Author Topic: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )  (Read 161843 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: ACSO Career Courses
« Reply #150 on: May 11, 2017, 12:45:50 »
Are you newly-winged?  If so, look at Space Ops, Basic Electronic Warfare since they're online and can be done alongside other courses like HPMA and Flight Safety.  Some of the courses Dolphin Hunter mentioned are pretty senior stuff (Aerospace Systems Program in particular).

Also, plug away at AFOD and CAFJOD.
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Offline Cherrysu

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Re: ACSO Career Courses
« Reply #151 on: May 18, 2017, 07:43:14 »
Thanks for the help everyone. I've been killing the PD courses so far. Does anyone have any info on the TACP course? Or the JTAC... I forget which one ACSOs are eligible for.. That sounds like it might be an interesting path to take, just wondering if anyone knows first hand, knows a guy, etc.. Or at least knows how courses like that might be solicited.

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 08:41:23 by Cherrysu »

Offline Dimsum

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Re: ACSO Career Courses
« Reply #152 on: May 18, 2017, 19:33:19 »
Thanks for the help everyone. I've been killing the PD courses so far. Does anyone have any info on the TACP course? Or the JTAC... I forget which one ACSOs are eligible for.. That sounds like it might be an interesting path to take, just wondering if anyone knows first hand, knows a guy, etc.. Or at least knows how courses like that might be solicited.

Thanks

That will be after your first tour on Sqn.  I believe the JTAC course is still promulgated via message but I haven't seen any messages for those in a while.
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Offline Somethinginteresting

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ACSO question
« Reply #153 on: September 06, 2017, 07:58:49 »
Hi,
I want to enter as an air combat systems officer.
However, what if I don't qualify?  What if I fail the aptitude or screening test, what then?
Do I get booted out for good?  Do I get redirected to another trade?  How long til I can reapply for the job, if ever?
Thanks.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: ACSO question
« Reply #154 on: September 06, 2017, 08:38:21 »
Hi,
I want to enter as an air combat systems officer.
However, what if I don't qualify?  What if I fail the aptitude or screening test, what then?
Do I get booted out for good?  Do I get redirected to another trade?  How long til I can reapply for the job, if ever?
Thanks.

If you don't qualify, then you might get into your 2nd or 3rd trade choice, if you qualify for those. 
“If you run into an a-hole in the morning, you ran into an a-hole. If you run into a-holes all day, you're the a-hole.”

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Offline jollibee

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #155 on: September 06, 2017, 11:52:26 »
Hi,
I want to enter as an air combat systems officer.
However, what if I don't qualify?  What if I fail the aptitude or screening test, what then?
Do I get booted out for good?  Do I get redirected to another trade?  How long til I can reapply for the job, if ever?
Thanks.

Depending on your progress so far, you can choose other trades you qualify for (combination of your diploma/degree, CFAT, medical, vision, etc.).

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #156 on: September 08, 2017, 15:02:20 »
If its scores on one or more aspects of the CFAT, yes there are options to rewrite the CFAT later on again.  I don`t remember the specifics, it might be 3 or 6 months you have to wait.  If you aren`t successful then, you have to show prove of academic upgrading before you can write it for the 3rd and last time.

If it was a medical thing, you could rectify the issue and then be considered;  I mention this because ACSO is aircrew and has specific requirements including aircrew medicals and Aircrew Selection to consider.  I have no idea about the Aircrew selection as my trade didn`t do it when I joined the aircrew community.

So, depending on *what* it might be possibly blocking you from being selection for ACSO, yes there could be options to pause, remedy, and then again proceed with ACSO.

Info on the medical category system including the Air Factor stuff here.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-medical-occupations/cf-medical-category-system.page

CFACS stuff found here:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/training-establishments/cf-aircrew-selection-centre.page

Offline overwatch

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #157 on: December 02, 2017, 20:54:00 »
What is the role of an ACSO in terms of combat? Do ACSO's see any combat (i.e. airlift of wounded soldiers in theatre in the Chinkooks)? Also, when the CAF was in Afghanistan do the long range patrol air crew stay in an air base in the middle east?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on the ACSO's duty in combat. IIRC they fly specific air frames but none of them are combat oriented.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #158 on: December 02, 2017, 21:25:22 »
Auroras are very combat oriented.
Putting the *** in acerbic.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #159 on: December 02, 2017, 21:29:42 »
Auroras are very combat oriented.

Don’t forget about our MH brothers and sisters.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #160 on: December 02, 2017, 21:37:16 »
True.


And also, the commander of the RCAF is a real ACSO.
Putting the *** in acerbic.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #161 on: December 03, 2017, 01:36:46 »
What is the role of an ACSO in terms of combat? Do ACSO's see any combat (i.e. airlift of wounded soldiers in theatre in the Chinkooks)?

ACSOs aren't flying in the Tac Hel world that I know of.

Quote
Also, when the CAF was in Afghanistan do the long range patrol air crew stay in an air base in the middle east?

LRP aircrew stayed in the ME, but not in Afghanistan itself.  They flew from a certain location into the airspace and then returned to where they took off from. 

Similarly for OP IMPACT, LRP aircrew who operated in Iraq and Syria flew out of coalition airbase located in a different country.

Quote
I'm just trying to get a grasp on the ACSO's duty in combat. IIRC they fly specific air frames but none of them are combat oriented.

The main platforms you'll find them on are LRP (Aurora) and MH (Sea King/Cyclone).  Both of these are combat aircraft;  not in the traditional way that people associate "combat" with ground combat/army type stuff to and then could link say, a Chinook or Griffon to.

LRP and MH crews train for a variety of combat roles and tasks.  The LRP community is just winding down 3+ years of sustained overland ISR with OP IMPACT.  Prior to that the fleet was involved OP MOBILE.  Here is a link to Punching Above Its Weight:  The CP-140 Aurora Experience within TF Libeccio and OP MOBILE.  This gives a great look into some aspects of Aurora Overland operations and the authors are both ACSOs from the Aurora fleet. 

When not doing overland, there are Maritime operations;  Anti-Submarine and Anti-Surface Warfare, Surveillance, presence patrols, cooperative operations with other departments, counter-drug ops, and always the secondary SAR role.  Example, from this past summer.  http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/rescue-effort-underway-for-sailboats-in-distress-in-mid-atlantic-race-1.3452073

The Aurora, in the case of this SAR, was the key asset - it has much much better search and comms capabilities than a Herc, was able to get an accurate picture of what ships were where close to the scene and pass on info to the distressed vessels and back to the JRCC, etc.  It just has much better systems to search large areas and communicate, but lacks the ability to put SAR Techs on decks (we can drop a SKAD - survival kit air droppable).

Any of the things I've mentioned above...an ACSO is involved in.  We have 2 to 3 ACSO on a crew and they are the ones who plan, coordinate and conduct the mission.  They are knee deep in anything we do and some of our crew commanders are ASCOs.  All 3 of the COs I've had on Sqn to date were/are ACSOs, now that I think of it.

Combat doesn't just involve folks in green covered in mud or dust;  tracking the latest gen foreign subs, finding ISIS and striking them...also combat.  Do Canadian crews fly against foreign subs

 :Tin-Foil-Hat:

I've never done MH myself, but I do know from talking to those folks that with the much smaller crew, the ACSO will share some of the sensor operation duties with the AES Ops/non flying pilot because there is only 1 ACSO and 1 AES Op on each crew; I have no idea if that will continue on the Cyclone.

As a LRP ACSO you won't operate sensors, you'll have 4 AES Ops in the seats operating them for you and 1 AES Op in the back end doing all the ordinance work for you.  You're job is to take all that info/data, consider it and then plan 'the next move' ( a very simplified version of what happens). 

 :2c: from an LRP AES Op.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 02:15:11 by Eye In The Sky »

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #162 on: December 03, 2017, 17:19:23 »
EITS pretty much nailed it.  The one thing I'll add is that for the Auroras, 1 of the 2-3 does what he says (takes data and plans, etc) and the other 1 or 2 deal with communications via multiple means (HF, VHF, UHF radios, secure and unsecure means, Link, Chat in some instances, etc) as well as specific navigation requirements.
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Offline carpeboi

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #163 on: December 12, 2017, 14:08:24 »
I've got the call this morning, i'm joining as an ACSO the 15 January 2018 (french cours). I'm so excited.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #164 on: December 13, 2017, 19:00:53 »
ACSOs aren't flying in the Tac Hel world that I know of.

Confirmed.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #165 on: December 13, 2017, 23:23:02 »
EITS pretty much nailed it.  The one thing I'll add is that for the Auroras, 1 of the 2-3 does what he says (takes data and plans, etc) and the other 1 or 2 deal with communications via multiple means (HF, VHF, UHF radios, secure and unsecure means, Link, Chat in some instances, etc) as well as specific navigation requirements.

Man, it sounds a lot like what one person does in a fighter, on top of flying the aircraft!  :D

Offline Crimmsy

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #166 on: December 14, 2017, 00:13:10 »
You're not wrong Max, but what does that contribute to the conversation?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #167 on: December 14, 2017, 01:01:35 »
I think its more zoomies poking at zoomies...but, remember SSM is like most people in the CAF...they'll never see a MPA or MH 'live' and understand how much information is coming into the tac tube from comms and sensors.  We can literally detect and then have to manage...well, a lot of tracks (I can't say how many...but its more than 3 figures at the same time)...sub-surface, surface and airborne fed into the tube from RADAR, ESM, Acoustics, EO, and 2 handfuls of comms link like mentioned. 

LRP and fighters are like runners...there's different types.  Fighter are more like sprinters to me (I've gone to a shot eval during MAPLE ...what happens in seconds is amazing, actually).  LRP is more like long distance.  We're slower, but go longer and we see more along the way.  Fighters can't take on a SSBN, SSGN etc so...I get that they're a little jealous of us and have to poke fun sometimes because they can't take on the big targets, you know, the ones that are 'global killers' like a SSBN.   ;D 

Then there is the MH folks with the Cyclone...which will take in megaloads of sensor data but with even a smaller crew to manage it.   Just thinking about it makes me think "Tylenol Extra Strength". 

Also...fighter guys can transit to the battle space quicker BUT....we have a galley.  AND...a bathroom.   ;)  I don't know any fighter guys who've had ONSTA pizza and nachos.  ;)

Zoomies poking fun at other zoomies...not much different than the Zipperheads and Herbies slinging crap at each other.   :subbies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r6_mVLkThE
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:20:17 by Eye In The Sky »

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #168 on: December 14, 2017, 01:05:38 »
You're not wrong Max, but what does that contribute to the conversation?

It contributes nothing to the conversation, other than to confirm that fighter pilots are dicks, who cannot be bothered to learn about anything outside their own cockpits.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #169 on: December 14, 2017, 07:53:06 »
Man, it sounds a lot like what one person does in a fighter, on top of flying the aircraft!  :D

Man, that sounds a lot like what one civilian does in a UAV shed in Nevada, on top of going home for lunch!   :D #youareallobsolete
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Baden Guy

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #170 on: December 14, 2017, 08:45:46 »
Sorry but I can't resist putting up the oldie but a goodie.  :D

The Herc and the F-15s

A couple of F-15's are escorting a C-130 Hercules, and their pilots are chatting with the pilot of the transport to pass the time. Talk comes ‘round to the relative merits of their respective aircraft. Of course the fighter pilots contend that their airplanes were better because of their superior speed, maneuverability, weaponry, and so forth, while the putting down the Herc’s deficiencies in these areas.

After taking this for a while, the C-130 pilot says, "Oh yeah? Well, I can do a few things in this old girl that you'd only dream about." Naturally, the fighter jocks challenge him to demonstrate.

"Just watch," comes the quick retort.

And so they watch. But all they see is that C-130 continuing to fly straight and level..

After several minutes the Herc pilot comes back on the air, saying "There! How was that?"

Not having seen anything, the fighter pilots reply, "What are you talking about? What did you do?"

And the Herc pilot replies, "Well, I got up, stretched my legs, got a cup of coffee, then went back an took a leak."

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #171 on: December 14, 2017, 09:49:34 »
It contributes nothing to the conversation, other than to confirm that fighter pilots are dicks, who cannot be bothered to learn about anything outside their own cockpits.

Can't take a joke?

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #172 on: December 14, 2017, 10:44:16 »
"RCAF Trial By Combat: saying mean-spirited things until someone gives up Reports to a Mod!".... next on Spike TV.

[where's that *****-slap emoji when you need it]

      :pop:

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #173 on: December 14, 2017, 11:10:16 »
Man, that sounds a lot like what one civilian does in a UAV shed in Nevada, on top of going home for lunch!   :D #youareallobsolete

Hey, stop telling everyone my retirement plan!
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Air Combat Systems Officer ( ACSO )
« Reply #174 on: December 14, 2017, 12:14:50 »
Hey, stop telling everyone my retirement plan!

You already had a jammie go...can't you let us poor operators have a chance at happiness too?   :'(

 ;D