Author Topic: Re: The West/A Little Nest/And You  (Read 1016 times)

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Re: The West/A Little Nest/And You
« on: September 22, 2002, 08:49:00 »
Posted by Ian Edwards <iedwards@home.com> on Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:01:45 -0600
1 True. But some can have long memories. And it can happen again.
Meantime, how about returning the $100 billion taken under the NEP?
2. Actually, the Alberta oil industry, in the immediate post-Leduc era
that‘s 1947 btw was financed by the Canadian banks providing the debt
financing to the American oil coys who pledged bugger-all in the way of
equity up front. One could say that Uncle Louis, the Liberal PM at the
time, sold all of Canada out thru his banking laws. Any possible direct
subsidies came from Ernie Manning and Cabinet, not from national
coffers.
3 Yes, the Liberals jump to the WTO rulings, the Americans and
Brazilians tend to ignore them or stall them off for years if they wish.
And most other nations in the world have anti-dumping, countervail and
non-trade barriers that make us Canucks look like Pollyanna‘s.
4 "Those who ignore history are bound to ...." In spite of it all we do
have a most wonderful country, from sea to sea to sea.
[Title with apologies to Mark Kenny and his Western Swing Orchestra,
circa 1937: Regina, SK and Waterton Lakes National Park, AB]
"Joan O. Arc" wrote:
>
> 1  The NEP was repealed years ago.
>
> 2 Alberta‘s oil industry was developed largely on the back of subsidies
> provided by central Canada for many years prior to the passage of the NEP.
> This is a phenomenon known as "tit for tat" and is the sort of thing good
> neighbours do for each other from time to time.
>
> 3 If you follow the news, you will note that last week the WTO ruled the
> Auto Pact off-side and it, like the NEP, is now about to go the way of the
> dinosaur.
>
> 4 Yes, some policies towards the West and my native Maritimes have been
> unfair. As have some towards central Canada particularly Ontario. But
> overall we are a blessed people in a blessed country and regional sniping
> and grudge-bearing do none of us any credit, or, for that matter, once the
> offending policies are off the books, good.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Ian Edwards
> Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
> Subject: Re: The West
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:40:03 -0600
>
> I agree with Derrick. Some of those "old" grievances are still around.
> Why do I have to suffer the extra price to buy a Canadian or at worst
> North American made Honda/Toyauto because of the Auto Pact?
>
> Democracy only works when the majority respects the rights of the
> minority. It seems to have been OK for Central Canada to exploit the
> West/East with higher priced domestic manufactured goods but when energy
> becomes a major factor of production costs then the NEP is legislated
> for the good of the majority at the expense of the minority, who are
> what arrogance! supposed to remain hewers of wood and drawers of water
> well, as long as the prices of wood and water don‘t get too high.
>
> Derrick Forsythe wrote:
>  >
>  > Speaking as a fellow ex-pat Maritimer I‘ve always thought it odd that
> people
>  > who, by by some twist of fate, find themselves in a province blessed with
>  > resources are so quick to turn their red necks on the rest of the country
> -
>  > the same country that 70 years ago was loading freight cars with pickled
>  > herring, potatos, clothes and whatever else they could spare because
>  > depression-era Albertans found the dirt they were farming made not so
> good
>  > eating.
>  >
>  > New Brunswick and Nova Scotia were the two richest provinces at the time
> of
>  > Condeferation and with Maritime Union being discussed in Charlottetown in
>  > 1864 we would have been a strong position economically moving into the
> 20th
>  > century.
>  >
>  > But we got hood-winked by those Upper and Lower Canadians and the rest
> is,
>  > as they say, history.
>  >
>  > Thank God Brian Mulroney had the foresight to propose and bring into
> being a
>  > free trade agreement with the Excited States of America.  Maritimer
> business
>  > leaders can now return to our old North-South trading patterns that
> served
>  > us so well in the years before Canada.
>  >
>  > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > From: Joan O. Arc [SMTP:joan_o_arc@hotmail.com]
>  > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:15 AM
>  > > To:   army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > > Subject:      Re: The West
>  > >
>  > > Post-Free Trade, your latter point - about Central Canada exploiting
> the
>  > > "outlying regions" as captive markets for its goods - simply doesn‘t
> hold
>  > > water.
>  > >
>  > > It‘s time for the West to stop nursing old grudges, realize that by any
>  > > objective measure they live under incredibly propitious circumstances
> and
>  > > are now being given a fair deal by Confederation, and get over it.
>  > >
>  > > As an ex-pat Maritimer, I have no patience with people "Down East" when
>  > > they
>  > > whine on about their various historical regional grievances, and still
>  > > less
>  > > when folks in the far more prosperous West indulge in this kind of
>  > > infantile
>  > > and inaccurate whinging.
>  > >
>  > > Mistakes were made that have now been corrected - that‘s the way
> history
>  > > works - and perpetuating old grievances is hardly a constructive way to
>  > > move
>  > > forward as a country.
>  > >
>  > > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > > From: "Bruce Williams"
>  > > Reply-To: army@cipherlogic.on.ca
>  > > To:
>  > > Subject: Re: The West
>  > > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:20:46 -0600
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  > The Military has, in recent times, always been tied politics - why
> else
>  > >  > would we pay $3,000 for a personal weapon we could buy off the rack
> for
>  > > $300
>  > >  > - I don‘t even want to get into CF18 contracts and how we came to
>  > > possess
>  > >  > the Little ****ty Vehicle Wheeled.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > or do you want to discuss, in detail, how the eastern supply base
> came
>  > > to
>  > > be
>  > >  > in Montreal - not Kingston as recommended by the army.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > in the end defence and defence spending are and have been seen by
> many
>  > > in
>  > >  > Ottawa as an extension of regional development spending.  >
>  > >  >
>  > >
>  > > Several points come to mind as I read this:
>  > >
>  > > 1. The military serves the country through the democratically elected
>  > > government. We may not like the decisions and if enough people object
> the
>  > > government will change at election time. I‘ve seen the mess that
> happens
>  > > when the military tries to run a country...NO THANKS!
>  > >
>  > > 2. Every country attempts to spend tax dollars internally. Not only
> does
>  > > it
>  > > create jobs but in theory enhances the economic base so that GNP and
> GDP
>  > > increase. There is also the important idea that in the case of national
>  > > emergency when we may be cut of from foreign sources of production
> there
>  > > exists a production base and an experience base to build upon.
>  > >
>  > > 3. It has been Canadian policy since the 1870‘s that the Ontario/Quebec
>  > > would be the manufacturing base of the country and the west would
> provide
>  > > raw material agricultural and resources to sustain and enhance the
> base.
>  > > The side effect of this is that  Atlantic and Western Canada have for
> many
>  > > years paid more due to transportation costs and lack of economies of
>  > > scale
>  > > for manufactured goods than if they were important.
>  > >
>  > > These facts are not going to change just because we don‘t like them.
> There
>  > > are historical and economic reasons. While they may not be the best
> model
>  > > are what exists and that is the framework within which we operate.
>  > >
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