danes," he said during a campaign stopover in Alexandria east of Ottawa. The Tories responded saying the Liberals have thrown in the towel on defending the Arctic.


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Offline Snakedoc

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2008, 12:13:13 »
I say we just train our Polar Bears to attack nuclear subs. It looks like some have already passed this PO check:

http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/bears_sub1.aspx



Wow those pictures are hilarious haha.  Good for Stephen Harper making a campaign stop in the north yesterday.  None of the other leaders have given as much focus to the arctic as he has...let alone gone up there to reinforce its importance to Canada.

Offline Greymatters

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2008, 12:35:52 »
Well, Dion says we shouldn't even try... 

Exactly what we need in a future PM - pessimism and a defeatist attitude...   ::)

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2008, 13:34:13 »
Watching this guy spin in circles chasing his tail is amusing...for a while.  Later though, you start to feel sorry for the poor neurotic critter fella.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline gun runner

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2008, 14:15:24 »
Any effort we attempt in the arctic will have to be a really good one right from the get-go.  No ***** footing around! Build a military/Coast guard facility, and staff it with the kind of professionals that we are known to be and put the pressure back on the @ssholes that think they can waltz in here and take what isn't theirs to take. Strong and free! not any more... Strong yes, free no!! Ubique
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Sir Winston Churchill.

The only thing for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing. Edmond Burke.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2008, 14:54:35 »
Or.... we base out of Edmonton - or someplace like that - and swamp the north with more cost effective sensors to augment/ support the Rangers, and have an efficent QRF that can go anywhere, anytime, fast.

Gee, you could even reinstitiute the Airborne Regiment (sharp intake of breath) and prove that you can deliver a war capable battle group to any spot in the north within a few hours/days.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2008, 15:57:56 »
Or.... we base out of Edmonton - or someplace like that - and swamp the north with more cost effective sensors to augment/ support the Rangers, and have an efficent QRF that can go anywhere, anytime, fast.

Gee, you could even reinstitiute the Airborne Regiment (sharp intake of breath) and prove that you can deliver a war capable battle group to any spot in the north within a few hours/days.

With an all-season road to Inuvik for the establishment of a Forward Operating Base capable of supporting Resolute, Alert and Iqaluit.   And then you are just about right back to 1968 (or at least the Pre-Trudeau vision).
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

"If change isn’t allowed to be a process, it becomes an event." - Penny Mordaunt 10/10/2019

“Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards” ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Offline drunknsubmrnr

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2008, 18:07:27 »
The Russians are only allowed to claim up to 350 nm from their baselines. I really doubt that conflicts with any Canadian territorial claims.

Like most of the current governments position on the Arctic, this is much ado about nothing.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2008, 15:23:57 »
A letter of mine in the Ottawa Citizen Sept. 26:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/letters/story.html?id=22656e35-8c06-462a-bdc8-da2e94cfa2fe

Quote
Areas of dispute

Re: Boots on tundra, Sept. 23.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/views/story.html?id=b05f0a48-8514-4342-a418-c486885788b8

Letter-writer Bob Lidstone writes that "Simply put, a failure on Canada's part to put our boots on our Arctic tundra will inevitably result in someone else's being there." Hardly.

Mr. Lidstone has fallen victim to the efforts of the Conservative government to stoke jingoistic fervour [for example]
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics/story.html?id=c56381f6-ba5b-4a13-b566-fcf20f3570e6&k=85176
over the north. In fact no one except the Danes (Hans Island) has any claim on any Canadian land in the north. Foreign countries are about as likely to invade the north as they are to invade Newfoundland.

The areas of dispute are the status in maritime law of the Northwest Passage; the maritime boundary in the Beaufort Sea between the U.S. and Canada; and the economic rights to the Arctic seabed in offshore areas beyond various countries' coastal 320-kilometre exclusive economic zones.

Boots on the tundra will be of little help in asserting Canadian claims in any of these cases.

Sodden footware, I'd say, to assert sovereignty claims in the aquatic environment.

Mark
Ottawa
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aesop081

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2008, 15:26:58 »
Stiring up nationalistic feelings over land areas and such has worked in some countries in the past ( Argentna for one), i dont know how it will go over here in Canada.

Online GAP

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2008, 16:17:59 »
eh
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline BravoCharlie

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2009, 14:36:18 »
From
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090327/canada/russia_diplomacy_energy_arctic_defence_canada

OTTAWA (AFP) - The Canadian government on Friday reaffirmed its Arctic claims, saying it will defend its northern territories and waters after Russia earlier announced plans to militarize the North

...more on link.


All fires have to burn alive.

Offline time expired

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Re: Russia threatens to seize swathe of Arctic
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2009, 14:54:59 »
Russians forming elite unit to enforce its Arctic claims,heard
on France 24 news today,looks like their serious.Are we?.
                              Regards
nothing is better for the morale of the troops
as occasionally to see a dead general
               field marshal slim

Offline Inky

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Russia wants to deploy two brigades in the arctic.
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2011, 12:11:09 »
Here reproduced in accordance with the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-07/01/c_13961385.htm

Quote
MOSCOW, July 1 (Xinhua) -- Russia would deploy two brigades in the Arctic to defend its interests in the region, Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said Friday.
 
"The General Staff is currently drafting plans to establish two such formations. Those plans should take into account deployment sites, armaments, number of servicemen and infrastructure," the defense minister told reporters.
 
He added that the troops may be stationed in the northern Russian cities of Murmansk or Arkhangelsk, but other locations are also being considered.
 
Serdyukov noted that the Russian Armed Forces also intended to created similar formations in other Arctic countries, such as Finland, Norway and Sweden.
 
Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Thursday reiterated that Russia will strengthen its presence in the Arctic and protect its geopolitical interests in the region "firmly and consistently."


Do the Russians even possess the capabilities to deploy several brigade sized formations in the arctic? Does this mean anything for us?

Offline old medic

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Re: Russia wants to deploy two brigades in the arctic.
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2011, 12:40:06 »
Quote
the Russian Armed Forces also intended to created similar formations in other Arctic countries, such as Finland, Norway and Sweden.

Very doubtful story from a chinese website.

re-answering vision questions since 2004.

Offline Inky

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Re: Russia wants to deploy two brigades in the arctic.
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2011, 13:22:52 »
Perhaps a more credible source:

From Reuters, reproduced in accordance with the fair dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/07/01/russia-arctic-troops-idUKLDE76017D20110701

Quote
* General Staff working on plan to boost presence in Arctic
 * Russia set to start producing Bulava nuclear missile

By Thomas Grove

 MOSCOW, July 1 (Reuters) - Moscow will create two brigades to protect its valuable Arctic resources, Russia's defence minister said on Friday.

 Moscow has walked a fine line between cooperation and aggression in the Arctic which the world's top energy producer believes could hold huge reserves of natural gas and oil.

 "The General Staff is currently working on plans to create two such units," Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov was quoted as telling media by state-run news agency Itar-Tass.

 Declining to go into detail, he added: "The location will be determined, as well as weapons, numbers and infrastructure for the brigades."

 Global warming has boosted expectations that the Arctic may provide mining, fishing and shipping prospects for the countries that have claims on the region -- Russia, the United States, Denmark, Greenland, Canada, Norway and China.

 Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Thursday that Russia would boost its presence in the region to protect its interests.

 "As for our own geo-political interests (in the Arctic) are concerned, we shall be protecting them firmly and consistently," Putin told a meeting of his ruling United Russia party on Thursday in the Urals city of Yekaterinburg.

 Late last year Russia delineated new Arctic borders with Norway and agreed to ease frontier controls in the hope of further cooperation in oil and gas exploration.

 Russian gas export monopoly Gazprom (GAZP.MM) runs two major gas projects in the Arctic, including one with Statoil (STL.OL), while state-run oil major Rosneft (ROSN.MM) and BP (BP.L) operate at three Kara Sea fields.

Serdyukov also said that Russia was in a position to start production of its intercontinental Bulava missile following the most recent successful test of the armament this week.

 His ministry has said the missile, which the Kremlin wants to make the cornerstone of its nuclear arms programme, will undergo four more tests this year before being introduced into service.

 Previous failures -- seven out of 15 tests -- had called into question the viability of the programme.

 "The Bulava flew well. And that's good news," Interfax news agency quoted him as saying. "We understand exactly that in this case it is possible to start serial production of the rocket."

 Russia is looking to modernise its armaments and Putin has promised to spend nearly 20 trillion roubles ($718.4 billion) over the next decade upgrading its armed forces.

 One missile can hold six to 10 nuclear warheads, which would deliver an impact of up to 100 times the atomic blast that devastated Hiroshima in 1945.