Author Topic: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?  (Read 295971 times)

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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #675 on: June 23, 2020, 16:02:24 »
For the full experience, it should be rejected out of hand on the first submission, regardless of merit.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #676 on: June 23, 2020, 16:15:00 »
That kind of negativity we can do without around here, mister.

I'll drink to that!  :cheers:
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline Furniture

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #677 on: June 23, 2020, 18:41:11 »
Wtf.  Was it due to lack of medals or because some dinosaur didn't think women should be in the Navy?

A dinosaur that didn't believe women are in "real" navy trades... Worst part is the guy was former air force.

Offline stoker dave

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #678 on: June 24, 2020, 07:21:23 »
There is soul searching going on within the Legion at high levels, and there's a group of modern vets trying to work in parallel to get some modernization happening, but it may need a real shock to the system to happen.

That is useful information.  Can you expand?  Who are these people?  Can you share contact info?  Are they receptive to feedback and input?  Are they aware of this discussion?   It seems like an opportune time to speak up.  Thank you. 


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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #679 on: June 24, 2020, 08:58:42 »
The problem as I have experienced it is that many of the small town branches only view themselves as the local watering hole, with some occasional costume wearing thrown in. I have been made feel  more welcome in small town pubs than in almost any Legion branch I have ever been to. My girlfriend and I got stared at on Remembrance Day one year in Charlottetown, while my girlfriend was asked aggressive questions about how "sailor" she really is. Of all days to make uniformed CAF members feel unwelcome, that had to be the strangest... 

If communities need/want a social club for gathering, knitting, meat draws, etc. they should establish one, or bring in one of the many other service clubs that do the same thing. The RCL is supposed to be veterans supporting veterans.

The Legion is very good at "gate keeping" (as is PEI interestingly enough).  They are an inherently conservative organization and extremely resistant to change.  God forbid you try to enter one as a currently serving member with a Turban or other religious head covering.  Gasp!  The scandal!

Quote
Wtf.  Was it due to lack of medals or because some dinosaur didn't think women should be in the Navy?

No, no.  We use the colour/lack of an anchor to discriminate who the "real sailors" are in the RCN now.   ::)

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #680 on: June 24, 2020, 09:34:53 »
No, no.  We use the colour/lack of an anchor to discriminate who the "real sailors" are in the RCN now.   ::)

That's absurd.

You can tell real sailors because they're clean shaven.  Bearded sailors are the ones who are in shore billets - the better the beard, the longer since they've been to sea, so the more suspect they are.  :stirpot:
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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #681 on: June 24, 2020, 10:21:38 »
That's absurd.

You can tell real sailors because they're clean shaven.  Bearded sailors are the ones who are in shore billets - the better the beard, the longer since they've been to sea, so the more suspect they are.  :stirpot:

 :rofl:

That is some glorious reverse psychology and I love it.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #682 on: June 24, 2020, 11:57:37 »
Not enough "bearded-ladies" to account for the feminine side of the house.  ;D

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #683 on: June 24, 2020, 12:54:33 »
Not enough "bearded-ladies" to account for the feminine side of the house.  ;D

Well it brings the entire topic full circle. All women are amazing sailors by default because of their lack of a beard. What was that airforce vet thinking!

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #684 on: June 24, 2020, 13:06:20 »
A dinosaur that didn't believe women are in "real" navy trades... Worst part is the guy was former air force.

I was once witness to a timely and appropriate response delivered to a similar insult.

Among other things it involved the deployment of the two sacred words, well understood by those of the military culture: '**** O** :)

“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline ArmyRick

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #685 on: June 26, 2020, 06:14:54 »
Not to add fuel to this fire but what the heck.

Several remembrance days ago (it took me 23 trys to spell remembrance correctly, go infantry!) I was at a local ceremony. Won't say which town to avoid embarrassment. The local legion (about 20-25 strong) marched and all the local people clapped and said thanks for your service. Most or all of those marching were wearing "right side" medals (and knowing many personally never served a day in the military)
Meanwhile, myself and many other CF members stood on the side watching in DEU with our Bosnia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Cyprus, etc. (No, I haven't been to all this places, just looking around its what I saw, I have only served three tours Bosnia) medals on our "left side".  The public barely noticed us and even asked a few of us to step aside to better see the parade. Ironic. Truth is myself and a RCR sergeant looked at each other and shook our heads. Ironic.

Sad part is, its so Canada. They see something and totally misinterpret it. At that particular legion, serving members drank in one area (nearby base provides plenty of fresh faces for a mandatory parade) and the social club drinks elsewhere. Never the two shall meet.

Anybody else seeing similar things? Or is it just me?
M'eh

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #686 on: June 26, 2020, 07:43:32 »
Not to add fuel to this fire but what the heck.

Several remembrance days ago (it took me 23 trys to spell remembrance correctly, go infantry!) I was at a local ceremony. Won't say which town to avoid embarrassment. The local legion (about 20-25 strong) marched and all the local people clapped and said thanks for your service. Most or all of those marching were wearing "right side" medals (and knowing many personally never served a day in the military)
Meanwhile, myself and many other CF members stood on the side watching in DEU with our Bosnia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Cyprus, etc. (No, I haven't been to all this places, just looking around its what I saw, I have only served three tours Bosnia) medals on our "left side".  The public barely noticed us and even asked a few of us to step aside to better see the parade. Ironic. Truth is myself and a RCR sergeant looked at each other and shook our heads. Ironic.

Sad part is, its so Canada. They see something and totally misinterpret it. At that particular legion, serving members drank in one area (nearby base provides plenty of fresh faces for a mandatory parade) and the social club drinks elsewhere. Never the two shall meet.

Anybody else seeing similar things? Or is it just me?

I've heard such tales, and seen the opposite as well.

I was out in Coquitlam, BC for the whole month of November to attend to the aftermath of the death of a family member. Knowing I would be missing the 11th in Ottawa, I brought my medals with me with the intent of quietly attending whatever small local service I could find. I made my way to the school where the thing was kicking off, and quickly got muckled onto by a local Legion member who saw my gongs and very courteously steered me towards the 'veterans' seating at the front of the school gym for the indoor service. After that, they moved everyone outside and again those of us with service were chivvied to the front section of the small parade they held to the cenotaph where they then finished the ceremony. I was very pleasantly surprised at how many people from the public turned up for the service as well. It was quite well done. The Legion afterwards was very well attended.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Baden Guy

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #687 on: June 26, 2020, 08:27:00 »
Army Rick, when I started reading your comment I had to double-check that it wasn't my name at the top. :)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 11:47:12 by Baden Guy »

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #688 on: June 26, 2020, 08:50:21 »
Not to add fuel to this fire but what the heck.

Several remembrance days ago (it took me 23 trys to spell remembrance correctly, go infantry!) I was at a local ceremony. Won't say which town to avoid embarrassment. The local legion (about 20-25 strong) marched and all the local people clapped and said thanks for your service. Most or all of those marching were wearing "right side" medals (and knowing many personally never served a day in the military)
Meanwhile, myself and many other CF members stood on the side watching in DEU with our Bosnia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Cyprus, etc. (No, I haven't been to all this places, just looking around its what I saw, I have only served three tours Bosnia) medals on our "left side".  The public barely noticed us and even asked a few of us to step aside to better see the parade. Ironic. Truth is myself and a RCR sergeant looked at each other and shook our heads. Ironic.

Sad part is, its so Canada. They see something and totally misinterpret it. At that particular legion, serving members drank in one area (nearby base provides plenty of fresh faces for a mandatory parade) and the social club drinks elsewhere. Never the two shall meet.

Anybody else seeing similar things? Or is it just me?

Generally, for that sort of stuff my local legion is quite good.  As are the local air cadets.  There a quite a few "woulda, shoulds, coulda's" in that legion and are a bit to excited to talk to a currently serving member.  But I'm also a loudmouth and inject myself into card games and like drinking with strangers so there's that...

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #689 on: June 26, 2020, 08:57:44 »
(it took me 23 trys to spell remembrance correctly, go infantry!)

And in those 23 tries, you didn't bother to check the spelling of "trys"   ;)
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #690 on: June 26, 2020, 09:52:56 »
And in those 23 tries, you didn't bother to check the spelling of "trys"   ;)

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #691 on: June 26, 2020, 11:31:07 »
Red crayons are the tastiest.

Luckily, there's an MRE menu for that :)
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #692 on: July 09, 2020, 11:46:35 »
Six hundred twenty five legions are suing their insurers.  A class action alleges that the insurer claims a pandemic is not an outbreak; the class action is seeking an estimated $20M.

Story: https://london.ctvnews.ca/625-legions-sue-insurer-for-20m-contending-they-have-been-left-in-dire-straits-1.5000047

Video: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1985930&playlistId=1.4482008&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=ossT3FI
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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #693 on: July 09, 2020, 12:02:16 »
Six hundred twenty five legions are suing their insurers.  A class action alleges that the insurer claims a pandemic is not an outbreak; the class action is seeking an estimated $20M.

Story: https://london.ctvnews.ca/625-legions-sue-insurer-for-20m-contending-they-have-been-left-in-dire-straits-1.5000047

Video: https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1985930&playlistId=1.4482008&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=ossT3FI

“A pandemic is not an outbreak”... I didn’t know Carleton offered law degrees now.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #694 on: July 09, 2020, 12:04:08 »
“A pandemic is not an outbreak”... I didn’t know Carleton offered law degrees now.

https://carleton.ca/law/
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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #695 on: July 09, 2020, 12:30:32 »
https://carleton.ca/law/

I meant one that gets you in a court room, not a BA.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #696 on: July 09, 2020, 12:35:36 »
I meant one that gets you in a court room, not a BA.

I'll have you know that many, many Carleton BAs wind up in a court room.  And they get to speak there, too.

"I plead not guilty."
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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #697 on: July 09, 2020, 12:40:22 »
I'll have you know that many, many Carleton BAs wind up in a court room.  And they get to speak there, too.

"I plead not guilty."

LOL, I've probably accounted for one or two of them.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #698 on: July 12, 2020, 14:40:31 »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/woman-donates-collection-to-legion-covid19-1.5646391


 
Collection estimated to be worth $250,000, says Madonna Porter
Heather Gillis · CBC News · Posted: Jul 11, 2020 4:00 PM NT | Last Updated: July 11


There's a trove of antiques and collectibles in an unassuming building at the back of Madonna Porter's Conception Bay South home.
The treasures in her personal museum include 500 Barbie dolls, countless tea pots, china plates, cameras and other collectibles.

There's an antique Zenith floor model radio hidden behind milk crates of books, and even a picture of Queen Elizabeth during her 1978 visit to the province, sitting with then St. John's Mayor Dorothy Wyatt.
On Saturday, she donated all of it to the Royal Canadian Legion Branch 1.
"I had a lot of happy days in my life, but I can say this is the happiest," said Porter, who started collecting about 15 years ago.


Madonna Porter has been collecting for about 15 years. Saturday, she donated 500 barbie dolls, tea pots, and other items to the Royal Canadian Legion. (Heather Gillis/CBC)
Porter, 70, said she started collecting to help cancer survivors, because her daughter died from cancer at age 43.
But now she's getting older, and said she's starting to get sick herself. The collection is too much for her to move alone, and she doesn't know how to use a computer to sell her valuables online.
So she decided to donate her collection.
She said heard on the news that Royal Canadian Legion branches in the province were struggling to keep their doors open, so she called Branch 1 in St. John's.
"And I said, 'Oh my God, he probably won't take me seriously, who got 500 Barbie dolls?'" said Porter.

Executives from the legion's branch visited Porter the next day.
"I don't think they knew what to say," adding she loves to see the expression on people's faces when they first see her collection.
Porter said an antique dealer estimates her collection is worth about $250,000.
People have approached Porter in the past about buying some of her items, but she wasn't ready to sell.
"I wouldn't give you the hair off a Barbie doll over there, right?" laughed Porter.


A vintage floor model radio is hidden behind milk crates full of books in a shed on Madonna Porter's property in Conception Bay South. (Heather Gillis/CBC)
Greg Grenning, president of Branch 1, says the donation will be a big help to the Legion.
"We're just struggling, right now, to keep our doors open," he said.
Grenning said the Legion relies on gatherings like weddings, dances and other social events to make money, which are limited now because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
"This gesture has been fantastic, and whatever money we can raise will go toward our operating," he said.
Grenning said they will also start an annual scholarship or bursary honouring Porter and her daughter.
But for now, legion members will spend their time carefully packing Porter's collection into boxes, and numbering and itemizing each piece.
Grenning said they will auction items on sites like eBay.

"There's a lot of collectors out there who would like to have some of this stuff," said Grenning.
"Whether we get $10,000 or we get $100,000, it's all it's something we don't have right now.… Whatever money we do get, it's so much appreciated, and [we] can't thank her enough for what she's doing."
While Porter finds it stressful to give away her collection, she said it was meant to be.
"I prayed to God to bring someone to me so it could make my dream come true."
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Re: Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?
« Reply #699 on: September 15, 2020, 19:30:45 »
Sigh; well done RCL. Sure there is more to the story, and he may have been in the wrong, but kicking a WW2 vet and former branch president out of the legion without giving him any details why or letting him tell his side of the story is pretty shady and cowardly. What a gong show.

Quote
'My honour has been shredded': 94-year-old Vancouver vet fights legion expulsion

Royal Canadian Legion won't say why Ralph Jackson was ousted for 'theft or misappropriation' of funds

At 16, Ralph Jackson signed up to fight during the Second World War. Now, at 94, he's fighting for his dignity.

Jackson says he's been expelled from the Vancouver branch of the Royal Canadian Legion, where he was once president, for alleged "theft or misappropriation of legion funds." He says he never got his day in court and still doesn't know the details of his alleged crimes.

"I did nothing wrong. I never stole a penny. I would have liked to have known what money I did steal," says Jackson. "It's like condemning someone out of hand. You just come up with something and say, 'You're a thief.'"

While Jackson was ousted under legion bylaws, criminal charges were never laid.

After a two-and-a-half-year battle to have provincial and national legion headquarters review his case, Jackson is going public in a bid to finally clear his name.

"Before I die, I want that done. I would die gladly with a clean name ... that's what I want for my children to know, that I've been cleared of this," says Jackson. "My honour has been shredded."..

[more at link]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-vet-fights-legion-expulsion-1.5724096