Author Topic: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy  (Read 823285 times)

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Online MarkOttawa

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2550 on: January 30, 2019, 15:57:49 »
Oldgateboatdriver:

Quote
medium/river icebreakers (type 1200) of the Coast Guard and the multi-task type 1100, not to mention by then the type 1050 and the Tully - so basically 26 more vessels, need to start being replaced NOW!

Indeed but government does not want to spend the money (either did Conservatives), plus no one dares buy abroad to get vessels quickly.

Plus:

Quote
monetize with other non-government work

 :rofl:

Mark
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2551 on: January 30, 2019, 16:19:02 »

 :rofl:

Mark
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My sentiments exactly ... but it was, allegedly, the point of the strategy.

Offline Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2552 on: January 30, 2019, 17:00:48 »
We only buy used vessels from overseas.

Online Chris Pook

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2553 on: January 31, 2019, 11:19:41 »
We only buy used vessels from overseas.

Interesting observation.

So.

Third party purchases vessel overseas and delivers it to Halifax or Esquimalt under its own power.

RCN takes delivery dockside and pays third party for delivery of a "used" vessel.

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Offline Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2554 on: January 31, 2019, 11:28:38 »
That would have been the case had the Mistral deal gone through. Likely sailed over here and then refitted with Canadian requirements.

Online Chris Pook

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2555 on: January 31, 2019, 11:31:42 »
It could equally apply to a vessel commissioned by the third party to meet Canadian requirements.  Somebody like Washington Marine Group.  Or Davie. Or FedNav. Or Irving.
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Offline LoboCanada

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2556 on: January 31, 2019, 16:14:57 »
Anyone else check out the new Seaspan NSS site? Interesting picture of the Diefenbaker:


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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2557 on: January 31, 2019, 17:00:08 »
Blackhawks would sure be a nice addition to them...

Online Chris Pook

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2558 on: January 31, 2019, 19:57:10 »
Moonpool eh?

Just the thing for launching UAVs .... and torpedoes.... and mines.
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Online MarkOttawa

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2559 on: February 18, 2019, 12:39:37 »
Looks to me as if this gov't wants to give a fourth conversion contract to Davie pretty smartly in hope of offsetting SNC-Lavalin fallout in Oct. election (our governments for years have been pathetic in planning for and funding key federal responsibilities such as CAF, CCG and RCMP--problem with last is feds not willing to make provinces pay their full freight for contract policing, not a federal role):
Quote
Canadian Coast Guard seeks input on options for procuring existing light icebreaker

News release

February 18, 2019 – Gatineau, Quebec – Public Services and Procurement Canada

Through a Request for Information issued today, the Government of Canada is seeking input from the marine industry regarding the procurement of an existing light icebreaking vessel to provide options for filling interim requirements in the Canadian Coast Guard’s delivery of icebreaking services for the St. Lawrence Seaway while others ships in the fleet undergo maintenance.

This vessel will complete the Canadian Coast Guard’s plan to add four interim icebreakers to its fleet. This past summer, the Government of Canada purchased three interim medium icebreakers, which are being converted at Chantier Davie in Levis, Quebec. The first of the three medium icebreakers, the Canadian Coast Guard Ship Captain Molly Kool, was welcomed into the Canadian Coast Guard fleet on December 14, 2018.

Industry has until April 16, 2019, to respond to the Request for Information regarding the procurement of an existing light icebreaker [emphasis added]...
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/news/2019/02/canadian-coast-guard-seeks-input-on-options-for-procuring-existing-light-icebreaker.html

Mark
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 12:43:19 by MarkOttawa »
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Online MarkOttawa

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2560 on: March 05, 2019, 15:56:16 »
Refreshingly frank piece by RADM (ret'd) Ian Mack--but I think this conclusion wrong--there are simply some things we cannot do in any remotely efficient or cost-effective way and hence should not try. But politics and "Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!":

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...Were we launching NSPS today, we could realistically hope to have done better. I have said before that Canada’s continuing prosperity can only grow through national endeavours which are exceptionally difficult by their very nature and which government must routinely nurture, if not manage. Mastery of complex endeavour leadership and execution is not a choice, it is imperative to our future as a nation [emphasis added].

The paper:

Quote
Emerging Lessons from the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy
https://www.cgai.ca/emerging_lessons_from_the_national_shipbuilding_procurement_strategy

Mark
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2561 on: March 06, 2019, 16:24:17 »
Thanks Mark, that was a good read.

I think part of the problem NSS is going through is the high turnover at the BGH level, as most of the original players from all departments are long gone, and the supporting underlings have all changed out.  There was a big loss of background knowledge and understanding of what the goals were, so it kind of lost the bubble when it was forced into the deliverology foolishness.  Mr. Mack was one of those corporate anchors, so his retirement had a big impact on a few key things drifting off into bureaucratic oblivion.

Offline Uzlu

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2562 on: March 21, 2019, 06:47:17 »
Quote
Davie, rivals square off over future of multibillion-dollar shipbuilding plan

OTTAWA — The president of Davie Shipbuilding says he is confident the Quebec-based shipyard will be tapped to build two new ferries included in this week’s federal budget.

But James Davies says it is time the federal government stop rewarding other shipyards for failing to deliver new vessels to the navy and coast guard, and officially admit his company into the multibillion-dollar national shipbuilding plan.

The comment came late Wednesday as top officials from Davie and its two bitter rivals, Vancouver-based Seaspan Shipyards and Halifax-based Irving Shipbuilding, appeared one after the other before the Senate finance committee.

Seaspan and Irving were selected through the shipbuilding strategy in 2011 as the two shipyards responsible for building what at the time was estimated to be $35 billion worth of new vessels for the navy and coast guard.

Davie also competed but was passed over and has since been forced to fight for scraps outside the plan.

That includes the provision of an interim resupply vessel for the navy and three second-hand icebreakers for the coast guard.

Davies also told the committee he did not think any other shipyard could provide the two new ferries included in the budget. They will replace two existing ferries, one of which operates between Quebec and Prince Edward Island and the other between Nova Scotia and P.E.I. The budget does not provide any further details, including cost or when they will be built.

Despite his sunny view of his company’s capability, Davies was clearly focused on getting his shipyard admitted into the national shipbuilding plan. He noted that, seven years after it was launched, both Seaspan and Irving are continuing to get work despite not having delivered a ship, and the plan’s overall costs have doubled.

“A deal with no consequence of failure is toothless,” Davies said. “Consequence means that in the light of such failure, the government needs the ability to choose an alternative supplier for future contracts.”

That includes potentially breaking up the work that, under the current arrangement, is almost entirely the purview of the other two yards, he said, and contracts not yet awarded.

Davies specifically mentioned 10 large coast guard vessels that were promised to Seaspan in 2013 at an estimated cost of $3.3 billion, but construction of which won’t realistically start until sometime in the mid- to late-2020s.

During his own appearance, Irving Shipbuilding president Kevin McCoy defended his shipyard’s work to date, telling the committee that the first of 21 vessels Irving has been tasked to build, an Arctic patrol ship for the navy, will be delivered this summer.

Progress is also being made on five others, McCoy said, as well as the navy’s new, $60-billion warship fleet, which will be built in the coming decade.

The original cost of those warships was estimated at $26.2 billion, while the first Arctic ship was initially expected in 2015, but McCoy nonetheless said there has been a lot of false information and rhetoric about the state of the plan — and of Irving.

Seaspan chief executive officer Mark Lamarre similarly said a short time later that work is advancing on the West Coast as three fisheries science vessels for the coast guard are near completion after several delays, some of which were caused by faulty welding.

Steel has also started to be cut on the first of two long-overdue resupply vessels for the navy, he said.

Lamarre admitted Seaspan has faced challenges, but he said difficulties were inevitable given that it had been a generation since the government and shipbuilding industry launched such a massive project.

Both sides have learned some hard lessons over the years that are now being applied, he added.

While they didn’t mention Davie, the Seaspan and Irving officials also both pushed back against any suggestions of opening up or otherwise changing the national shipbuilding strategy, saying a fair competition was held in 2011.

James Irving, co-chief executive officer of J.D. Irving Ltd., which owns the Halifax yard, said his company invested $450 million of its own money with the “good faith” understanding the strategy would not be changed.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/03/20/davie-rivals-square-off-over-future-of-multibillion-dollar-shipbuilding-plan/

Online Chris Pook

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2563 on: March 21, 2019, 10:48:45 »
"good faith" understanding.

"I assumed"?

"Quid pro quo"?

"Believe me"?

Real question - was the NSPS predicated on delivering the hulls defined and contracted or was it based on replacing all the hulls in the federal fleet, and increasing the number of hulls should the need arise, and replacing the replacements, now and forever, amen?

Or was that just the assumption of Irving?

Second issue - is it just me or does anyone else perceive that Seaspan is less invested in keeping Davie out of the running and that Irving seems to take the lead on the Davie file?
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Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2564 on: March 21, 2019, 11:30:27 »

Second issue - is it just me or does anyone else perceive that Seaspan is less invested in keeping Davie out of the running and that Irving seems to take the lead on the Davie file?

Seaspan gets the benefit of geography in this case.  There's no one else close to their size/ability on the West Coast. Due to our deep historical mantra of pleasing as many Provinces as possible when spending public money, this puts them in a fantastic, almost unassailable, position. 

Irving on the other hand has to deal with a geographically closer, long time rival, who has a larger capacity and comes from the undisputed King of squeaky wheels getting the grease in Canada. 

The reality is that Davie will get more contracts - its a given fact that its going to occur - its just a question of what they get.  Irving wants ALL of those 15 CSC ships and will fight a scorched earth policy to protect them.  Davie will have to be content with more CCG vessels and quite possibly the Kingston replacements because they will need to be replaced before the CSC programme is completed and before Seaspan can complete the 2 (3?) JSS, the Dief, the OSV and whatever CCG OPV's they were promised.   

Offline Uzlu

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2565 on: March 21, 2019, 11:45:18 »
Real question - was the NSPS predicated on delivering the hulls defined and contracted or was it based on replacing all the hulls in the federal fleet, and increasing the number of hulls should the need arise, and replacing the replacements, now and forever, amen?

Or was that just the assumption of Irving?

Second issue - is it just me or does anyone else perceive that Seaspan is less invested in keeping Davie out of the running and that Irving seems to take the lead on the Davie file?
Quote
The National Shipbuilding Strategy is a long-term project to renew Canada's federal fleet of combat and non-combat vessels.
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/mer-sea/sncn-nss/index-eng.html

I am assuming that this means that once all the ships that displace 1 000 tonnes or larger are replaced, new ships will be built in Canada to replace these replacements.  And I am assuming that Irving and Seaspan will again build most of these ships.  Davie hates Irving.  Irving hates Davie.

Offline Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2566 on: March 21, 2019, 13:04:43 »
So far only Seaspan/Lockheed have won an overseas military contract to refit Allied warships (NZ). the Seaspan yards out here have built a solid rep for their repair work.

Offline Baz

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2567 on: March 21, 2019, 14:33:38 »
Blackhawks would sure be a nice addition to them...

Being pedantic, given the paint scheme it is technically a MH-60T Jayhawk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_MH-60_Jayhawk.

Offline Spencer100

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2568 on: March 25, 2019, 08:29:07 »
[urlhttps://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canadian-coast-guards-newest-vessel-damaged-after-running-into-victoria-port/ar-BBVaVUH?ocid=spartanntp][/url]

Not even handed over and it has to go back to the body shop. lol

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2569 on: March 25, 2019, 15:05:47 »
From the Times Colonist

Team to probe crash of Coast Guard ship at Ogden Point

https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/team-to-probe-crash-of-coast-guard-ship-at-ogden-point-1.23769090

Looks like the trials team got a bit excited coming alongside at the end of a week of sea trials and ran into the jetty while backing up.

Good thing this is still fully in Seaspan's control (so they are responsible for all repairs) but for damage to the stern, rudder and propellor that may require a quick docking to fix.   :facepalm:

Offline Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2570 on: March 25, 2019, 15:55:41 »
With a tug in support as well,unless a mechanical issue, then someone has some career management issues ahead.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2571 on: March 25, 2019, 18:43:02 »
You just know you are in Victoria when they feel the need to tell us that "bird nesting boxes" were damaged in the collision but "no bird were using them" at the time.

 ;D

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2572 on: March 25, 2019, 19:29:46 »
To be fair, that's probably because the only birds in Halifax this time of year are the seagulls swimming around by the harbour sewage outflow pipe.  ;D

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2573 on: March 25, 2019, 20:45:09 »
Ahh yes, the perpetual flame retardant crap birds of Halifax. FML, they can ruin a uniform.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy
« Reply #2574 on: March 26, 2019, 01:08:42 »
Heard a rumour elsewhere that it was run by a third party, and everyone onboard has been let go, including the cook.