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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2009, 08:06:06 »
And here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, is Christie Blatchford’s take on the issue:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/theres-no-one-who-could-argue-the-current-system-is-working-as-it-should/article1324208/
Quote
There's no one who could argue the current system is working as it should
 
CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD

Thursday, Oct. 15, 2009
 
When I told a colleague yesterday I'd spent the day at the extradition hearing for Abdullah Khadr, she asked, "anything interesting happen?"

"I haven't a clue," I replied.

Such as A) the specific nature of court proceedings against various members of the notorious first family of Canadian terrorism, and B) the general nature of Canadian court proceedings in terrorism-related matters that much of the evidence is kept from Canadians, and what is left to decipher is often indecipherable.

Consider that yesterday before Ontario Superior Court judge Christopher Speyer, for instance, the witness in the stand was frequently directed to something called "the Private Reasons of Justice Mosley" (this would be Federal Court Judge Richard Mosley, who made an order in the case allowing some previously secret information to be publicly disclosed), various bits of which are still redacted (this means censored), none of which is in the public domain.

Also consider that today's witness will be a CSIS agent, who will testify from behind a screen in order that his ability to continue working in the field is not compromised.

I have two things to say about that.

The first is that not too long ago, I had occasion to speak to a group of CSIS agents (the contents of my speech and the assembled group must remain ears-only of course, and I frankly fear I may have breached the Official Secrets Act by disclosing this little) and suffice it to say that for someone who went hoping to see someone remotely like the actor Daniel Craig (the new James Bond: the new and comely James Bond), preferably in the blue trunks he wore in Casino Royale, it was a crushing disappointment. You could meet some of the CSIS agents I saw that night a thousand times and not remember their faces the next second, so relentlessly ordinary-and-suburban-looking a group are they.

The second thing is, that if witnesses are called from the federal Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, or DFAIT as the branch is always called - as could happen, since some of their folks were involved when Abdullah was being held in Pakistan before coming back to Canada - I suggested they be allowed to testify from behind lace hankies or parasols, so as to reflect their greater delicacy and less tolerance for the bad behaviour that CSIS and RCMP types allegedly tolerate more easily.

If this makes no sense, perfect. That is just how the courts like it. We're all too stupid to understand anyway.

After court, I ran a couple of searches for previous court decisions, using the Khadr v. Canada search term.

In Federal Court, my query returned 42 results, 13 of them direct decisions in cases involving various Khadrs.

Two involve Abdullah, who is now 28 and facing extradition by the United States on charges he was an arms supplier to al-Qaeda, including allegedly hydrogen peroxide used in the making of land mines which he told authorities would be used against U.S. and coalition forces in Afghanistan (and thus against Canadians).

One case involves his brother Abdurahman, who isn't charged with anything and has never been deemed a threat, but who three years ago was fighting his refusal of a Canadian passport, which had been denied him on the grounds of national security because of his acknowledged al-Qaeda family. He ended up being allowed to reapply.

The other 10 cases involved their brother Omar, who is being held at Guantanamo Bay and is alleged to have thrown a grenade that killed a U.S. soldier in Afghanistan in 2002.

A similar search of Supreme Court of Canada decisions, using the same term, returned 33 results.

The point is that the prosecution/representation of the various Khadrs has been a real growth industry in this country, and to little discernible result in that Omar is still in Cuba and Abdullah is still here in Canada and the female Khadrs who show up in court, some of them as veiled and covered as the process itself, still read ostentatiously from the Koran, clicking their tongues as they go.

I should add that Dennis Edney, the most affable Scot who has been the family's most steadfast lawyer over all these years, has done a huge chunk of work for free, or as the bar calls it, pro bono. Mr. Edney blushed in embarrassment when I asked him about this yesterday, clearly uncomfortable. But he admitted he's probably spent $100,000 of his own money representing the family, even as he demurred, with a grin, "there's no Scottish word for pro bono."

His burr, incidentally, means that though he was reading into the record, as questions, some of Judge Mosley's Private Reasons yesterday, thus theoretically bringing some of it into the public domain, it was still tricky to decipher.

At the end of the day, I don't think there's anyone who could argue that the current system is working very well - certainly not for Canadians, who seem never to get an answer to the only question that ever matters in these cases, that is, is X a terrorist or not?

The two Khadrs, for instance, have spent between them more than a decade in jails in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Cuba and Canada but never once faced a proper trial, held in the open. They are alleged to have committed heinous acts; they claim to be the victims of heinous torture that their lawyers say renders any alleged confessions fruit of the poisoned tree and thus unreliable. Where does the truth lie between those extremes and will we ever know, or will we just keep them in jail as long as we can and then pay out millions in damages when they're released, as if we are sorry?


Blatchford is right: Canadians, all Canadians – even those accused of some security offences, are ill served by the existing “system.”

The first duty of the sovereign, in other words of all of us, is to defend the realm against “all enemies, foreign and domestic,” as our American friends love to say.

We have “domestic enemies.” “We” have had them so long as there has been a “we.” It is the duty of the national government to:

•   Protect us from those enemies; but

•   To protect “our” fundamental civil rights at the same time.

It’s a hideously complex task but there is no excuse for not getting the job done. The people who have the duty to “do the job” are members of parliament, especially those who are members of the government and, amongst those, the members of the cabinet led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Offline leroi

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2009, 12:17:07 »
Maybe now that these cases are being successfully prosecuted more details will emerge about the plot. Some good videos of the "take down" and the terrorist "trigger test" and about five other videos are contained in this Globe and Mail article of October 20, 2009 authored by Colin Freeze. The videos can be located by scrolling to bottom of article.

Videos Give Public Glimpse of Homegrown Terror Plot

LINK

These dramatic videos, released Tuesday by the Ontario Superior court, tell the tale of an al-Qaeda inspired cell of “homegrown” Canadian terrorists.

In June, 2006, a group of young extremists plotted to detonate deadly fertilizer-based truck bombs in downtown Toronto and at a Canadian Forces base. Scores of people, perhaps hundreds, could have been killed by the blast. The aim was to terrorize the populace, and pressure politicians to pull soldiers from the continuing NATO mission in Afghanistan.

Many of the preparations were caught on tape, either in recordings the suspects made, or via devices covertly installed by authorities. Police infiltrated the group and, after months of surveillance, rounded up suspects on June 2, 2006, the day a “sting” shipment of ammonium-nitrate fertilizer was shipped to the group's key players.

The footage reveals the plans of Zakaria Amara and, to a lesser extent, his co-conspirators Saad Khalid and Saad Gaya. This group of young men from Mississauga, Ont., recently admitted their guilt in open court. The common plea? They conspired to cause massive explosions in downtown Toronto.

The videos were played as evidence during court proceedings, but were only made available following a Globe and Mail application for public release of the footage.

A half dozen suspects remain before the courts, but only one of them is implicated in the bomb plot. The rest face lesser terrorism charges. It is anticipated their trial will begin in January. None of the videos posted here identify any of the remaining accused, whose identities are shielded by court-ordered publication bans.

Here reproduced in accordance with the Fair Dealing provision (29) of the Copyright Act.

Offline MARS

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2009, 10:12:25 »
New CSIS director criticizes Canadian opinion leaders, shared in accordance with the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

------------------------------------
Canada oblivious to terror danger: CSIS boss
 
New director takes aim at critics in first public speech
 
By Ian MacLeod, The Ottawa CitizenOctober 30, 2009 6:36 AM

OTTAWA — Despite a history of domestic terrorism, from Air India to the Toronto 18, Canada has a “serious blind spot” acknowledging that violent extremism imperils our national security, says the new head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

In his first public speech since becoming Canada’s spy master this summer, Richard B. Fadden wasted no time Thursday railing against those he believes ignore, minimize and even applaud terrorism and the people caught up in it, while portraying government efforts to combat extremism as assaults on liberty.

“Almost any attempt to fight terrorism by the government is portrayed as an overreaction or an assault on liberty. It is a peculiar position, given that terrorism is the ultimate attack on liberties,” Fadden told an Ottawa conference of about 300 security and intelligence specialists.

In advocating for a more mature, nuanced debate on national security, Fadden directed his harshest comments at news media, a “loose partnership of single-issue NGOs, advocacy journalists and lawyers,” and Canadians who naively believe, “our charm and the Maple Leaf on our backpacks are all that we need to protect us.

“Why … are those accused of terrorist offences often portrayed in media as quasi-folk heroes, despite the harsh statements of numerous judges? Why are they always photographed with their children, given tender-hearted profiles, and more or less taken at their word when they accuse CSIS or other government agencies of abusing them?

“I … am not arguing that those accused of offences should be portrayed as guilty,” Fadden added. “In fact, a more balanced presentation is what I am hoping for.”

Instead, he said, accused terrorists are routinely portrayed as too unsophisticated, ill-prepared or youthful to actually commit such heinous acts. That theme, “permeates a fair amount of the coverage of those charged in the Toronto plot.

“I seriously doubt, however, whether editors would allow this kind of reasoning to be used in news coverage of those accused of murder or robbery.”

.....more at the link
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2009, 19:57:43 »
"Man who made hoax terror calls gets 12 months: "TORONTO — A Mississauga, Ont., man who pleaded guilty to making hoax terrorist calls has been sentenced to 12 months in jail.":
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091126/hoax_calls_091126/20091126/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2009, 13:15:21 »
This, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, illustrates why we need a thorough overhaul of our entire immigration and refuges systems, beginning with the fact that the two totally unrelated, on to the other:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/court-strikes-down-security-certificate-against-almrei/article1399619/
Quote
Court strikes down security certificate against Almrei
Syrian-born man was arrested eight years ago on terror suspicions; Ottawa had been trying to deport him on seldom-used provision of immigration law

Ottawa — The Canadian Press
Monday, Dec. 14, 2009

A federal judge has struck down a national security certificate against a Syrian-born man arrested eight years ago on terror suspicions.
The ruling today by Federal Court Justice Richard Mosley effectively frees Hassan Almrei.

The government had been trying to deport Mr. Almrei on a security certificate – a seldom-used provision of the immigration law for removing suspected terrorists and spies.

Mr. Almrei's lawyer, Lorne Waldman, said from Toronto his client was “very excited” over the ruling. Mr. Waldman had not yet read the full decision, and said he and Mr. Almrei would comment later.

The government argued the Syrian native's travel, activities and involvement in a false-document ring were consistent with supporters of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.

The ruling says there were reasonable grounds to believe Mr. Almrei was a security danger when detained in October 2001, but there are no longer reasonable grounds to believe that today.

It also says federal cabinet ministers breached their duties of “good faith and candour” to the court by not thoroughly reviewing the information on file prior to re-issuing the certificate against Mr. Almrei in February of last year.

The case is another in a series of blows to the security certificate law. The federal government has launched a sweeping review after acknowledging the system needs fixing.

The review could scrap or revamp the law used to arrest and deport non-Canadians considered a threat to national security.

Certificates have existed for three decades, and more than two dozen have been issued since 1991, when they became part of federal immigration law.

But recent cases have slowed to a crawl – or collapsed altogether – amid legal challenges and upbraidings from judges over miscues by Canada's spy agency.

The government has initiated just six certificate cases – four terror suspects, a hatemonger and an alleged Russian spy – since the 9/11 attacks on the United States.

Among critics, the deportation tool has come to symbolize the worst excesses of the fight against Islamic extremism.

Opponents say the process is fundamentally unfair because detainees are not given full details of the allegations against them.

A case involving Montrealer Adil Charkaoui, a native of Morocco, fell apart recently when the government withdrew supporting evidence, saying its disclosure would reveal sensitive intelligence sources and methods of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

Mr. Charkaoui, a French teacher and father of three, wants compensation for his six-year ordeal.

Four active cases range from seven to 10 years old, illustrating the legal limbo that certificates can create for detainees.

Mahmoud Jaballah and Mohamed Zeki Mahjoub, both Egyptian, were arrested in 1999 and 2000 respectively, while Mr. Almrei was detained one month after Sept. 11, 2001, and Mohamed Harkat of Algeria seven years ago this month.

All four men were granted release from prison under strict conditions that have controlled virtually their every move while the cases play out in the Federal Court of Canada.


I have no problem with the judge’s decision, as I understand it; he is interpreting the law, as written, in the light of the Charter, etc. The problem is with the laws and regulations that aid criminals and terrorists rather than protecting Canada from them.

We must begin by using the notwithstanding clause of the Constitution to do away with e.g. Singh v Canada (Minister of Employment and Immigration) that, effectively, granted Charter protection to every single individual who manages, by hook or by crook, to get one foot on Canadian territory. The decision is pernicious and must be overturned or nothing else can be done.

Then, Charter rights and protections must be earned by newcomers on a graduated basis: legal resident, landed immigrant and, finally, citizen.

As a corollary, persons who enter Canada improperly or illegally must be granted only the most fundamental human rights but those must not include protection from immediate deportation to the last (safe) place in which they were. (There are some obvious case where exceptions will be made.) But, that is, essentially, a refugee problem. People who arrive here illegally, intending to either find refuge or, most often, stay and settle (in other words: immigrate) apply as refugees. We must not allow it. There is a precise definition of refugee as “a person who, owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of their nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail him/herself of the protection of that country” and as a person who is fleeing war or violence. We, as human beings and as amongst the most fortunate people in the world have a human duty to help these people but that duty does not extend to making them into immigrants. Real refuges do not want to immigrate; real refugees want to go home, as soon as it is safe to do so. We can help, mostly, in two ways:

1.   By providing safe, humane ‘refuges’ near the refugees’ homes; and

2.   By helping to sort out the situation that created the refugees in the first place – that may involve the use of armed force.

Obviously, sometimes, neither of those courses will work and resettling refugees in Canada, as immigrants, will be the only solution but it should be the exception, not the rule.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline mellian

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2009, 14:32:34 »
From what I can tell, especially Harkat whose case I am more familiar with, they tried to immigrate. Just that the process can take while, and unable to return where they are from to wait, both in fear of getting persecuted and because what they had to do to get to Canada in the first place.

If one is the run from authorities from home for whatever reason, it becomes lot harder to get to Canada legally, let alone start immigration process outside of Canada. So the alternative is unfortunately find shady ways of get there, which can result needing to contact people security agencies around the world do not like and consider security threats.

So some folks get issued security certificates and arrested for nearly a decade of their lives simply because they were in contact with some bad folks even if it was only once and very brief?


Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2009, 14:52:51 »
...
So some folks get issued security certificates and arrested for nearly a decade of their lives simply because they were in contact with some bad folks even if it was only once and very brief?


Yes.

It might be that "we" are erring on the side of caution, but it IS national security, our national security and "we" are entitled, indeed duty bound, as citizens, to protect our country.


Edit: grammar   :-[
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 05:32:33 by E.R. Campbell »
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2009, 17:16:43 »
This, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, illustrates why we need a thorough overhaul of our entire immigration and refuges systems, beginning with the fact that the two totally unrelated, on to the other:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/court-strikes-down-security-certificate-against-almrei/article1399619/

I have no problem with the judge’s decision, as I understand it; he is interpreting the law, as written, in the light of the Charter, etc. The problem is with the laws and regulations that aid criminals and terrorists rather than protecting Canada from them.

We must begin by using the notwithstanding clause of the Constitution to do away with e.g. Singh v Canada (Minister of Employment and Immigration) that, effectively, granted Charter protection to every single individual who manages, by hook or by crook, to get one foot on Canadian territory. The decision is pernicious and must be overturned or nothing else can be done.

Then, Charter rights and protections must be earned by newcomers on a graduated basis: legal resident, landed immigrant and, finally, citizen.

As a corollary, persons who enter Canada improperly or illegally must be granted only the most fundamental human rights but those must not include protection from immediate deportation to the last (safe) place in which they were. (There are some obvious case where exceptions will be made.) But, that is, essentially, a refugee problem. People who arrive here illegally, intending to either find refuge or, most often, stay and settle (in other words: immigrate) apply as refugees. We must not allow it. There is a precise definition of refugee as “a person who, owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of their nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail him/herself of the protection of that country” and as a person who is fleeing war or violence. We, as human beings and as amongst the most fortunate people in the world have a human duty to help these people but that duty does not extend to making them into immigrants. Real refuges do not want to immigrate; real refugees want to go home, as soon as it is safe to do so. We can help, mostly, in two ways:

1.   By providing safe, humane ‘refuges’ near the refugees’ homes; and

2.   By helping to sort out the situation that created the refugees in the first place – that may involve the use of armed force.

Obviously, sometimes, neither of those courses will work and resettling refugees in Canada, as immigrants, will be the only solution but it should be the exception, not the rule.

Sir, I agree with you to a point. But how would you propose the Canadian government do this overhaul you propose?

A seperate agency that processes refugees altogether? But would't you be more wary of "more government" and thus "more bureaucracy"?  ;D

Also, regarding issue of the exception you point out for genuine refugees...

a.) The Canadian public do not always have the stomach to support armed force to "correct" the situation which made the refugees into refugees in the first place.

For example, would the Canadian or American public be willing to support their military sent in to stabilize Somalia just to allow a few thousand Somalis to return to their homeland? Or (to use an extreme example) even overthrow the Chinese government to allow all those Chinese political dissidents to return to their homeland?  I didn't think so.

b.) The first course of action may actually be more practical if you don't want them to come to Canada at all. Aren't there refugee camps for Somali refugees in neighbouring Kenya, for example? Or Afghan refugees in camps Pakistan as well? Perhaps funding for the aid agencies who deal with these refugees might be preferrable.

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2009, 17:39:01 »
I do not underestimate the difficulties in doing what I suggest is necessary but as the old maxim says, "when you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you must do is to stop digging."

I also agree that the first course - providing safe, humane but temporary refuge near the refugees' homelands - is easier but I suggest it may have to be accompanied by some of the latter, and that may involve the CF fighting, killing and dying in far away, flea-bitten, failing states.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2009, 20:47:02 »
I do not underestimate the difficulties in doing what I suggest is necessary but as the old maxim says, "when you want to get out of a hole, the first thing you must do is to stop digging."

I also agree that the first course - providing safe, humane but temporary refuge near the refugees' homelands - is easier but I suggest it may have to be accompanied by some of the latter, and that may involve the CF fighting, killing and dying in far away, flea-bitten, failing states.

Once again, an ounce of prevention, especially applied far away, is worth a pound of cure, applied at home. Or a ton.

Instead of waiting, like WWII, for a power-mad dictator or force to take over the world or as much as they can grab, then jumping in (speaking of the USA, here, and not disparagingly), they, the USA, are taking the fight over to where the force, i.e. terrorism, has its nest.

Which, I think, will end up in Pakistan. Just chasing them out of Afghanistan into Pakistan and not defeating them in Pakistan reminds me of not taking the Vietnam war sufficiently far into Cambodia, which was the main supply highway for the North Vietnamese.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 21:01:52 by sm1lodon »

Offline mellian

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2009, 22:06:11 »

Yes.

It might be that "we" are erring on the side of caution, but it IS national security, our national security and "we" are entitled, indeed duty as citizens, bound to protect our country.

True, but there is such a thing as going overboard.

Immigration Officer reviewing Permanent Resident application: "I see here that you sat beside so and so on the plane?"

Immigrant Applicant: "Uh yes. Went to where I was assigned per the plane ticket"

"Then in that case, for associating with someone who is national security thread, your is Application Refused!"

"What?? I do not even know the guy and never met him before hand or even heard of him!"

"Still, we cannot take the risk to our national security no matter how small it is, deport back to where you come from you go!"

I also agree that the first course - providing safe, humane but temporary refuge near the refugees' homelands - is easier but I suggest it may have to be accompanied by some of the latter, and that may involve the CF fighting, killing and dying in far away, flea-bitten, failing states.

Canada and the CF is not exactly in the position to go around cleaning up some countries, especially for refugees. It is cheaper and easier to (and resource effective, safer, etc) to go through the hoops to live in Canada or pay for humanitarian refugee aid in neighbouring countries. Getting one's military stuck in various countries is not really good for national security.


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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2009, 22:22:31 »
True, but there is such a thing as going overboard.

Immigration Officer reviewing Permanent Resident application: "I see here that you sat beside so and so on the plane?"

Immigrant Applicant: "Uh yes. Went to where I was assigned per the plane ticket"

"Then in that case, for associating with someone who is national security thread, your is Application Refused!"

"What?? I do not even know the guy and never met him before hand or even heard of him!"

"Still, we cannot take the risk to our national security no matter how small it is, deport back to where you come from you go!"

I could come up with an equally pointless faux conversation with the slant being that we are too lax.........however it would be as pointless as the dribble above.
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Offline mellian

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #87 on: December 14, 2009, 23:29:54 »
I could come up with an equally pointless faux conversation with the slant being that we are too lax.........however it would be as pointless as the dribble above.

Of course, and same with real cases, there are good and bad examples that can slant the argument either way. No matter how anal we are with security, even if we ban all refugees and immigrants from the country, we would still have national security threats and people still manage to get into Canada.

Even with the most totalitarians countries still have problems of people infiltrating into their country and possibly causing trouble (or attempt to), past and present. Fixing the whole refugee and immigration system not going to change all that much in terms of security concerns for Canada. Nor is sending the CF to clean up messes in other countries so we can send refugees claimants back home.

In the other hand, I agree that as 'citizens' of Canada, we have a responsibility in helping keeping our country safe and secure, and need to be able to accept certain measures for it to happen.





 

Offline WR

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #88 on: December 15, 2009, 09:15:45 »
Quote
Quote from: mellian on Yesterday at 22:06:11
True, but there is such a thing as going overboard.

Immigration Officer reviewing Permanent Resident application: "I see here that you sat beside so and so on the plane?"

Immigrant Applicant: "Uh yes. Went to where I was assigned per the plane ticket"

"Then in that case, for associating with someone who is national security thread, your is Application Refused!"

"What?? I do not even know the guy and never met him before hand or even heard of him!"

"Still, we cannot take the risk to our national security no matter how small it is, deport back to where you come from you go!"



Having worked various roles at a major port of entry into Canada, both in the Customs and Immigration stream. I now currently work inland in an enforcement capacity and I can say categorically mellian you are completely out to lunch on that statement/belief on how permanent residents or refugee's are classified or processed.
Canada is quite lax and forgiving for past transgressions before your entry into Canada. We do not have as much leeway when you are actively involved in terrorism or issues that directly affect our national security. If we deported or prevented entry to every person that supports, socializes, prays with or even a relative of or contributes financially to a listed terrorist entity there would be a mass exodus for some ethnic communities.
Here is a hint....don't believe everything you read on CBC or the Huffington Post!!

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #89 on: December 15, 2009, 12:07:05 »
Well that's got to suck. You and your pals pack up for Jihadi school, leave a propaganda video for mom & dad, get to Pakistan.......and no terrorist group wants you.
 :rofl:

Article link
Quote
Terror Wannabes? Arrested Americans Rejected For Jihad Training
By JIM SCIUTTO, PIERRE THOMAS and JASON RYAN
Dec. 10, 2009
The five American terror suspects arrested in Pakistan , where they allegedly sought training for jihad, may have had more ambition than actual ability, sources tell ABC News. Pakistani police say the men attempted to join several terror groups but were turned down....

Quote
Lawyer: Families of U.S. Muslims Arrested In Pakistan Don't Believe Men Are Guilty
Ri-iiight. The "final message" video, and searching for jihadists within Pakistan, were simply misunderstandings -- school boys on a lark, you know.

Offline Danjanou

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #90 on: December 15, 2009, 15:38:40 »
Well that's got to suck. You and your pals pack up for Jihadi school, leave a propaganda video for mom & dad, get to Pakistan.......and no terrorist group wants you.
 :rofl:

Article linkRi-iiight. The "final message" video, and searching for jihadists within Pakistan, were simply misunderstandings -- school boys on a lark, you know.


Hmmm I wonder  is there a local chapter of these guys they could join?
http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/links.htm
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #91 on: January 04, 2010, 21:53:58 »
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Red Toronto Star, is a story about another terrorist in Canada:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/745524--fanatics-return-to-city-feared?bn=1
Quote
Fanatic convert to terrorism spent year in Toronto

John GoddardStaff Reporter

Published On Mon Jan 04 2010


One of the most visible leaders of an Al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist militia in Somalia spent a year in Toronto ingratiating himself into the Somali immigrant community as a convert to Islam.

Omar Hammami – known to followers as Abu Mansour "Al-Amriki" (the American) – ate at Somali restaurants and prayed in Somali mosques. He married a Toronto woman of Somali origin and had a daughter with her.


Omar Hammami, known as Abu Mansour "al-Amriki," is seen in a YouTube video

Then, after learning Somali ways, he left to join the Horn of Africa's top terror group, Al-Shabab, to wage Islamic jihad and recruit other foreign nationals to the cause, say former friends and relatives speaking publicly of the terrorist's Toronto connections for the first time.

"He betrayed us," says a former friend who worked with Hammami at a Weston Rd. pizzeria. "For a man to be saying that, Islamically, it is okay to be killing innocent people – and yesterday you fed him bread and welcomed him into your houses – it kind of shatters you."

Five ethnic Somali men disappeared from Scarborough this fall, all friends believed recruited into Al-Shabab. Three are said by family associates to have since phoned home from Somalia. No direct connection to Hammami is known but in the Somali community his Internet postings are notorious.

On a 2008 recruitment video, referring to one of his dead fighters, Hammami says, "We need more like him.

"So if you can encourage more of your children and more of your neighbours, anyone around, to send people like him to this jihad, it would be a great asset for us."

A least 20 young men have left Minneapolis, Minn., for Al-Shabab in the last 18 months. One of them is confirmed to have blown himself up with a car bomb in the Somali port town of Bosasso. Five others are said by relatives to be dead.

Other young men have left from Boston, Columbus, San Diego and Seattle. Others have joined from Australia and the United Kingdom.

The suicide bomber who killed three government ministers and at least 16 others at a graduating ceremony for doctors and engineers last month in Mogadishu was recruited from Denmark.

Hammami himself is said to have been wounded in fighting late last year.

Al-Shabab's stated goals are to take power from the fragile government backed by African Union troops and turn Somalia into an Islamic state friendly to Al Qaeda. Ultimately, its leaders say, the aim is to establish a global Islamic state.

"We are striving to establish the Islaamic Khilaafah from East to West," Hammami writes in an Internet posting of Jan. 8, 2008, "after removing the occupier and killing the apostates."

For Torontonians, al-Shabab recruitment presents another terrifying possibility: A fanatic returns to explode himself in a crowd.

Or as RCMP Commissioner William Elliott put it in October: "The potential follow-on threat is Somali-Canadians who travel to Somalia to fight and then return, imbued with both extremist ideology and the skills necessary to translate it into direct action."

Omar Hammami is 25 years old. He grew up in Daphne, Ala., just outside Mobile.

His mother is Baptist by religion. His father is Shafik Hammami, a Syrian-born engineer with the Alabama transportation department and president of the Islamic Society of Mobile. Reached by phone last week, he refused comment.

Although Hammami grew up Baptist, he converted to Islam in the late 1990s while attending Daphne High School.

"He had tons of friends," fellow student Shellie Brooks told Fox News four months ago, "and of course things changed a bit when he converted because his beliefs changed."

In September 2001, Hammami had just started computer science studies at the University of South Alabama – and been elected head of the Muslim Student Association – when Al Qaeda launched its suicide attacks on the United States.

"It's difficult to believe a Muslim could have done this," he told the campus newspaper at the time.

At the end of 2002, he dropped out of school.

How he spent the next two years is not known but in the fall of 2004 he arrived in Toronto from Ohio, says one of his best friends from the period.

"He was interested in finding a large Muslim community," says the friend, a Somalia-born Torontonian who asks to be identified only as Abdi, because he says he fears Al-Shabab.

Of any Toronto immigrant community, the city's 80,000 Somalis are the most visibly Muslim, he says, especially the women who copiously cover themselves.

Together, Abdi and Hammami took jobs briefly at a dairy distribution company. Afterward they moved to 1 Pizza & Fish & Chips, on Weston Rd. north of Lawrence Ave. W.

"I became very close to him," Abdi says. "We talked a lot about religion. I knew a lot of his beliefs and ideology."

Hammami considered himself a Salafi Muslim, seeking to practise Islam as people did in the seventh and eighth centuries. But he was not extremist, Abdi says.

"The man I knew did not believe in suicide bombings," he says. "He did not believe in carrying weapons and fighting among the Muslims. He did not believe in calling people disbelievers just because they had a dispute with you."

On the other hand, Hammami was "easily irritated," the former friend recalls.

"There was one incident at the pizza place when a Somali singer placed a (concert) poster in the window," he says. "In a split second, (Hammami) removed it.

"To me, that is immaturity, not extremism," Abdi says. "Rather, he should ask permission to the owner saying, `You know, brother, (music and partying) is not according to tradition.'"

At some point early on, at an Islamic conference, Hammami met Sadiyo Mohamed Abdille. He was 20, she was 18.

"His face, it was a bit fanatic," recalls Mohamed Salad, the girl's father, of the day Hammami asked permission to marry her.

Salad despises fanatics. In Somalia, he rose to become an army colonel under military dictator Siad Barre. He was training in San Antonio, Texas, when Barre was ousted in 1991 and with no reason to return home Salad came to Toronto.

"If we had been in Somalia, I would have refused (permission to marry)," says Salad, now a coffee house owner on Lawrence Ave. W. "But I thought, `This is Canada. I am Canadian. Daughters decide what they like.'"

In June 2005, the couple left for Cairo. Hammami told people he wanted to study Islam at Al-Azar University.

That summer the baby was born. In September, Hammami told his wife they were going to Somalia but she balked. She phoned her father, who helped her and the baby return to Toronto.

Speaking for the woman, Scarborough lawyer Faisal Kutty would say only that his client legally separated from Hammami in June 2007, has had no contact with him for more than two years and "has fully co-operated with Canadian intelligence officials on this."

The RCMP, CSIS and Canada Border Services Agency refused comment on the case, other than to say, in the words of a CSIS spokesperson, "We are well aware of the situation in Somalia and its impact on Canada."

Hammami arrived in Mogadishu in late 2005, only to be arrested as a spy by leaders of the Islamic Courts Union, says Abdi, who has been tracking his former friend through personal networks.

But Hammami's credentials checked out. The Union, on its way to controlling much of the south in 2006, assigned him to its youth wing – Al-Shabab. Its leader, Aden Hashi Ayrow, sent him to Raas Kamboni training camp at the Kenyan border.

"He began to rise in the ranks," Abdi says. (A U.S. air strike killed Ayrow on May 1, 2008.)

In October 2007, Hammami appeared, his face covered, on an Al Jazeera TV report, still accessible on YouTube, about Al-Shabab's and Al Qaeda's "common goal." The report identified him as fighter and military instructor "Abu Mansour the American."

In May 2008, he starred in a 31-minute Al-Shabab video, face plainly visible, leading what he called an ambush against invading Ethiopian troops near the south-central city of Baidoa.

"The only reason we are staying here away from our families, away from the cities, away from, you know, ice, candy bars, all these other things, is because we are ready to meet with the enemy," he tells his fighters, presumably English-speaking foreigners like himself.

In April 2009, the ambush video went mainstream. Fox News and other media outlets reported on it. In September, Al-Amriki was identified as Hammami, prompting his indictment in Alabama on terrorism charges.

By then, Hammami had issued an anti-Western diatribe called "The Beginning of the End," still on YouTube, his answer to U.S. President Barack Obama's Cairo speech, "A New Beginning." Human rights, Hammami claimed, go against Islamic traditions such as stoning, cutting off hands and giving a woman no choice but to wear a headscarf.
Also by then, Kenya's Daily Nation had reported that "Abu Mansur al-Meriki" had become No. 2 commander of an Al-Shabab unit of 180 foreign fighters led by Kenyan national Saleh Nabhan. (A U.S. helicopter raid killed Nabhan on Sept. 16 near Barawe.)

In September, an undated Al-Shabab video "At Your Service, Osama," showed Hammami leading military exercises.

Abdi says he heard in October that Hammami had been fighting near the Ethiopian border, and is recovering in hospital from bullet wounds and mental problems.

In Toronto two weeks ago, the Somali Canadian National Council brought together 150 community members to condemn Al-Shabab recruitment in Toronto.

"Until now we've been afraid to speak out," the group's president Abdurahman "Hosh" Jibril said in an interview. "Now we've reached the point of no return."

Kawnayn "U.K." Hussein, host of "Midnimo (Unity)" Thursdays at 10 p.m. on Radio AM530, provided key research for this story.

Maybe the first thing we should do is to tell the congenitally dimwitted US Secretary of Homeland Screwups Security to keep her damned Islamist terrorists on her own side of the border – instead of blaming 9/11 on Canada. That woman is too stupid to breathe unaided. But I guess she’s a good fit for her department.

The second thing “we” should do is find this guy and, quietly, in the nice Canadian way, slit his throat before he returns.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline old medic

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #92 on: July 07, 2010, 09:21:20 »
T.O. man guilty of trying to send nuclear devices to Iran
The Canadian Press
07 July 2010

Quote
TORONTO — A Toronto man has been found guilty of trying to send devices to Iran that could be used to build nuclear weapons.

A judge today convicted Mahmoud Yadegari of nine of the 10 charges he was facing -- he was acquitted of one count of forgery.

He will be sentenced July 29.

Yadegari, 36, was arrested in April 2009 after a joint eight-week investigation by the RCMP and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

He is believed to be the only Canadian ever charged under the United Nations Act.

Yadegari was also charged under the Criminal Code, the Customs Act and the Export and Import Permits Act, as well as provisions in Canada's Nuclear Safety and Control Act.

Some of the offences Yadegari was found guilty of carry maximum sentences of 10 years in prison and $500,000 fines.

The case has received international attention and even the notice of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

In February, Ahmadinejad proposed that Yadegari be included in a swap of Iranians in U.S. prisons for three American hikers being held in Tehran.

The Iranian-born businessman used his small company, operated out of his Toronto home, to try to export to Iran via Dubai two of 10 pressure transducers he purchased from a U.S. company.

The hand-sized instruments convert pressure measurements into electrical signals for computers and other electronic devices. They have benign applications but can be used in the enrichment of uranium for nuclear weapons.

Iran insists it is enriching uranium to produce nuclear energy for civilian purposes. But the United States and some European countries accuse Tehran of secretly seeking to build nuclear weapons.

At a news conference following his arrest, police said Yadegari purchased the transducers from a Boston-area company for about $1,100 each. Police said the company alerted authorities.

Yadegari is a Canadian citizen who emigrated from Iran in 1998.
re-answering vision questions since 2004.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2010, 08:03:57 »
Why they can be radicalized so easily is a key question, and a look at their culture says a lot. More melting pot and far less multiculturalism would defuse this here at home among recent immigrants:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-looming-documentary-hbos-my-trip-to-al-qaeda/?singlepage=true

Quote
The Looming Documentary: HBO’s My Trip to Al-Qaeda

It isn’t a simple case of “why do they hate us?” as this flawed, but engrossing documentary hosted by Pulitzer-winning author Lawrence Wright explains. It’s more about why they hate their own lives and why they think a supposedly noble death as a suicide bomber is their only escape.
September 12, 2010 - by Christian Toto
Share |

HBO continues to provide a valuable service to subscribers via its original programming slate, filling a glaring gap left by other media outlets.

My Trip to Al-Qaeda, the channel’s new documentary, reveals the face of the Western world’s enemy in a way that will haunt viewers.

The film, inspired by the off-Broadway show of the same name by author turned actor Lawrence Wright, details al-Qaeda’s philosophy in ways that feel fresh and frightening.

Sure, Wright brings a liberal’s gimlet eye for blaming America to the proceedings, something likely advanced by noted Bush-bashing director Alex Gibney (Taxi to the Dark Side).

The film’s far bigger takeaway involves a death culture eager to prey on vulnerable populations.

Al-Qaeda, debuting this month, uses Wright’s one-man show as a vessel to tell an expanded version of the terror group’s roots and realities.

It isn’t a simple case of “why do they hate us?” — an inane question that emerged post-9/11. It’s more about why they hate their own lives and how a supposedly noble death as a suicide bomber is often their only escape.

Gibney wisely opens up the show to include footage taken from Middle Eastern countries, returning to the stage play for occasional close-ups of Wright’s face.

He’s a crack storyteller, and he speaks in an easy cadence that reminds one of actor Owen Wilson. But the messages behind Wright’s stories are hardly comforting.

Wright, the author of the Pulitzer Prize winning book The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11, has been interviewing radical and reasonable Muslims alike for years. His stories are told in sometimes illogical order, but he keeps the narrative in one piece by showing how each brushes up against al-Qaeda.

He draw out the roots of the modern terrorist movement from Egyptian President Anwar el-Sadat signing a peace treaty with Israel — akin to signing his death warrant, Wright argues — to the Egyptian prisons which tortured those responsible for Sadat’s death.

Consider al-Qaeda leader Ayman Al-Zawahiri, a doctor who spent time in an Egyptian jail for his role in the assassination.

“He entered prison a surgeon. He came out a butcher,” Wright says.

My Trip to Al-Qaeda offers few solutions on how to deal with the terrorist organization, nor does Wright complete thoughts about his own role studying their behavior. How should he respond if he snared an interview with Osama bin Laden himself? Does he stab the militant with the nearest sharp object, or simply record his thoughts like any responsible journalist might?

“I begin to wonder, ‘who am I when I’m talking to al-Qaeda?’” he asks himself.

Wright also co-wrote The Siege, the 1998 thriller that took a prescient look at terrorists attacking on U.S. soil. The movie feared the loss of civil liberties if a terrorist attack hit our shores, and Wright believes that’s precisely what happened after 9/11.

He conflates the degradations at Abu Ghraib with America in toto, and cries in horror to learn the U.S. waterboarded several al-Qaeda members to glean more information about future attacks.

Wright’s observations on the radical Muslim’s mindset are equally chilling. The culture keeps men separated from women, leaving them socially immature.

“It’s not so easy to be a terrorist if your girlfriend won’t let you,” he cracks. The men who follow the most radical brand of Islam “are nearly incapacitated with longing.


And that hardly begins to describe life in Saudi Arabia, a cauldron for some of today’s most radical minds. Leisure activity doesn’t have a place in society, at least not by the Western world’s standards. Parks and museums are rare, movie houses don’t exist, and the Internet is heavily controlled and monitored.

Shopping offers their only vice, and when a new IKEA opened up in the country 15,000 people lined up to visit — with two people trampled to death in the crush.

That leaves a young population bored, frustrated, and often clinically depressed.

Enter al-Qaeda, a group which “empowers people who have no power,” he notes, a collective with “an engine that runs on the despair of the Muslim world.“

The film’s waning moments spend too much time detailing one FBI agent’s horror over U.S. interrogation techniques, a one-sided cry of rage from Wright that detracts from the main story.

Wright’s on target when he says the U.S. needs to better understand the radical mindset before engaging in a war on terror. But by blasting the Iraq War, excoriating enhanced interrogation techniques, and decrying modest crackdowns on civil liberties, Wright leaves few other tools available to beat back terror cells around the globe.

Anything the Western world does to fight al-Qaeda trips the Muslim “humiliation reflex,” causing them to hate the West even more. But what’s Plan B?

Wright lets loose with platitudes like, “Al Qaeda can’t destroy America. We can only do that to ourselves.” He’s correct — in theory — but a few well placed nuclear suitcases will bring down the country far more quickly than any draconian laws we can put in place to fight terrorism.

My Trip to Al-Qaeda is tough to watch, tougher to turn away from, and an invaluable aid to those who don’t understand the true nature of the enemy we all face.

Christian Toto is a freelance writer and film critic for The Washington Times. His work has appeared in People magazine, MovieMaker Magazine, The Denver Post, The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, and Scripps Howard News Service. He also contributes movie radio commentary to three stations as well as the nationally syndicated Dennis Miller Show and runs the blog What Would Toto Watch?
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline CallOfDuty

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #94 on: September 12, 2010, 09:04:54 »
  Here it is for free if you guys want to watch it...................http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=389341
"I bought a box of animal crackers and it said do not eat if seal is broken.  I opened it, and sure enough...................."

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #95 on: September 30, 2010, 14:36:35 »
A look at the Times Square bomber is very revealing, especially in that most of the usual tropes (poverty, illiterate, no hope) are clearly absent.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/09/027343.php

Quote
The Anatomy of Evil
 
September 29, 2010 Posted by John at 8:58 PM

I think it is safe to say that the number one evil in the world today is Islamic extremism. Today we got a glimpse into that world, courtesy of Faisal Shahzad. Do you remember him? He is the home-grown terrorist who tried to blow up a Nissan Pathfinder in Times Square. He failed, fortunately, like several of his brethren over the last year or two, and therefore faded from memory.

But he is about to be sentenced for the crimes to which he has enthusiastically pled guilty. Earlier today, the federal prosecutors filed their memorandum in support of the government's recommendation of a sentence of life imprisonment. You can read the whole thing here. The prosecutors made several excellent points. First, it is easy to ridicule a terrorist whose plan goes awry, but Shahzad's attempt was no joke. The government carried out a reconstruction of Shahzad's crime in which his detonators worked: "[T]he controlled detonation conducted by the JTTF demonstrated that those effects would have been devastating to the surrounding area." Nearby vehicles would have been blown up, and dozens of pedestrians would have been killed. Shahzad planned his attack to maximize pedestrian casualties, since it is easier to kill people on foot than in cars.

Second, Shahzad is a typical terrorist in that he is intelligent, well-educated, and economically secure. Those who blindly assume that poverty is the cause of terrorism aren't paying attention:

    Far from providing an explanation for his criminal activity, Shahzad's history and characteristics strongly militate in favor of the maximum available sentence. Prior to his decision to attempt to kill and maim scores of unsuspecting men, women and children in the heart of New York City, Shahzad had achieved a degree of academic and professional success in the United States and was living a life with his wife and two young children that was full of promise. Before seeking bomb-making training from a terrorist group in rural Pakistan in 2009, Shahzad had lived in the United States for nearly ten years and had taken advantage of an array of opportunities that this country provided. In his early years here, he was permitted to study at a university in Connecticut on a student visa and obtain a college degree. After graduating from college, a U.S. company hired him and agreed to sponsor him, thereby allowing him to remain in the United States on a working visa. And thereafter, a second U.S. company hired him and continued to sponsor him until he became a naturalized U.S. citizen in April 2009. He was paid competitive salaries at both jobs, which permitted him and his family to live comfortably in the suburbs of Connecticut. Notwithstanding this series of opportunities and accomplishments, and the recent births of his two children, Shahzad knowingly and deliberately chose a different path - a nihilistic path that celebrated conflict and death cloaked in the rhetoric of a distorted interpretation of Islam.

Islamic terrorism has, perhaps, several fathers, but poverty is not among them.

Third, the prosecutors closed their presentation by emphasizing the special and insidious danger that is posed by American Muslim terrorists:

    Shahzad's crimes are uniquely disturbing because they were committed by a United States citizen who received training from a foreign terrorist organization. Foreign terrorist organizations depend upon a wide array of individuals across the world to survive and to accomplish their terrorist objectives. History has demonstrated that some within the networks of terrorist organizations are United States citizens who exploit the benefits of their citizenship to identify vulnerabilities within the United States or align themselves against the United States for the operational advantage of terrorist organizations. These individuals constitute a particularly pernicious threat to the national security of the United States. Under the cover of their U.S. citizenship, these operatives, facilitators, and sympathizers can remain in the United States undetected as well as travel freely around the world on their U.S. passports, gathering information and developing expertise for the benefit of those committed to harming the United States directly and its interests abroad.

    There are few threats to the national security and the way of life in this country greater than a citizen who chooses to serve as an operative for a foreign terrorist organization and attempts to wage an attack inside the United States. Shahzad exploited the freedom and the opportunities provided to him in the United States to further his and the TTP's violent ends. He privately declared his own war on the United States, armed himself with a semi-automatic rifle, and was prepared to open fire on law enforcement agents and officers if they attempted to arrest him. As part of his war, he selected unsuspecting civilians as his targets, irrespective of their race, religion or nationality. After he lit the fuse, he so hoped that his bomb would detonate that he paused to listen for the explosion as he walked to Grand Central terminal, and if he had not been caught, he planned to detonate another bomb in New York City two weeks later. And for all of this, far from expressing remorse or contrition, Shahzad has only evinced a lasting sense of pride in his actions. Accordingly, irrespective of any mandatory sentence required by statute, only one sentence - a sentence of life imprisonment - is sufficient for this defendant.

The death penalty, apparently, is unavailable.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #96 on: September 30, 2010, 16:44:11 »
I certainly hope he gets life.....as my wife, daughter, three sisters in law and two neices were near Times Square during that event. In fact, very close to what could be termed "Ground Zero"

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #97 on: September 30, 2010, 17:51:45 »
Seriously, I don't get it... one would assume that a person immigrates to Canada because they love Canadian values. Coming here, and then playing the we-take-offense-to-your-culture card is just pathetic. I am an immigrant myself and I know why I came here, I know what I want and most importantly, I know what debts I have to pay back for this privilege.  I am not against multiculturalism, but sometime it just gets out of hand (e.g. happy holidays anyone... and I not even a Christian!).Maybe we should stress more on the values that make a Canadian, than the whole multicultural aspect?
:2c:

Quote
I certainly hope he gets life.....as my wife, daughter, three sisters in law and two neices were near Times Square during that event. In fact, very close to what could be termed "Ground Zero"

Life, with  ahem ...conjugal visits... by other inmates. 



Offline George Wallace

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #98 on: September 30, 2010, 19:06:16 »
Seriously, I don't get it... one would assume that a person immigrates to Canada because they love Canadian values. Coming here, and then playing the we-take-offense-to-your-culture card is just pathetic. I am an immigrant myself and I know why I came here, I know what I want and most importantly, I know what debts I have to pay back for this privilege.  I am not against multiculturalism, but sometime it just gets out of hand (e.g. happy holidays anyone... and I not even a Christian!).Maybe we should stress more on the values that make a Canadian, than the whole multicultural aspect?
:2c:


I agree with you.  Why try to recreate the problems they are fleeing from/moving away from in Canada?  If they want to do that, then why did they leave their native land?  I assume that they thought that Canada had a better culture, so why would they want to change it to something else?  I just don't get it.  I would hate to think it was solely for the money and social health and welfare handouts.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #99 on: October 01, 2010, 22:04:24 »
The issue is these people have come to believe their particular brand of ideology, religion or social values trump the "Classical Liberal" values of Individual liberty, unencumbered ownership and use of property and the Rule of Law. Islamic Jihadis are not the only ones:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100056586/eco-fascism-jumps-the-shark-massive-epic-fail/

Quote
Eco-fascism jumps the shark: massive, epic fail!
 
By James Delingpole Environment Last updated: October 1st, 2010

886 Comments Comment on this article

I predicted this morning that No Pressure – Richard Curtis’s spectacularly ill-judged eco-propaganda movie for the 10:10 campaign – would prove a disastrous own goal for the green movement.

But what I could never have imagined was how quickly public disgust – even among greenies – would reach such a pitch that the campaigners would be compelled to withdraw it from the internet.

That, at any rate, is what they keep trying to do – cancelling it whenever it appears on You Tube, pulling it from their campaign website and so on.

Unfortunately their efforts are being frustrated by people on the sceptical side of the climate debate, who keep peskily insisting on reposting the video where everyone can view it. And rightly so. With No Pressure, the environmental movement has revealed the snarling, wicked, homicidal misanthropy beneath its cloak of gentle, bunny-hugging righteousness.

I don’t think any of us will ever be able to look at another Richard Curtis movie in quite the same way ever again. It may even be that we will now never, ever be able to enjoy another episode of the Vicar of Dibley, because all we’ll be able to think about is Dawn French with a Panzerfaust beneath her cassock ready to blast off the heads of any members of her congregation who don’t believe in Man Made Global Warming. What a sad day this is for us all.

PS If you want to register your disgust, a commenter from the previous blog Reconstruct has some helpful suggestions:

    Now you’ve seen the video, prepare not to be surprised that your taxes helped pay for it.

    The 10:10 Campaign is supported by:
    ActionAid (Govt of UK 2nd largest funder in 2009);
    The Carbon Trust (surely #1 on the list of quangos-to-go);
    The Energy Saving Trust.

    Be not surprised that The Guardian is their ‘media partner’.

    On the other hand, if you’re outraged by the video, you might be interested to know that they also have a small number of genuine commercial sponsors: O2, Sony and Kyocera all have helped fund the 10:10 Campaign.

    I suggest that the first thing to do is to make your outrage known to O2, Sony and Kyocera, suggesting that their commercial interests might not be furthered by funding murderous nazi will-fulfillment propaganda.

UPDATE:

Here’s the excuse posted by the 10:10 organisers on the Guardian website.

    Sorry.
    Today we put up a mini-movie about 10:10 and climate change called ‘No Pressure’.

    With climate change becoming increasingly threatening, and decreasingly talked about in the media, we wanted to find a way to bring this critical issue back into the headlines whilst making people laugh. We were therefore delighted when Britain’s leading comedy writer, Richard Curtis – writer of Blackadder, Four Weddings, Notting Hill and many others – agreed to write a short film for the 10:10 campaign. Many people found the resulting film extremely funny, but unfortunately some didn’t and we sincerely apologise to anybody we have offended.

    As a result of these concerns we’ve taken it off our website.

    We’d like to thank the 50+ film professionals and 40+ actors and extras and who gave their time and equipment to the film for free. We greatly value your contributions and the tremendous enthusiasm and professionalism you brought to the project.

    At 10:10 we’re all about trying new and creative ways of getting people to take action on climate change. Unfortunately in this instance we missed the mark. Oh well, we live and learn.

    Onwards and upwards,

click on the link to watch the video and see for yourself
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.