Author Topic: CF98's and VAC (merged)  (Read 23089 times)

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Offline trencher

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CF98's and VAC (merged)
« on: February 10, 2009, 12:00:30 »
Question guys I had a injury in march and i had to have surgery and i handed in a cf98 to my unit and no one can find it. Where can i find vetranan's affairs number. I want make sure my paper work was submitted to them.

Any ideas. The accident happened while i was on a CF100 leave pass.

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 12:04:25 »
Didn't you retain your copy of the CF 98?  Try asking the MO if it was PAd to your med docs.  Look in your UER, ask to see your Pers file.  If all else fails, last resort only, put in a memo to your TC/OC/CO asking for an investigation into a missing document.  Depending on how and why you were injured, VAC may not even look at your claim.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 12:12:39 »
Question guys I had a injury in march and i had to have surgery and i handed in a cf98 to my unit and no one can find it. Where can i find vetranan's affairs number. I want make sure my paper work was submitted to them.

Any ideas. The accident happened while i was on a CF100 leave pass.

I am not sure what you mean, but CF doesn't *submit* your paperwork to DVA/VAC...you authorize VAC to obtain info from your medical file and the CF provides it, but...if you are saying the CF98 was lost, how could anyone from VAC request something that is missing?

???

I don't think your CF98 will have the tick in the magic box about whether the injury occurred 'in the performance of military duties' if you were on leave...but I could be wrong.
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Offline medicineman

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 01:48:11 »
If they can't find the CF98 in the chain, re-initiate it and keep a copy.  The new one's (IIRC) is in fact an admin form, not medical, and even the old ones did end up in your pers file (I have a couple).  Ask to see if it's on your pers file.

MM
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Offline trencher

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 08:35:28 »
Basicly im still not at my unit i go back there in 2 months. I asked around at the unit via phone call and they can not find my CF98. I sent it to the BOR to a LS that is no longer there.

I was on a course and came home for the holidays and had the injury while on leave, Ive since been stuck here till 2 months i return to my unit. I have the orig copy and I was wondering if i could just personaly hand it to my COC and it get processed ?

Thanks.

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 10:09:33 »
Make about a thousand copies first.  NEVER give up your copy of the original.  I'm still pretty doubtful that VAC will be able to do anything for you, their rules are quite narrowly defined.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline CountDC

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 10:25:24 »
Can you send a fax from your location to the unit?  If the form is completed then the clerk can PA a fax copy to your pers file. 

What do you mean by processing??   As you mentioned VAC it appears that you are under the impression that the unit would automatically send a copy there for a claim.  This does not happen. 

If you are looking for a claim I highly doubt you will have any luck.  As the injury was while you were on leave then VAC will not touch you.  The injury has to be attributable to military service which is not the case when injured on leave.
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Offline geo

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2009, 11:20:37 »
For DVA to consider a claim, the injury has to have happened in the execution of your military duties, while you were on duty....
If you were at home & had a stroke... NADA
If you were on base, sitting at your desk and had a stroke ... NADA
If you were driving to work & got creamed... NADA
If you were on base & got creamed.... Bingo!
If you were injured on base, doing your work... Bingo!

If you were on vacation.... how would VAC consider the injury you experienced - to be attribuable to the service...
Chimo!

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: CF98 and vetreran's affairs
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2009, 13:49:07 »
trencher,

I advise you to contact VAC, the people answering the phones are now all trained to be able to give quick ansers to your queries with regards to what you can claim.

General Inquiries
All questions or comments on your VAC services and benefits may be directed to the following toll-free number:

1-866-522-2122 (English)
1-866-522-2022 (French)
Veterans Affairs Canada Web site


VAC FAQ

I will lock this, as there is no need to have it open.  Trencher, if you have any more info, PM me and I will unlock it for you.

dileas

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Offline Res Release Clerk

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VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2009, 07:04:39 »
I've been spending some time reading the posts on VAC. I was quite surprised at the number of people that had their claims denied at VAC. Being a reserve release clerk at an HQ level, I'm very familiar with the medical release process but dealing with VAC seems to be a horrible experience for most of you.

I recently begun the process of applying for a VAC pension (last week) and I have a few questions :
1. For those who had a good experience with VAC and had their claims approved, did you have a CF 98 for your injury?
2. For those of you that submitted a claim that was denied, did you have a CF 98 or was your injury due to years of overuse? Do you think your experience with VAC was bad because you weren't approved?
3. Were your claims approved after you appealed? How many appeals did it take?
4. Did any of you get a monthly pension from VAC AFTER 2006 or just lump sum payment?

Thanks for answering

Offline George Wallace

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2009, 08:04:57 »
I applied to VAC, years ago, for loss of hearing and lower back damage (Compressed discs).  I did not have a CF 98, and was hoping that documentation in my Med File would help.  It didn't.  I got a PFO from VAC.

What bothered me most was that it was well documented in studies done on Service members, as to what type of 'injuries' they will suffer in the various Trades of the CF.  Loss of hearing was well documented, as was compressed discs, amongst Armour Corps pers.   We had a discussion once on this site, where many Armour Crewmen complained of the loss of hearing in the Left ear.  This was a symptom of wearing a radio headset on that ear, and also the fact that the Main Gun of the tank was on that side (Commanders and Gunners).  Compressed discs were a result of the constant vibration of driving around in tracked vehicles.  With these studies done and the documentation that was recorded, you would think that with a person’s Service Record and Medical Files VAC could have come to the realization that the injuries were Service Related.  I guess not, and at the time it was a very frustrating process to deal with VAC.  Many who eventually received compensation/pensions had to apply several times to VAC and plead their cases.  VAC saved billions of dollars when many like me just threw up their hands in frustration and gave up. 

With the insistence now of any and all injuries, no matter how minor, being recorded on CF98s and a change in attitude (although minor) at VAC, I think the situation has improved slightly, although I have never dealt with them again. 

The CF98 wasn’t even heard of when I first joined.
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Offline Occam

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2009, 08:46:03 »
I applied for a pension for hearing loss and tinnitus just before the new rules came in.  I had been seeing an ENT specialist and audiologist on a regular basis to try and nail down the cause and treatment for the problem.  Eventually, the tinnitus and high range hearing loss was attributed to military service (noise exposure).  Fluctuation in the low audible range hearing was attributed to probable non-service related issues, although a specific diagnosis was never made.  The first pension application with VAC for tinnitus was denied, but that was because they did not have many of the reports and audiograms that had been done - an administrative snafu by the medical records section.  Hearing loss application was denied due to insufficient evidence that it was caused by military service.

BPA requested a Departmental Review (since the missing reports constituted new information being brought to the board), and once all the reports had been gathered up, the pension for tinnitus was finally granted at 5/5 and 5%.  The hearing loss application was granted at 2/5 and 5%, which when combined with the tinnitus disability works out to 7% but is rounded to the nearest 5%, so I gained nothing from the hearing loss claim.

Since then, I was given a hearing aid by the CF to compensate for the tinnitus.  VAC informed me that using a masker or other apparatus should raise my disability figure for tinnitus to 10%, and I go in for Departmental Review in two weeks for that hearing with VAC.  The BPA lawyer also wants to re-examine the issues behind the hearing loss, as it is no longer fluctuating.  Their take is that the tinnitus (which has been repeatedly measured at a certain pitch and amplitude) is now the cause of my low audible range hearing loss - akin to having a ~700 Hz tuning fork at 58 dB placed beside one's ear.  So, I think they're going to ask for a Departmental Review for the hearing loss application, based on some new evidence.

There were no CF98s to support any of this, as it was long term exposure that caused the problem.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2009, 08:56:42 »
I filed a claim in Sept '05 and received my reply confirming I had a pensionable injury in Oct '05 (1 month).  I had a CF98 and other supporting documents (the most recent at the time was a MRI report) attached to my application and that made all the difference in the world in my case.  The CF98 is an extremely important document.
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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 09:45:17 »
I've got a lengthy post somewhere around here about how I sent a memo addressed to my CO asking for an investigation into magically missing CF-98s from my med docs and pers file.  The smartest move a person can make who is facing a med release is to contact your local Royal Canadian Legion service officer.  I just handed over everything I could find to her, and she did 90% of the fighting with VAC.  I can't stress this enough, MAKE AND RETAIN A COPY OF EVERY CF-98 YOU EVER FILL OUT, REGARDLESS OF SEVERITY OF INJURY.  The army and VAC don't care if you can't find your copies, the CF-98 is the most important thing to VAC.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline medicineman

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2009, 10:40:22 »
There's an old medical/legal saying - "If it wasn't charted, it didn't happen".  If you don't report it and ensure a 98 is initiated, you're screwed, as an investigation to prove it happened on service time will ensue.  Just a note in your file saying "it happened at work, honestly" doesn't  seem cut it, though smart people would think the statement "pt brought in by ambulance to clinic after falling off LAV in maintenance bay" would suffice for that...when in doubt, fill one out for anything that will likely cause loss of time at work (ie not for a papercut that didn't get horribly infected), get you booted off a course, or could recur - ankle sprains can add up over the years.

Later.

MM
MM

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I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Res Release Clerk

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 10:56:19 »
I do have my CF98 for my knee injury as well as all the tests results and physio reports that were done last year so it should make things a lot easier I guess.

I sprained my left knee on BMQ in 2001 during a weekend of training in the reserves. I went to the hospital; they told me that nothing was broken, to use crutches and go home. Because I'm a reservist, I couldn't go to the base clinic for follow-ups and the doctor that saw me didn't recommend anything so I got no treatment whatsoever for a severe injury.

Since late 2001, I've been working full-time so I can go to the base clinic.

What I didn't know back then and found out last year after I complained of knee pain, is that even if the initial LCL MCL partially torn ligaments healed nicely, my PCL was completely torn in 2001. Because I didn't have any MRI or physio done, my PCL has a very impressive laxity  (just under an inch, about 18mm) that they can't repair surgically. I'll more than likely be released medically soon because of that.

I know exactly how the release process will go (that's my job) but I'm concerned about VAC. However, if I have all my paperwork, can they overule the medical diagnosis? Or am I worrying too much? Should I expect to wait over a year for an answer if everything is in order?

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 10:58:15 »
Folks,

Full stop. 

If you are being medically released, you are not going to be doing things on your own.  DCSM (Director of Casualty Support Management) .  has implemented the JPSU (Joint Personnel Support units) . which maintain 18 IPSC (Integrated Personnel Service Centre) through out Canada

Mission Statement

The Directorate of Casualty Support Management is a national organization that provides oversight and coordination leading to standardized and harmonized application of policies and delivery of multi-facetted programs to ensure support for the CF community, serving and retired

Vision Statement

Be a world leader in the provision of support and services to ill and injured military personnel, serving and retired, their families and the families of the deceased.


http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cen/atc-slc/function-fonction-eng.asp

They will help by proactively:

Searching for service records and other information

■Investigating files/documentation related to pension entitlement
 
■Liaising with external and internal organizations, and intervening on the clients’ behalf when necessary

■Maintaining a CF Casualty Administration database that includes CF 98 injury reports, Summary Investigations (SI) and Boards of Inquiry (BOI)


■Responsible for the CF Service Personnel Holding List (SPHL)

■Providing information on VAC services and benefits

■Providing “emergency aids to daily living” by means of a contingency fund

■Ensuring that members understand their benefits to Vocational Rehabilitation Program for Serving Members (VRPSM)

■Authenticating eligibility for the Public Service Commission (PSC) Hiring Priority/DND Employment Equity Program (EEP)

■Assisting medically released members in finding civilian employment through the Transition Assistance Program (TAP)

■Facilitate the transfer of existing military security clearances

■Assist with the establishment of local support network for members and veterans who have an Operational Stress Injury (OSI)

■Provide bereavement peer support to members and veterans through active listening and empathy by encouraging peers to reach out to available resources

■Providing emergency funding for travel from isolated areas to be with sick and injured family members

■Providing information and applications for the National Military Cemetery (NMC) in Ottawa

■Providing pastoral assistance to veterans and their families through the nationwide Pastoral Outreach Program for veterans

■Promoting and facilitating the restoration of the physical and mental health of injured or ill members by helping them reintegrate into the workplace as soon as medically possible through the Return to Work (RTW) Program for the Canadian Forces

Investigating files/documentation related to the Injured Military Members Compensation Act (IMMCA) for lump-sum benefits for eligible CF personnel who suffered service-related dismemberment and the total and irrecoverable loss of sight, hearing or speech



Each IPSC will have stake holders whose duty is to help the medically released soldier to transition properly.  Some of the people that will be present are VAC, OSISS, SISIP, out reach coordinators, Return to work Coordinator, and much more.

Yes, you require a CF98 to help you with a VAC pension; however the new system is to find how we can still manage that without one.  Talk to the right people.

If you have any questions, click on the links I have provided, or PM me.

dileas

tess
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 08:51:33 by the 48th regulator »
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Offline Lance Wiebe

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2009, 18:24:08 »
I went through all of the same crap that George did.  CF98's are the main criteria, believe me.  When I explained that I had never even seen a CF98 until the late 80's, I was told by the board members of the VAC that they were implemented in the 60's, so there was no excuse for not having one!  Trying to explain that they were never used in the 70's just fell on deaf ears.

So does talking about common injuries, backs, knees, etc.  No CF98, no settlement.  At least that was my experience.  Us old guys are out of luck, you young guys know better now!
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Offline BinRat55

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 09:37:04 »
There's an old medical/legal saying - "If it wasn't charted, it didn't happen".  If you don't report it and ensure a 98 is initiated, you're screwed, as an investigation to prove it happened on service time will ensue.  Just a note in your file saying "it happened at work, honestly" doesn't  seem cut it, though smart people would think the statement "pt brought in by ambulance to clinic after falling off LAV in maintenance bay" would suffice for that...when in doubt, fill one out for anything that will likely cause loss of time at work (ie not for a papercut that didn't get horribly infected), get you booted off a course, or could recur - ankle sprains can add up over the years.

Later.

MM

See, I never had a CF98 on my file when I applied and was denied. VAC said what you said - it never happened. I never told them I had an accident or a spontaneous injury that put me off work - I told them that through 20 years of humping stores as a supply tech and 20 years of digging trenches, hauling a rucksack from pillar to post and running in combat boots, I had screwed up both my shoulders. So, with the denial letter came an appeal. At my appeal, my appeal lawyer found something interesting on my file - a page from my book at the MIR where, in 1991 I had reported to the UMS after I had a log dropped on my shoulder. No CF98 was ever filled out, but because the injury was real (I had reported back 3 more times with pain in that shoulder) and documented somewhere - VAC conceded and awarded me 5/5ths (no percentage as of yet).

Moral? If a CF98 falls in the woods and there is no medic there to hear it, does it still make a sound? Absolutely it does!!
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline medicineman

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2009, 18:06:09 »
The reason CF98's aren't medical forms now - can't blame us anymore...on that note, for those out there that have initiated them in the past before the change and can't find them on your medical docs, they are/were supposed to be copied to your pers file as well.  Found a couple I initiated there when I did my privacy act request to see what people thought of me for the first 10 years of my career.

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline slayer14

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2013, 23:17:31 »
Has anyone had any recent experiences with application through VAC without having a CF-98?  I went on my jump course last year and got a very bad sprain on my ankle and eventually had to get surgery.  I was medically RTUd from CFLAWC, before leaving I filled out a CF-98 but I never got a copy of it cause it wasn't ready by the time I was sent home.  They said it would be sent to my unit and it never came.  I've looked for it in my pers file, and med file no luck in either.  Apparently there is a way to contact Ottawa to see if they have it, but I'm not too hopeful.

Therefore I was wondering if VAC will be able to cover me with med chits, surgeon notes, physio notes etc. Or if it absolutely takes a CF-98.

Thanks.

Offline MJP

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2013, 09:04:05 »
Has anyone had any recent experiences with application through VAC without having a CF-98?  I went on my jump course last year and got a very bad sprain on my ankle and eventually had to get surgery.  I was medically RTUd from CFLAWC, before leaving I filled out a CF-98 but I never got a copy of it cause it wasn't ready by the time I was sent home.  They said it would be sent to my unit and it never came.  I've looked for it in my pers file, and med file no luck in either.  Apparently there is a way to contact Ottawa to see if they have it, but I'm not too hopeful.

Therefore I was wondering if VAC will be able to cover me with med chits, surgeon notes, physio notes etc. Or if it absolutely takes a CF-98.

Thanks.

I have no advice on the VAC bit, but on the CF 98 side of the house start writing one and give it to your CoC to finish.  I am finishing up several right now for mbrs that got injured on training and the various TCs they were at never initiated CF98s. 

Hope is not a valid COA

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2013, 09:08:48 »
I recently begun the process of applying for a VAC pension (last week) and I have a few questions :
1. For those who had a good experience with VAC and had their claims approved, did you have a CF 98 for your injury?

Yes.  I had the CF 98, plus other docs (medical docs).  I applied in Sept (2005 I think) and had a reply back by end October same year.  There was a clear case of 'connect the dots' for my file. 

I am under the old charter so receive the monthly amount vice lump sum.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 14:40:33 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline blackberet17

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2013, 13:55:21 »
CF98s are not the be-all-end-all of your disability claim at VAC. They certainly do help your argument when you state your current disability is due to a specific injury, at a specific time, during your service period. So it's a bit of a double-edge there.

The big thing, of course, is documentation. Possibly, there were no such forms in George's time. Or if there were such forms, med pers didn't have you fill them out back then. I've seen CF98s and their predecessor documents in files going back to the days of SDA Cyprus. Prior to that, you'd have entries in the member's Medical Attendance Record.

BinRat55's point is scarily accurate. If it wasn't charted (or you didn't have any witnesses), it's a harder thing to prove. This goes with there being follow-on care. You say you hurt your ankle (this is an example only) during a BFT in 1982. You finished the ruck march. You didn't go to the MIR in the days or weeks following, nor in the years thereafter. You never saw a doc civ or mil. It's not until your release in 2012 you mention the ankle, there's an X-ray, you have OA of the ankle. It's a little difficult to now tie the ankle OA back to a single, now possible, injury during a BFT in 1982.

Now, say you did go to the MIR two days later, and it's noted the swelling hasn't gone down since the BFT. There's an X-ray, maybe a few years later, but there's a continuity of complaints in your file, throughout your service, after a BFT biennially (let's say). There is now documented evidence, a record, of the original injury and its recurrent effects. It's now a lot easier to tie the ankle OA back to the original 1982 injury.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: VAC - were you denied (or approved) because of a CF 98?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2013, 14:41:31 »
Although a lot of us older guys never heard of CF 98's until all the young pups in the late 90's and after were encouraged to fill them in for any injury, no matter how minor, there are other points that are being forgotten/overlooked/dismissed.  The CF conducted studies related to "workplace" injuries and came up with quite detailed and specific results.  I know that they found that us crewmen and other Cbt Arms who worked on Tracked Vehicles were subjected to vibrations that cause lower back degeneration, with compacted and compressed discs, etc.  I also find it quite a coincidence that all of us who did a lot of time CCing Recce vehs all seem to have lost hearing in the Left ear (Right ear kept free of headset to provide SA).  These studies have been done and well documented.  Why then does VAC not accept them, why your service records clearly document what your occupation was.

Oh!  By the way; the occupation that they found to have the greatest hearing loss was Cook.  That due to the High Pressure Steam lines in kitchens.  How many Cooks have been denied compensation due to hearing loss without a CF 98?
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