Author Topic: CIC enrollment  (Read 57168 times)

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Offline GridNorth

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2009, 15:00:59 »
I am a CI/CV right now with a corp and at this point it is not what i thought it would be. I feel like a outsider in this corp, I just basically walk around overseeing the kids teach their classes or just sit in the office, thats all I do. The communication within the corp is non existent which makes it that much harder. Not sure if I am expecting too much from this but I am definately getting a little discouraged.
Keep your chin up. Sad truth of it is that the "recruiting" system for CIC is pretty messed up at the Moment - not pointing fingers, there are some decent excuses (operational tempo etc), but the sad fact is that the current process takes far too long, is plagued with errors/delays. When I joined the CIL (later CIC) in the early 80's I had my icard in 5 weeks!
So its not "you" - its the system - BUT don't forget the turmoil because someday you might be in a position to fix it, even incrementally. It's up to all of us to not lose track of these details.
Thanks for taking the time to volunteer - In the meantime find a small topic to become expert in and teach a class or two. you'll feel better!


Offline newfiegod

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2009, 00:22:38 »
Thanks for the reply, I am going to talk to my CO later this week to discusss where exactly I fit in this corp. I would like to be more involved with the kids rather than just walking by their classes and checking in. I am going to call the recruiting office to check on my status this week as well.

Offline Ocdt. Mann

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2009, 21:44:07 »
The CIC recruiting procvess also takes a while because the CFRC needs to bring in special adminnistrators for your interview, since working with kids they need to ask you more in depth questions so make sure you keep in touch with the CFRC so you can get an interview asap. 
"Only when the leader of the opposition stands infront of me in uniform will I care about his opinion"
-Steven Harper in response to calls for the resignation of the Chief of Defence Staff

Offline newfiegod

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2009, 23:22:49 »
I have been on top of the recruiting office to make sure things are going smoothly. I called the other day to check on things and they scheduled my interview and physical for April 8 so that is pretty good!!

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2009, 23:36:15 »
but going through previous post on this site people can be pretty anal about the most insignifigant things rather than focusing on the real topics.

You are talking about a group of people who, for those serving / have served, have earned whatever rank they hold / held the hard way. So if we are anal about people putting up things they havent earned the right to.......we will because we earned it.

Good luck with you application.

Offline newfiegod

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2009, 23:54:05 »
Please move on!!!! I started this post to get some useful information from people who experienced it .....not to nit pick about some insignia I accidently put up!!! Thank you for your 2 cents.

Offline Northalbertan

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2009, 20:24:47 »
I am going thru the process myself, so far my CI paperwork has gone through all right and I have an interview in three weeks at my local CFRC.  Five months to get this far.  That is not not real bad, and I think the others are right.  CIC enlistment is at the bottom of the priority list and rightly so.  Considering the operational tempo of the CF for the past few years I'm actually rather impressed that the CIC stuff is getting done as fast as it is.  In the mean time I am a CI and able to instruct the cadets and perform Admin officer duties at my local corps.  That's the bottom line.  You should be involved in the CCO for one reason only, The Cadet.  The fact that you receive an officers rank and some excellent training along the way is a great bonus, but should not be the primary reason you are there.

Having said that I realise that being a member of the officer corps of the CF should impart a sense of responsibility on those so involved.  I know a CIC does not receive the same training nor does he have to attain the same standards (physically or knowledge based), but he should try to maintain the highest standards he can, including dress and deportment, and physical fitness.  As with anything else in the military I guess you get out of it what you put into it.

Sorry for the preaching.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Offline newfiegod

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2009, 21:43:10 »
Well I had my interview/physical and everything went great and I was accepted for enrollment so I am just waiting to get the info to start my DL. I have been a cv/ci at this corp since December 08 so things progressed in a fairly timely manner. On another note , I agree it is definately about the kids and that is why I am there. Sadly there are people with different agendas.... and officers who just sit in the office all evening long with no interaction with the kids. I interact with the kids as much as possible and you can certainly tell the difference. From what I been told the CIC over the years has started to lean towards the administration of things as opposed to the training and interaction with the cadets. I could be wrong or misled but from what I have seen personally that seems to be the case and that is where I feel I can make a difference!

Offline CICPropjock

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2009, 03:23:55 »
Well glad to hear that all went well.  Just popped by this thread and thought I'd drop in a quick line.  I was recently enrolled, after applying in October originally.  I will wholeheartedly agree and support the point that you need to be persistent with the CFRC as well as your RCSU.  I found on more than one occassion that: "Oh yes... I 'just received' you paperwork"... what a coincidence! lol  Further to that, was I the only one to end up with frustrations in the background check?  Apparently now that Backcheck is completing Backgrounds, they only ask questions which are pertinent to all applicants, and a career councellor needs to follow up with your references personally to ask the really uncomfortable questions.  I certainly have faith in the process based on the nature of the work, but I find it unfortunate; while it paints a bigger picture, that the CIC does not have more representation at the CFRC's.  Perhaps that would put more emphasis on completing the enrollment for applicants just the same as PRes/Reg applicants seem to receive, although in all fairness, they don't ride in the express lane at times either.   

At any rate, it's certainly nice to be in now.  You are absolutely right on a select portion of the CIC members.  It would seem that some get off on the uniform and the status, which is taxing and somewhat embarrassing, especially if you are someone like myself with aspirations of a Reg F career, and yet also sees the benefits of Canada's best kept secret.  I'm proud to be a new member of the CIC, and I want to keep my head high when I tell others what my role within the CF is.

REMEMBER THE CADET
Nicholas J. Vanaalst
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Offline gwp

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2009, 19:58:42 »
The last three posts have aspects that are generalizations without foundation.

Quote
also sees the benefits of Canada's best kept secret.
When polled 97% of adults and 87% of youth know about the Cadet Organizations.  While it is true that there is not a high level of understanding about the benefits, the program is not a secret.

Quote
Sadly there are people with different agendas
Happily just like the RegF and the PRes those people are very much in the minority.

Quote
I know a [CF Reserve] CIC [Officer] does not receive the same training nor does he have to attain the same standards (physically or knowledge based)
Don't sell yourself short.  Just like all members of the CF you will receive the required training to do your job.  You will bring your own life skills and other qualifications to the the mission.  You have a duty to look after your people and keep them in good discipline (lead them) in the same manner as any other officer of the CF.

Now, just because I over reacted ... doesn't mean anyone else has to.  :salute:
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 20:04:34 by gwp »

Offline MKO

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2009, 21:07:11 »
Was just pointed to this discussion and the issue of priority for CIC applicants - could I explain how CIC fits into the overall series of priorities that the CFRC COs must manage.

Part of the background is that at any given moment, the COs are managing the processing for 113 Regular Force occupations, a variable number of Reserve Force occupations depending on the Reserve units in their AOR, CIC officers as well as Aboriginal entry programmes and a number of Regular Force entry programmes such as ROTP that generate their own pressures.  Many of them have their own particular wrinkles and deadlines such as a specific selection board, a specialist training course, basic qualification course or requirement to be ready for duty.  This is of course all uncoordinated so that there are always conflicting priorities that COs must manage with some guidelines from the Comd and the CFRGHQ staff.

We are not in an ideal world and have not all the personnel resources (career counsellors) or dedicated service delivery in sufficient quantity (medical screenings for example) to deal with all the priorities all the time and so these COs are juggling to try and satisfy to the best extent possible all their 'clients', the CIC Corps as much as anyone else.

When push comes to shove, all other things being equal, a CIC file will more than likely wait while other files that relate more directly to military capacity, whether Regular or Reserve Force are moved along to meet their timelines.  Rarely however are all things equal.  CIC files, like others, can get the attention they need in order to meet particular requirements of the Corps; for example they would be the only qualified officer (an overstatement, I hope, to illustrate the point).  This case needs to be made by the Corps and followed upwith the particular recruiting location, the same as is done by the Reserves for Reserve Force basic qualification course starts or priority recruiting occupations for the Regular Force occupations that I manage directly.  While a significant portion of my responsibility is for Regular Force files, I and my COs are very aware of and attentive to the pressures that operate for both the Reserve Forces and the CIC Corps and try to react accordingly with the resources they have.  I expect this of them and they operate under this guideline - they are also evaluated on the number of files RegF/ResF/CIC that they have to process and bring to closure successfully over the year, so I do have some visibility on this issue and if they are falling behind in one area I can see and then query what is happening.

This is only effective however, when the file is actually at the Recruiting Centre with the proper authority from the Corps and the necessary material from the applicant.  I noticed that in a number of the posts that the poster correctly identified this as part of the recruiting process, but may not have realised that it is not one that my COs have visibility upon nor influence over.  The time taken to get through the CIC authority is counted by laymen, and not unfairly, as 'recruiting time' however it is not CFRG generated time.

Even when my Centres have the files, several aspects are out of my control, such as the confirmation of the medical status, which is the Health Services Group, or the security status verification, which is a Deputy Provost Marshall responsibility.  Each also have their own 'dragons to slay' when it comes to meeting their full range of obligations for service delivery - we do however flag files for particular attention and they respect this however their other priorities may slow down their reaction to recruiting files generally and the priority files are affected equally.

At the present time, we are particularly busy with a great number of applicants, which is good news but particularly challenging as it is slowing down our ability to contact and then deal with any particular case, regardless of their priority.  Where there is a pressing need however, whether as a priority recruiting occupation for the Regular Force, recruits for a Reserve Force basic qualification course or a CIC officer where there is a pressing need, when it is identified by the chain of command, the CO can make an assessment of how best to meet it for the time required.  This takes active intercession early however, with regular contact for success.

Hope this provides some clarity.

MKO
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Offline CICPropjock

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2009, 02:47:05 »
LCdr,

You are absolutely correct on your reply, but I was indicating that the benefits are the secret, rather than the program as a whole.  I suspect retention would be much higher if the benefits were fully understood.  As long as I've been involved, the CCM has always been refered to as Canada's best kept secret.

Colonel,

Great post!  I believe it sheds light on the even larger picture, that as an applicant can be very hard to see.  CFRC Calgary was, at the end of the day, always a pleasure to deal with, and they were always ready, willing, and able to keep me in the loop.  I think a common thought amongst members of the CIC is that the recruiting time is simply far too long for the capacity that we ultimately occupy when compared to other applicants to the CF, which is in itself not always fair to ourselves in a way.  But I think that the real explanation for that is that we're all products of a great organization, and are just eager to get back into the world of the Cadet Movement.  At any rate, you and your staff on all levels must be commended on the daunting task of recruiting, and I would also extend a huge thumbs up on the recruiting advertisements and resources put forth which I would imagine your group has contributed to.  They captivate me more than a Flames game :)  ...just ask my fiance...  Keep up the outstanding work! 

(Colonel, Lieutenant Commander... please pardon my lack of "Sir"/"Ma'am" in the post... I opted for the side of caution as posts are not gender specific, but I can certainly offer this :salute: )
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 02:53:06 by CICPropjock »
Nicholas J. Vanaalst
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Offline Kyle Burrows

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2009, 07:27:09 »
You are absolutely correct on your reply, but I was indicating that the benefits are the secret, rather than the program as a whole.  I suspect retention would be much higher if the benefits were fully understood.  As long as I've been involved, the CCM has always been refered to as Canada's best kept secret.
Just as it was when I was a cadet. ;)  There is a difference between knowing they exist and knowing what to do.  If you count knowing about cadets as having seen them once outside a grocery store then your numbers aren't exactly giving you the best info.

Quote
(Colonel, Lieutenant Commander... please pardon my lack of "Sir"/"Ma'am" in the post... I opted for the side of caution as posts are not gender specific, but I can certainly offer this :salute: )

We're all informal here.  Stating rank just allows a poster to show where they're "coming from".  A Colonel is probably more qualified to answer infrastructure questions than a new Private, for example.  It doesn't mean there isn't respect - just a lack of formal address.  Every so often we get someone who comes along and demands we give them the respect they deserve because they're a Warrant Officer, etc.  We laugh at them.  We have found informality to work best here as we're all on even footing and the conversation reflects that.
Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility.
-- February 1955 Combat Forces Journal


Offline gun runner

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2009, 07:37:26 »
Ok, Back on target.. I have been in the system for going on a year now, my paperwork went in 25May08, and the CFRC sent me back a reply 25Nov08 that i would also require my C.F medical paperwork as I have a minor heart murmur. The Archives personnel wrote me back 21Feb09 saying that they do not have my C.F.medical docs, I would have to send to NDHQ for these. Then, 2 weeks ago, CFRC gets back to me stating that if I do not hear from the NDHQ by next week to contact them and they will arrange the medical/interview without these docs. I have been out of the forces for 17+ years and am still in fairly good shape(don't ask me to do the beep test!), I want to know what the blazes is happening with this process??? Ubique
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Offline Nerf herder

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2009, 10:56:07 »
Every so often we get someone who comes along and demands we give them the respect they deserve because they're a Warrant Officer, etc.  We laugh at them.  We have found informality to work best here as we're all on even footing and the conversation reflects that.

That and the fact that anyone can come on here and try to impersonate a rank/ position...mind you they get outed pretty fast. It is the interweb after all.

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Offline CICPropjock

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2009, 06:38:01 »
Ok, Back on target.. I have been in the system for going on a year now, my paperwork went in 25May08, and the CFRC sent me back a reply 25Nov08 that i would also require my C.F medical paperwork as I have a minor heart murmur. The Archives personnel wrote me back 21Feb09 saying that they do not have my C.F.medical docs, I would have to send to NDHQ for these. Then, 2 weeks ago, CFRC gets back to me stating that if I do not hear from the NDHQ by next week to contact them and they will arrange the medical/interview without these docs. I have been out of the forces for 17+ years and am still in fairly good shape(don't ask me to do the beep test!), I want to know what the blazes is happening with this process??? Ubique

I think it is safe to say that any medical aspects can change the process dramatically.  A recently enrolled member I know was in the process for about the same length of time, and this is a pretty common concern for alot of applicants.  Personally, I have a medical history with some issues that are head shakers.  All of these points are completely explainable, and I no longer deal with these issues, to which I brought all documentation from specialists and my family Physician to support my application.  CFRC and the CFMG seemed to really appreciate this, and I ran into next to nothing for resistance to my application.  But recent and ongoing cardiac health concerns can be of great concern to ANY employer, not to mention the CF, and I wouldn't even know where to start when speculating on the time it would add to the process. 

Further to that, Prior service is definately another aspect, and from my understanding, the farther back they have to go, the worse it gets for pulling information. 

Stay positive, and do what I did... be nosey!  It's your application, it's about you, and you want to know!   :2c:
Nicholas J. Vanaalst
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"A strong man stands up for himself, a stronger man stands up for others"
~Ben the Cow

Offline MKO

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2009, 20:39:18 »
CICPropJock,

Glad the post hit the mark.  Thanks for the credit to my staff, they work pretty hard at trying to get everyone the service and attention they deserve, regardless of the circumstances.

Cheers, MKO

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Offline gun runner

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2009, 14:46:44 »
Ok here is an update for you all.. First thanks to CICPROPJOCK for the advice, I will do just that. The contact at the CFRC told me to wait just one more week, and then contact him, I will do just that, but I am curious... how many times is he going to tell me to wait just one more week? For the rest of the summer.. or the rest of the year? I guess I have been patient this far along..I can wait the week or two, but my patience isn't limitless.My CO is on the phone to the detachment, and they are checking things on their end, but I feel it will do no good, as CFRC and detachment are two different entities. I feel that i am being put into a call waiting box and forgotten, simply because I have previously served. Ubique
Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Sir Winston Churchill.

The only thing for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing. Edmond Burke.

Offline N. McKay

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2009, 06:34:26 »
Sadly there are people with different agendas.... and officers who just sit in the office all evening long with no interaction with the kids. I interact with the kids as much as possible and you can certainly tell the difference. From what I been told the CIC over the years has started to lean towards the administration of things as opposed to the training and interaction with the cadets. I could be wrong or misled but from what I have seen personally that seems to be the case and that is where I feel I can make a difference!

To a certain extent, the balance between office time and classroom time for an officer is a measure of the senior cadets in the unit.  The ideal situation is for the senior cadets to be doing the overwhelming majority of the teaching and immediate supervision.  The role of officers in the cadet programme is to oversee the unit and do the administrative and planning work that can't be done by cadets.  When a unit has good senior cadets -- and enough of them -- then then officers are able to concentrate on those tasks.

Offline opie_cic

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2009, 19:45:36 »
The last three posts have aspects that are generalizations without foundation.
When polled 97% of adults and 87% of youth know about the Cadet Organizations.  While it is true that there is not a high level of understanding about the benefits, the program is not a secret.

I realize I'm a bit off topic here, but I would love to see the poll that this information comes from.  The only one I've found is a Jan 2006 Ipsos-Reid poll, and the numbers were far, far less than that.

http://www.cadets.ca/uploadedFiles/Websites/R%C3%A9gion_de_l_Est/support/ap/doc/Ipsos-Reid%20Baseline%20Survey%20of%20Cadets.pdf
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Offline gwp

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2009, 03:22:37 »
I realize I'm a bit off topic here, but I would love to see the poll that this information comes from.  The only one I've found is a Jan 2006 Ipsos-Reid poll, and the numbers were far, far less than that.

See item 4.2 in the CROP Survey at the bottom the page at this link.
http://www.cadets.ca/content-contenu.aspx?id=74162

Offline nicholas123

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2009, 02:03:54 »
Hi,

So I just recently became enrolled in the CIC in February of this year. I was just wondering if CIC members receive any sort of health benefits from the CF?

I found this on the forces website
"Members of the Regular Force and members of the Reserve Force on Class C service, and Class B service for over 180 consecutive days, may receive the benefits listed in this guide when deemed necessary for medical, dental or operational reasons.

Members of the Reserve Force on Class B service for 180 consecutive days or less, on Class A service and Canadian Rangers may be entitled to receive the benefits and services listed in this guide. These are generally limited to the treatment of injuries sustained while on military duty."

But it doesn't make much sense to me cause Im unsure of what Class CIC falls under, if it falls under a class. Any help would be appreciated.

Offline ArmySailor

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2009, 02:08:15 »
Class A = short term employment of less than 12 days

Class B = short term employment in excess of 12 continuous days.

Class C = You wont be on this.

So....pick which one you fall into.


Offline Kyle Burrows

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2009, 12:51:19 »
CIC officers are class A.  The exceptions to this are when you are Officer Staff at a cadet training centre or a full-time staff member at a Regional Cadet Support Unit (RCSU). As cadet camps don't run over 180 days, you would not receive benefits for that.

For class A, you would be covered for all injuries sustained while on paid-duty.
Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility.
-- February 1955 Combat Forces Journal


Offline gwp

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Re: CIC enrollment
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2009, 23:13:10 »
CIC officers are class A.  The exceptions to this are when you are Officer Staff at a cadet training centre or a full-time staff member at a Regional Cadet Support Unit (RCSU). As cadet camps don't run over 180 days, you would not receive benefits for that.

For class A, you would be covered for all injuries sustained while on paid-duty.
As a member of the Canadian Forces you are covered in accordance with the instructions noted above whether you serve class A or B or exceptionally on Class C.

Because Cadet Instructors, unlike members of the Primary Reserve and Regular Force, also volunteer their time there is also provision for coverage on unpaid duty.  See CATO 23-11 for details as well as the Chief of Military Personal Instruction 20-04 referenced there along with CATO 13-12.

Now that you are fully enrolled in the CF you would do well to read as much as you are able of QR and O, QR Cadets, CATO, and other relative regulations.  Spend a little bit of time reading three or four documents at a time. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 23:21:05 by gwp »