Author Topic: EPZ date and promotion  (Read 4831 times)

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Offline eliminator

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EPZ date and promotion
« on: December 02, 2009, 01:19:43 »
I cant get a straight answer from BOR or CM. Here's my story.

ROTP Promoted to 2Lt effective 1 May 2006 (EPZ to Lt. 1 May 2007)

Failed AEC training, new trade effective Aug 2007, new EPZ to Lt. 13 Jan 2008)

I will be complete my trades training in a few months and will be subsequently promoted to Lt

I'm told that promotion to Captain in my trade is just a time thing, so the CM thinks my promo to Captain should be effective Aug 2010, while others are telling me it should be effective Jan 2010.

I know it's not a big deal, Jan to Aug, but I'm just looking for a clear answer.  Not to mention the fact of being a fresh Capt with no Lt time really.....

Offline captloadie

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Re: EPZ date and promotion
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2009, 06:44:42 »
Having gone through the same process, I can give you my experience. All my EPZs were based off the date of the completion of my phase training. I completed Phase IV Log in Oct 00, then I was promoted to LT. I was promoted Capt in 02, the usual mandatory 2 years in rank as an LT. However, I did my phase training back to back, and there was no time awaiting training. Normally, you are only credited with the time you have awaited training, if it was considered excessive and at not fault of the member. However, when it is a COT due to failure, we aren't given much grace. You really need to consult the new regs on this, as they have changed/been reworded since my COT.

Offline blackice

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Re: EPZ date and promotion
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 16:07:09 »
Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-204-pay-policy-officers-ncms.html#sec-204-075

204.04(3) (Rate of pay on promotion) Subject to paragraphs (4) and (5), an officer or non-commissioned member shall be paid, on promotion to a higher rank, at the rate of pay established in the applicable CBI which is the greater of:

the basic rate of pay for the member's new rank and, if applicable, pay level and trade group; or

the rate of pay for the pay increment and, if applicable, pay level and trade group, for the member’s new rank that is nearest to, but at least equal to, the sum of the rate of pay the member was receiving on the day before the effective date of the promotion plus an amount equal to the rate of pay established for pay increment 1 minus pay increment Basic in the member’s new rank, but not to exceed the rate of pay for the highest pay increment in the new rank.

====================

In the policy above, is the effective date of the promotion the day before you enter the promotion zone or literally the day before you were promoted?

Example: A 2Lt entering the promotion zone 5 months ago without being promoted would see their pay increasing to PI 2 at $4774. When they are promoted 5 months later, would they go to Lt PI 3 at $5202 with their pay the day before being promoted being 2Lt PI 2 or the pay before they entered the promotion zone of 2Lt PI 1.

The math
=========

$4774 + (Lt PI 1 - Lt Basic ) = New Pay
$4774 + ($4843 - $4488) = $5129

$5129 is closest to $5202 (Lt PI 3) than $5021 (Lt PI 2).

Thank you.

Offline Old EO Tech

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Re: EPZ date and promotion
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2019, 01:26:29 »
Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-204-pay-policy-officers-ncms.html#sec-204-075

204.04(3) (Rate of pay on promotion) Subject to paragraphs (4) and (5), an officer or non-commissioned member shall be paid, on promotion to a higher rank, at the rate of pay established in the applicable CBI which is the greater of:

the basic rate of pay for the member's new rank and, if applicable, pay level and trade group; or

the rate of pay for the pay increment and, if applicable, pay level and trade group, for the member’s new rank that is nearest to, but at least equal to, the sum of the rate of pay the member was receiving on the day before the effective date of the promotion plus an amount equal to the rate of pay established for pay increment 1 minus pay increment Basic in the member’s new rank, but not to exceed the rate of pay for the highest pay increment in the new rank.

====================

In the policy above, is the effective date of the promotion the day before you enter the promotion zone or literally the day before you were promoted?

Example: A 2Lt entering the promotion zone 5 months ago without being promoted would see their pay increasing to PI 2 at $4774. When they are promoted 5 months later, would they go to Lt PI 3 at $5202 with their pay the day before being promoted being 2Lt PI 2 or the pay before they entered the promotion zone of 2Lt PI 1.

The math
=========

$4774 + (Lt PI 1 - Lt Basic ) = New Pay
$4774 + ($4843 - $4488) = $5129

$5129 is closest to $5202 (Lt PI 3) than $5021 (Lt PI 2).

Thank you.

I'm doing this scenario right now, promoted from CWO To Capt, it is the day before your actual promotion date on your message.  EPZ is just a date that allows you to be promoted with fewer conditions.  The promotion date on your promotion message is what is used to determine your rate of pay in para 2, basically you must get a full incentive on promotion, if the closest pay incentive doesn't get you the difference between Lt0 and LT1 then you are bumped to the next incentive.

Cheers

Offline secondchance

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Re: EPZ date and promotion
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 23:49:14 »
Having gone through the same process, I can give you my experience. All my EPZs were based off the date of the completion of my phase training. I completed Phase IV Log in Oct 00, then I was promoted to LT. I was promoted Capt in 02, the usual mandatory 2 years in rank as an LT. However, I did my phase training back to back, and there was no time awaiting training. Normally, you are only credited with the time you have awaited training, if it was considered excessive and at not fault of the member. However, when it is a COT due to failure, we aren't given much grace. You really need to consult the new regs on this, as they have changed/been reworded since my COT.
Your experience is  for people who didn't have VOT or COT.
You are right about 2 years being Lt .
But people with COT like me , we got new EZP in our COT message.

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