Author Topic: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)  (Read 540734 times)

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #475 on: October 01, 2014, 10:20:47 »
Recent disturbing news that is slipping under the radar and not getting much attention here at home.


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

More on LINK.


And if that is not disturbing enough for you; this from Toronto:
More on LINK.


I hope readers took the time to watch the explanation. The "morality play" the children saw, and in which other children participated, commemorates the slaughter of the Prophet Mohammed's family by the caliphate of the day. It is disturbing, especially in light of what IS** is doing, but it hardly rises to the headline of "Mosque teaches 4-5 beheading" ... unless we can say that the Passion Play" teaches Christians how to crucify Jews.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #476 on: October 01, 2014, 18:19:14 »
A good reminder that fanatics (of whatever religion), not the religion itself, is the enemy here.

Quote
The Muslim and Christian religions have much in common.  Radical fanatics do bad things and we all need to stand together against them. Islam holds no monopoly on the production of radical fanatics. Hitler is a good example.

Muslim troops fought with the Allies in World War II, and Muslims in many capacities heroically stepped in and saved the lives of thousands of Jewish people. Michael Wolfe has researched this topic and turned up some fascinating stories.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/fanatics-not-muslims-are-our-enemy-20140926-10mg5k.html
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #477 on: October 02, 2014, 10:22:18 »
The religion can be when it explicitly states what to do to unbelievers and the majority of believers follow that. Like it or not, some religions will be incompatibly with our society. Islam is more than the Koran, it is the Hadith's and jurisprudence that has accumulated over the last 1400 years. Islam is also not just one religion but 2 significantly different branches each with many sub branches. Salafi is the branch that is causing the world much of the problem and excluding practitioners of that branch from the country would be a wise move.   

Offline Jed

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #478 on: October 02, 2014, 10:44:13 »
The religion can be when it explicitly states what to do to unbelievers and the majority of believers follow that. Like it or not, some religions will be incompatible (sp) with our society. Islam is more than the Koran, it is the Hadith's and jurisprudence that has accumulated over the last 1400 years. Islam is also not just one religion but 2 significantly different branches each with many sub branches. Salafi is the branch that is causing the world much of the problem and excluding practitioners of that branch from the country would be a wise move.


I agree with you in this regard. This key point sets Islam apart from Christianity or Judaism. There is no "live and let live" with in the greater devout Muslim community.
 edited to add. In my opinion the greater majority of devout Muslims will not accept anything less than the eventual conversion and / or elimination of all points of view that their version of God is the one true God. I do not believe this the case for the vast majority of devout Christians or Jews or Agnostics (near Atheists) for that matter.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 12:14:09 by Jed »
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #479 on: October 02, 2014, 11:24:14 »
The religion can be when it explicitly states what to do to unbelievers and the majority of believers follow that. Like it or not, some religions will be incompatibly with our society. Islam is more than the Koran, it is the Hadith's and jurisprudence that has accumulated over the last 1400 years. Islam is also not just one religion but 2 significantly different branches each with many sub branches. Salafi is the branch that is causing the world much of the problem and excluding practitioners of that branch from the country would be a wise move.

Reference the bolded part, you mean just like Christianity and Judaism which both have different branch and sub-branches, and which don't always play nice with each other.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #480 on: October 03, 2014, 14:21:31 »
There are branches of Islam that are generally peaceful and live well with others. Near my house is an Ismail Mosque sharing a parking lot with a church, works great, one uses the parking lot on Friday, the other Sunday. I think the steps that Canada has taken to educate wannabe immigrants on what is expected in the way of behaviour in this country is a good step and that anyone professing to belong to certain branches of Islam be denied entrance, because it ain't worth our time or theirs. For those coming in make them sign an agreement in their language that would basically make a devout nutbar stop cold. One problem is that many "devout Muslims" would stare blankly at you if you asked if they belonged to the Sufi or Salafi branches because they really don't know that much other than what they are told. Which leads me to my other concern, keep a tight wrap on Iman's and what is being taught. Make them take "Canadian cultural courses" so they know what they can and can't preach.

Offline Jed

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #481 on: October 03, 2014, 14:58:18 »
There are branches of Islam that are generally peaceful and live well with others. Near my house is an Ismail Mosque sharing a parking lot with a church, works great, one uses the parking lot on Friday, the other Sunday. I think the steps that Canada has taken to educate wannabe immigrants on what is expected in the way of behaviour in this country is a good step and that anyone professing to belong to certain branches of Islam be denied entrance, because it ain't worth our time or theirs. For those coming in make them sign an agreement in their language that would basically make a devout nutbar stop cold. One problem is that many "devout Muslims" would stare blankly at you if you asked if they belonged to the Sufi or Salafi branches because they really don't know that much other than what they are told. Which leads me to my other concern, keep a tight wrap on Iman's and what is being taught. Make them take "Canadian cultural courses" so they know what they can and can't preach.

Yes but many devout ? spiritual ? Christians / other non Muslims don't know if they are Protestant, Catholic, Full Gospel, etc. either and many change in the passage of time. Also how can you keep a tight wrap on the Imams' and what is taught? Could we even do this or want to do this with a nutbar Anglican or Mormon, for example?
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #482 on: October 03, 2014, 17:19:43 »
I might be bored to death by an Anglican but not blown up by one.  ;D

The Charter rights might be an issue for sure, which is why your first line of defense is the immigration system.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #483 on: October 03, 2014, 18:46:31 »
Which leads me to my other concern, keep a tight wrap on Iman's and what is being taught. Make them take "Canadian cultural courses" so they know what they can and can't preach.

I agree with your idea, but how does one actually do that, short of having minders/surveillance on every service the *insert religious preacher* holds?  And how would that look to said religious community? 
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #484 on: October 04, 2014, 08:42:45 »
An update on a murder in TORONTO, of a firefighter in an unprovoked assaulted last September, which has been quietly floating under the radar:


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Hearing likely to determine fate of man who killed firefighter

Metro News
September 4, 2014 Updated   : September 4, 2014 | 11:39 pm

A judge may have to decide whether Nabil Huruy is criminally responsible for the violent and unprovoked murder of a Markham firefighter in a café on the Danforth a year ago.

Huruy pleaded guilty to the first-degree murder of Dominic Parker, 45, in May and Superior Court Justice Ian Nordheimer ordered him to undergo a psychiatric assessment at the Waypoint Centre for Mental Heath Care in Penetanguishene before a conviction could be entered.

The report concludes that “not criminally responsible” (referred to as NCR) is not an available defence, crown attorney Daniel Brandes told the court Thursday morning.

However, Huruy’s lawyer Bob Richardson said that he would need to have another expert examine the report.

He expects a hearing will be required to determine if, due to a mental illness, Huruy was able to appreciate the nature of his actions or know they were wrong. “I think that the entire focus of the hearing would be on that issue,” Richardson told the court.

Huruy, 23, who wore a traditional Islamic white tunic and head covering instead of the usual orange jumpsuit, repeatedly stood to speak during the brief appearance. “Based off the reports (from Waypoint and from the hospital) is it necessary for a trial?” he asked at the start.

Nordheimer explained that while there won’t be trial due to the guilty plea, there could be a “proceeding akin to a trial.”

The hearing could require the judge to hear testimony from witnesses in order to assess what occurred, similar to a murder trial like that of Richard Kachkar whose rampage with a snowplow killed Toronto police officer Ryan Russell in 2011.

Unlike the Kachkar trial, Huruy has entered a guilty plea and the evidence would be heard by a judge alone rather than a jury.

If Huruy is found not criminally responsible, as Kachkar was, he would be detained in a psychiatric facility under the purview of the Ontario Review Board, rather than in prison.

On Thursday, Huruy denied that he is mentally ill during a seemingly prepared statement objecting to the way staff at Waypoint treated patients.

“(At the centre) I thought I got to do my job and guard my own, to prove I’m not mentally ill, and that I was going through something that I let build and bottled up,” he said. “Which put me in the same room as the ones who are truly mentally ill and those that are going along with it to catch a break.”

According to the agreed statement of facts in the case, Huruy had three brushes with the police, including one that sent him to the hospital for a mental health evaluation, in the days before he walked into the Rotana café, where Parker was playing cards around 1 a.m. on Sept. 14.

Huruy joined the informal card game, then suddenly attacked Parker with a knife, stabbing him repeatedly in the head. Parker was taken off life-support two days later.

An NCR hearing is not expected to take place until next year. 

Related LINKS:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/markham-ont-firefighter-dies-in-unprovoked-caf%C3%A9-attack-1.1856838

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/09/20/muslim-tries-to-decapitate-man-in-a-cafe-in-toronto-without-provocation/

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/off-duty-firefighter-dies-after-east-end-stabbing-1.1457443

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/09/16/markham_firefighter_dies_after_unprovoked_stabbing.html

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/09/16/markham-firefighter-dominic-parker-attacked-on-danforth

http://pamelageller.com/2013/09/canada-firefighter-dies-after-muslim-attempts-to-behead-him-without-provocationi-n-toronto-cafe.html/
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #485 on: October 04, 2014, 08:59:10 »
One mother's experience, and a glimmer of hope for her:


Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
My boy the radical Muslim

The Spectator
Claire Stevens
4 October 2014

Ask yourself how you would feel if your child started spouting hate-filled bile against homosexuals, women, Jews — anyone, in fact, who wasn’t a Muslim man

Two years ago this week, my stepson came home wearing an Arabic black thawb. He walked into the sitting-room, smiled defiantly at me and at his father, and asked us how he looked. We were a little shocked, but being English of course we said he looked very nice.

Our boy had never shown any interest in religion before he found Islam at 16. We’re atheists, and we raised him to be tolerant of all faiths but wary of anyone selling easy answers. It all began after he left school. He was feeling slightly isolated, depressed and vulnerable after breaking up with his first girlfriend, so we were pleased when he began college and some new friends appeared. They were all young Muslim men. Around seven of them would pile into my stepson’s bedroom every evening and we would hear the shouts and yelps of teenage boys amusing themselves.

It all seemed so normal; it all was so normal. So much so that, when a prayer mat and textbooks on the Qur’an appeared on a shelf in his room, it came as something of a surprise. His father and I discussed his conversion between ourselves but, naively, we saw it as cosmetic change. This was, we reasoned, our boy’s version of going punk or vegan for a few months. We believed that this ‘conversion’ would be a harmless passing phase. We were wrong.

Over the next few months we saw the boy we knew become buried beneath a spiritual totalitarianism. The word Islam means submission. It allows you to love nothing else; to be a good Muslim, you must surrender yourself completely. Under the informal tutelage of his new friends, our boy eagerly took on the attitudes of his Muslim ‘brothers’ in place of his former personality. Why, he protested, didn’t I cook every night? Why didn’t I ‘look after’ him and his dad like a good (Muslim) woman would? I was lazy, I was ‘irresponsible’, he would say, a smug little smile on his face. I felt angry and sad.

To keep the peace, I tried to take it as a joke, informing him that I had a career that involved more than just having babies. Gradually though, I found myself worn down by his attitude.

It wasn’t just women who found themselves at the sharp end of our boy’s new found sagacity. A news story about Afghanistan prompted him to join in our discussion of politics, something which in the past had been of no interest to him. He informed us that the problems in the region were the fault of ‘The Jews’; everything bad in the world could be laid at the door of ‘The Jews’. The Holocaust never happened, he insisted, but in the same breath he would say that ‘the Nazis should have finished them off’. ‘The Jews’ had caused the world financial crisis and, of course, ‘The Jews’ were the reason why he couldn’t find work. It was not because he had neither qualifications nor work experience, although that was probably their fault too.

Before his conversion, we had together watched Four Lions, the Chris Morris comedy about young British jihadis, and laughed at the idiotic prejudices of the white convert character, Barry. Now our normal teenage boy had been replaced by a caricature. We challenged him, thinking reasonableness would see him acquiesce. But we were not dealing with a rational mind. Our Muslim boy would heed no evidence against his argument and neither did he require any evidence to justify his prejudices. He just shook his head at our ‘blindness’, our blasphemous absence of faith. We’d see, he said, the familiar smug smile appearing: it was all in the Qur’an. We should convert before it was too late.

Some of you reading this might dismiss me as a bigot, prejudiced against a religion I do not understand. But please ask yourselves how you would feel if your child started spouting hate-filled bile against homosexuals, women, Jews, anyone in fact, who wasn’t a Muslim man? Every day we fought, struggled, wept and grieved for the boy. All we wanted was our son back.

Two years later, we have started to make some progress. Every day he returns to us a little more. His eyes have light in them again. It’s almost as if he is recovering from some disease. He explains his reversion succinctly: ‘I realised that I was good enough, that I didn’t need to follow someone else’s idea of what I should be.’ He can now take responsibility for his life rather than seeking to blame others. He is maturing. He no longer needs the support of a tribe, which is what attracts Muslims from all backgrounds and nations to the idea of jihad. I’ve come to think that it is youth, not persecution or poverty, that these Islamic State groupies have in common, an embryonic sense of identity. For them, blaming America for the world’s problems is the equivalent of shouting at their parents that they ‘never asked to be born’.

Every time I hear of another young man who has lied to his family and gone to join the carnage in the Middle East my heart breaks. You can, if you choose to, ignore the problem of the Muslim radicalisation of our youth in the mosques and on the streets. It is, after all, so easy to tolerate what does not immediately affect you, and it’s nice to feel that one is liberal about Islam. But the lesson I’ve learnt is that we’re going to have to fight for our progressive democracy, because although you may tolerate Islam, Islam might not tolerate you. When it lives in your house, eats your food, sleeps under your roof, enjoys all the comforts you provide, all the while despising you, then you will be forced to make a choice.

Claire Stevens is a pseudonym.

This article first appeared in the print edition of The Spectator magazine, dated 4 October 2014 

LINK
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #486 on: October 04, 2014, 10:03:33 »
It's nice to read of a success story.  However, it's sad to think it's the only one I've seen.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #487 on: October 04, 2014, 18:41:29 »
It's nice to read of a success story.  However, it's sad to think it's the only one I've seen.

Makes me wonder how many more "Claires" there are out there who are losing the struggle.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #488 on: October 06, 2014, 10:39:20 »
I'm worried about my nephew in Malaysia, he is turn 16 and a good kid, but will be exposed to a lot of crap and not much I can do about it.

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #489 on: October 06, 2014, 16:15:54 »
More about the radical Islamists in Australia:

Reuters

Quote
Crime and gangs: the path to battle for Australia's Islamist radicals
Reuters

By Matt Siegel | Reuters – 16 hours ago

SYDNEY (Reuters) - The children of refugees who fled Lebanon's civil war for peaceful Australia in the 1970s form a majority of Australian militants fighting in the Middle East, according to about a dozen counter-terrorism officials, security experts and Muslim community members.

Of the 160 or so Australian jihadists believed to be in Iraq or Syria, several are in senior leadership positions, they say.

But unlike fighters from Britain, France or Germany, who experts say are mostly jobless and alienated, a number of the Australian fighters grew up in a tight-knit criminal gang culture, dominated by men with family ties to the region around the Lebanese city of Tripoli, near the border with Syria.

Not every gang member becomes an Islamic radical and the vast majority of Lebanese Australians are not involved in crime or in radicalism of any sort.

(...SNIPPED)

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #490 on: October 07, 2014, 13:09:41 »
Don't tell me that ISIS is even trying to recruit bored okatu geeks from Japan?  :facepalm:

Military.com

Quote
Report: Japanese Had Plans to Join Islamic State

Associated Press | Oct 07, 2014
TOKYO — Japanese police questioned a university student and several others Monday over suspected plans to travel to Syria to join the Islamic State group, news reports said.
The reported investigation by Tokyo police would be the first indication of possible support within Japan for the militant group.

Tokyo Metropolitan Police declined to comment on the reports.
Public broadcaster NHK and Kyodo News service said investigators questioned a 26-year-old male Hokkaido University student and several men who shared a house with him on suspicion they were preparing to go to Syria to fight.

Investigators believe that the student, who is on a leave of absence from school, responded to a poster at a used-book store in downtown Tokyo offering positions for "work in Syria," Kyodo said. It quoted investigators as saying the student admitted he had planned to join the group in Syria. Police have not found records of any travel there, it said.


(...SNIPPED)

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #491 on: October 07, 2014, 14:04:43 »
I remember the terrorists of the 70s - Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, Carlos the Jackal etc. IIRC the terrorists were mostly university grads, upper middle class types with SFA better to do than kill people.

It seems to me that those joining ISIS are the same type.

Poor folk have better things to do than cause mayhem. They have to earn a living.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #492 on: October 07, 2014, 22:51:37 »
Australia demonstrating it means business when it comes to combating radical Islam:

Reuters

Quote
Australian PM orders crackdown on visas for radical preachers

By Matt Siegel

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Wednesday that he was ordering a crackdown to prevent radical Islamist preachers entering the country, amidst rising tension with the Muslim community following a series of security-related raids.

Abbott, who recently warned that the balance between freedom and security "may have to shift" to protect against radicalized Muslims seeking to carry out attacks, said hate preachers would now be "red-carded" during the visa process.

The tougher new system, which he said would not require new legislation, comes on the heels of a speech in Sydney last week by Hizb ut-Tahrir, an international group that says its goal is to establish a pan-national Muslim state.

(...SNIPPED)

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #493 on: October 08, 2014, 11:53:19 »
We have seen, in the last couple of decades, a rise in the Muslim populations throughout Western Europe.  The troubles in the UK, France, Holland and the Scandinavian countries have been headline news on a regular basis.  The wave of anti-IS protests organized by Kurdish activists has rocked many European capitals, including London, Brussels, The Hague and in Sweden’s Gothenburg brings a new twist to the mix.  We are now seeing secular protests and attacks within the Muslim communities.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #494 on: October 08, 2014, 16:05:21 »
Not to worry, folks - Public Safety Canada's getting some of our greatest minds all over it.  These, from the buyandsell.gc.ca public tendering site:
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #495 on: October 08, 2014, 18:20:47 »

I hope readers took the time to watch the explanation. The "morality play" the children saw, and in which other children participated, commemorates the slaughter of the Prophet Mohammed's family by the caliphate of the day. It is disturbing, especially in light of what IS** is doing, but it hardly rises to the headline of "Mosque teaches 4-5 beheading" ... unless we can say that the Passion Play" teaches Christians how to crucify Jews.


In discussion of radical Islam, and several times while reading this thread, I have noticed the trend of loading up a proverbial sawed-off shotgun and sending scatter shot haphazardly in the general direction of monotheistic worldviews (read: Christianity). It is important to note the fundamental differences in the ways that the two deal with offenders (outside of maybe the WBC which is largely considered a den of raving heretics by just about every Christian outside of their small family group - and even they haven't gone out and killed anyone as far as I know). "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is simply not a philosophy very conducive to Islam, much less as practised by Izzy IS and Friends.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #496 on: October 09, 2014, 22:06:25 »
A scary prospect...

Yahoo Daily Brew

Quote
The reality of 'terror tourism' shown as CSIS tracks 80 terror suspects in Canada
By Matthew Coutts | Daily Brew – 6 hours ago

As Canada’s military prepares to engage the Islamic State terrorist group ISIS overseas, the battle has taken another turn closer to home, where threats have been leveled, and security agents recently detailed the task they face in monitoring as many as 80 suspects currently on Canadian soil.

The head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) recently confirmed the number of people who have returned to Canada after visiting violent regions around the world. According to QMI Agency, Michel


Coulombe said the spy agency knows exactly where each of those suspects is.

Coulombe further added there were more Canadians, between 130 and 145, currently overseas and involved with terrorist groups. The news comes on the heels of a compelling report from NBC News, which cites intelligence officials who say Canadian authorities have overheard terrorist suspects plan ISIS-inspired attacks inside the country.

(...SNIPPED)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #497 on: October 09, 2014, 23:28:50 »
A scary prospect...

Yahoo Daily Brew

Most North Americans are sitting safely in their homes, and don't think of this kind of thing being possible.  Of course it is possible.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #498 on: October 16, 2014, 22:02:55 »
A blog post on the reality of Islam as preached and practiced in Saudi Arabia. This is what westerners who join Jihad find appealing? The rational mind boggles:

http://sultanknish.blogspot.ca/2014/10/the-savage-lands-of-islam.html

Quote
The Savage Lands of Islam

Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog 9 Comments

The Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia ruled that ten year old girls can be married off, because in his words, "Good upbringing makes a girl ready to perform all marital duties at that age."

The Mufti, who also called for destroying churches in the Arabian Peninsula, is descended from Mohammed Wahhab who gave birth to Wahhabism and whose descendants have controlled the Saudi religious establishment, and through it Islam around the world.

However for all his power and influence, the Mufti is blind and hasn't seen a thing in the last half century years; an apt metaphor for his entire religion.

Saudi Arabia, the heartland of Islam, still tries and executes witches. What sort of religion can come out of a place that marries off ten year old girls and murders old women on charges of witchcraft? The sort that flies planes into skyscrapers, murders teenage girls for using Facebook and bases its entire society on a ladder with Muslim men at the top, Muslim women a few rungs below and everyone else somewhere at the bottom.

The Saudis are not an aberration, they are Islam in its purest and truest form. That is why Al Qaeda was founded by a Saudi and why Saudis, the wealthy citizens of a wealthy kingdom, are its best recruits. It is not poverty or oppression that moves them to kill, but wealth and privilege.

This is where Islam originated, whose brutality and cunning spread it across the world, whose clans killed each other, then killed or enslaved minority groups, and then embarked on a wave of conquest that destroyed countless cultures and left behind the seeds of hate of the wars we are fighting today.

Unlike Egypt or Syria, they were never colonized by European powers and the impact of Ottoman influence was limited. Oil has brought in massive amounts of money, but it has changed very little. There are limousines instead of camels, the slaves have foreign passports, though they are often still slaves, there is still a brisk trade in imported luxury goods, harems for princes and clans staggering under the weight of their indolent progeny.

Religiously, Wahhabism has done its best to recreate the "pure" Islam of its origins. Economically, oil has allowed the Gulf Arabs to prosper without reform or change. And if Mohammed were to ride out of the desert tomorrow, he would have little trouble fitting in, as soon as he developed a taste for Porsches. Anyone who wants to see the world as it was in Mohammed's day can visit Saudi Arabia and see inbred clans, slave labor, veiled women and thugs enforcing the will of Allah on every corner.

But you don't even need to visit Saudi Arabia because diluted forms of it can be found everywhere from Cairo to London and from Islamabad to Los Angeles. A hundred and fifty years after the United States freed its slaves, Muslim immigrants have brought back slavery, importing young girls to live as their slaves. Ninety years after American women won the right to vote, the ghosts of Islam tread the streets in sheets that hide their personhood and mark them as property.

The religious wars of the desert have not stayed there as the immigration Hegira has brought them here and everywhere. And that is the source of the Clash of Civilizations. Immigration has brought Muslims into closer contact with different cultures and religions who don't defer to them or give Islam the privileged status that its adherents are used to enjoying.

To know the truth of this all you have to do is measure the respective tolerance levels of America  against the average Muslim country. There is no comparison with even the more secular Muslim countries, not in law and not in public attitudes. The sole benefit of the Arab Spring has been to expose the fraud of the moderate Muslim country. Egypt's transition to theocracy reminds us that a moderate Muslim state is a completely unrepresentative dictatorship. The alternative is majority Muslim rule.

The endgame of the Arab Spring and the immigration Hegira is to reduce the entire world to the level of Saudi Arabia. And that means eliminating outside influences in a long march to purification.  Islamists know that they cannot enjoy complete cultural dominance over their own people until their rivals in the West are obliterated. To turn Egypt and Malaysia into Saudi Arabia, and to purify Saudi Arabia, the infidels must be brought down, their religions subjugated and their nations replaced with proper Islamic states.

Islamic leaders are under no illusion that religion is a spiritual matter, they know that it is a numbers game. Wage enough wars, terrorize enough nations, marry enough barely post-pubescent girls and use them to crank out an endless supply of babies, intimidate or trick enough infidels into joining up and you win. That was how Islam took over so much territory and spread around the world, that is how it is doing it again now.

Islam is not a spiritual religion, even its paradise is a materialistic place, a fantasy harem where the physical pleasures of life can be enjoyed without restraint. That gives it an advantage over Judaism and Christianity, just as it gives the Saudis and the Pakistanis an advantage over the Americans and Israelis. There is no angst in Islam, no spiritual seeking and no room for doubt. The marching orders are always clear and individual deeds and thoughts matter less than a willingness to always obey.

Islam came out of the desert and it has never left the desert, instead it has brought the desert with it along with its codes, its deep hatreds, its constant deprivation, its deceptiveness and its nomadic expansionism. Where Islam goes, the desert rises, its tents, its red knives and its insecurities. It was backward even at the time of its birth and it has only become more so, but its singlemindedness is an advantage in an age of effete leftectuals and eurocrats dreaming of a transnational world.

While the leftectuals dream of windmills, the Saudis hire foreigners to pump their oil and then sell it to them, the money goes to fund the Hegira, its mosques in every city from Dublin to Moscow to Buenos Aires and Toronto, the fatwas, the bombs, the websites where the masked faithful hold up AK-47's, the Islamic science courses and sessions on learning to love the Hijab and then the Burqa,

The Saudis just want what everyone wants, for everyone to acknowledge their greatness and live like them. They can hardly be blamed for that when the West spends almost as much money promoting democracy and its own way of life to people who still execute witches and blasphemers. They may be savages, but they fell *** backward into enough black gold to fuel a global religious war, and they're using it cleverly and cunningly to transform our societies and wage war against us even while attending dinners at the White House. It's smoother work than our diplomats are capable of.

You can hardly blame the desert bandits for being what they are, but you can blame the apostles of reason for preaching about a golden age of tolerance and enlightenment from every purloined pulpit and then turning away the heartland to a religion that is nakedly brutal and intolerant at home.

An honest look at Saudi Arabia, at its cruelty, its slaves, its intolerance of other religions and even of women, should be enough to tell even the dimmest Eton or Harvard grad exactly what the West is in for. No matter how many specialists in Muslim tolerance show up at universities, there is the Grand Mufti explaining that Mohammed commanded the eradication of Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula, and therefore there can be no churches allowed there.

Even few apologists for Islam will defend Saudi Arabia for the simple reason that it is indefensible. The media will run the occasional story about the House of Saud's commitment to reform, much as Charles Manson keeps committing to becoming a better person, but even they don't really believe it. Yet even though Saudi Arabia is the heartland of Sunni Islam, and its fortunes shape and control mosques and teachings around the world, they insist on treating Islam and Saudi Arabia as two separate things.

It is brutally telling that the two centers of Islam, Saudi Arabia for the Sunnis and Iran for the Shiites, are genuinely horrifying places. Neither can remotely be associated with tolerance or human rights. It is simple common sense that the spread of Islam will make Western countries more like Saudi Arabia and Iran, rather than less like them.

If Saudi Arabia is not an example that we wish to emulate, then why must we bodily incorporate the religion of Mecca and Medina into London and Los Angeles? What other possible outcome do we imagine that there will be but fewer rights and more violence, dead women, abused children, bomb plots and polygamy?

There are two Islams. The real Islam of the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and an imaginary Islam that exists only in the mosques of air and card table Korans of academics apologists and political pundits who have decided that Islam cannot be bad, because no religion can be bad, not even one which kills and kills, it must just be misunderstood.

But then why not tell the Grand Mufti that he has misunderstood his own religion, the religion that he and his ancestors have dedicated themselves to purifying and reforming back to its roots? Telling him that would be a dangerous thing on his own turf, but it would also be foolish. The Grand Mufti's controversial statements contain nothing that Mohammed had not said.

Can the founder of a religion misunderstand his own teachings?

Islam is savage, intolerant, cruel and expansionistic, not due to a misunderstanding, but an understanding of the worst aspects of human nature. It is what it is and no amount of wishing will make it otherwise.

We have opened the door to the desert and a hot wind blows through into the northern climes. Either we shut the door or get used to living in the Saudi desert.
- See more at: http://sultanknish.blogspot.ca/2014/10/the-savage-lands-of-islam.html#sthash.WYfwA4WU.dpuf

Quite frankly, the best defense would be a good offence; and since the battleground and target is the hearts and minds of followers of Islam (and potential converts), *we* had better get good at really understanding what Islam is about and finding and delivering countermessages through authoritative channels. Based on my own (rather limited) understanding, this is a radical version of Islam, much like the militant Catholic church of the Inquisition. But like Christianity, there are multiple branches of Islam as well, so *we* would be smart to enlist the help of another branch (say the Sufi's), flood the airways and mosques with their Imans (much the way the Saudis have used their petri dollars to inflict their radical Imans on us...) and peel away support for radicalism.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #499 on: October 21, 2014, 11:24:53 »
What culture are we defending?  Do we want immigrants to change our culture and religions to accommodate them, or do we want to integrate them into our broader society?  Here is a case where a cultural value, not religious, is being put forward as what we should accept as a Canadian cultural norm, that would hid the identity of the person under the disguise:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
MISSISSAUGA: PAKISTANI WOMAN TAKES FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO COURT OVER NIKAB BAN

cireport.ca
18 October 2014

Ex-immigration minister Jason Kenney ‘dictated’ niqab ban at citizenship ceremony, court told

A ban on veils while taking the citizenship oath was driven by Kenney’s own ideology, say lawyers for Zunera Ishaq, who is challenging the policy in court.
The federal government introduced a new policy to ban new citizens from wearing face-covering veil during the oath taking at citizenship ceremonies like this one in Toronto.

By: Nicholas Keung Immigration reporter, Published on Fri Oct 17 2014

A Mississauga woman has taken the federal government to court over a policy that forbids wearing the face-covering veil while taking the oath of citizenship, arguing the ban breaches her Charter rights and fails to accommodate her religious beliefs and dress code.

Banning the niqab from citizenship ceremonies is the result of former immigration minister Jason Kenney imposing his own ideology of “Canadian values” on the process, Zunera Ishaq’s lawyer, Naseem Mithoowani, told federal court Justice Keith Boswell at a hearing in Toronto on Thursday.

“The true motivation of the policy is to compel Muslim women to abandon, albeit briefly, their religious adherence,” Mithoowani said.
(…)

It’s the first such challenge against the niqab ban at citizenship ceremonies; if successful, it could strike down the policy.

In December 2011, Kenney brought in the ban in an operational manual — rather than new legislation — in a series of measurements meant to strengthen the integrity of Canadian citizenship that also included raising the pass mark for the citizenship test and stricter residency and language requirements.

“(The) cultural tradition. . . reflects a certain view about women that we don’t accept in Canada,” Kenney, now Canada’s employment minister, said then.
(…)

Ishaq, who was not in court, started wearing the niqab at 15 and said it has become part of her identity. In 2008, she was sponsored to Canada from Pakistan by her husband.

She put her citizenship ceremony on hold in January as a result of the ban.

Ishaq said she had no issue with removing her niqab in a private setting if it is “necessary” for security or identification purposes, but felt it’s different “being seen” taking the citizenship oath in a room full of others.

Government lawyer Negar Hashemi said the case is about finding the “right balance” between respecting differences and maintaining Canadian core democratic values.

The niqab ban, she said, is part of a larger scheme to ensure everyone vows loyalty to Canada. Other non-veil-wearing candidates caught not doing so, such as elderly people with language difficulties, can also have their citizenship certificates withheld. “There is no hidden agenda in this case,” she said.

Hashemi said Ishaq did not seek accommodation prior to her scheduled citizenship ceremony and declined the offer to take her oath at the front or the back of the citizenship court after the legal action was initiated.

She noted that the applicant unveiled herself to have her driver’s licence photo taken, and the brief unveiling at a citizenship ceremony would be no different.

“She had a choice of becoming a citizen or adhering to her religion,” said Hashemi. “Becoming a citizen is a privilege, not a right.”

Lorne Waldman, a co-counsel for Ishaq, said the Citizenship Act does not stipulate that a candidate must be seen or heard taking the oath — something witnesses for the immigration department agreed is hard to enforce and ensure.

“This policy was dictated by the immigration minister (Kenney) that there had to be a change, and there’s no willingness to provide any accommodation,” said Waldman, adding that officials confirmed there are fewer than 100 cases a year across Canada where someone wears a niqab to the ceremony.

Everyone attending a citizenship ceremony must show their face and be identified by immigration officials, though women wearing a niqab can ask to go to a private space and unveil in front of a female officer.

While in the past these women were allowed to take the oath with face covered, Waldman said, they now must remove the scarves in public during the two minutes of oath-taking before a citizenship judge.

“The applicant has the right to be accommodated. It’s her right to take the oath without taking off the niqab,” said Waldman.

Justice Boswell reserved his decision.



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