Author Topic: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017  (Read 229697 times)

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Offline BinRat55

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 16:05:49 »
Seriously?

Honestly, don't waste your time "hunting" for relevant policy and regulation on this subject. If your unit CO needs you in the field, you will be in the field. If you are looking for ways to get out of going to the field, maybe the military life is not for you. If you are looking for ways to get into the field and are being told this... story... I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, I have served in Afghanistan with reservists who never even had a QL3 under their belt, let alone a BMQ(L)... I would consider that a little more, shall we say substantial, than overnight in the field...
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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 16:18:07 »
I have served in Afghanistan with reservists who never even had a QL3 under their belt, let alone a BMQ(L)..

You served with pers in Afghanistan who weren't trade qualified? 


As for the staying in the field without BMQ-Land;  I know Reg Force pers who were BMQ and QL3 qualified but didn't have SQ (this was a few years ago) and they had no employment limitations(they could go into the field without issue, etc).

Offline Danjanou

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2013, 16:27:29 »
Change from the old days when a conversation on a Friday night at the armouries went like this:

"You new guy.... you sworn in?"

"Yes Warrant"

"Right then go draw rucksack,  sleeping bag and other stuff you'll need (FN, EIS) from the CQMS and get on that truck outside, ya got 5 minutes.... move."

Yes Warrant."

Mind I to would be interested in hearing details on the "I'm not qualified so send me to a war zone"  there Binrat.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 08:49:55 by Danjanou »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2013, 16:48:21 »
Seriously?

Honestly, don't waste your time "hunting" for relevant policy and regulation on this subject. If your unit CO needs you in the field, you will be in the field. If you are looking for ways to get out of going to the field, maybe the military life is not for you. If you are looking for ways to get into the field and are being told this... story... I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, I have served in Afghanistan with reservists who never even had a QL3 under their belt, let alone a BMQ(L)... I would consider that a little more, shall we say substantial, than overnight in the field...

When I taught on a reserve BMQ(L) there were very specific criteria when a recruit could stay over night on exercise and where they were allowed to sleep, depending on their level of training.  Hardshacks > range building or mod tent > hoochie. I lost a battle trying to get non BMQ recruits out to the field over night to act as GD.


I'm also a little confused who you worked with from the reserves who were untrained recruits fresh off the street?
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Offline Towards_the_gap

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2013, 16:53:42 »
When I taught on a reserve BMQ(L) there were very specific criteria when a recruit could stay over night on exercise and where they were allowed to sleep, depending on their level of training.  Hardshacks > range building or mod tent > hoochie. I lost a battle trying to get non BMQ recruits out to the field over night to act as GD.


I'm also a little confused who you worked with from the reserves who were untrained recruits fresh off the street?

I too am curious as to how a non-QL3 deployed to Afghanistan. How did they get CFTPO'd, and what numbskull allowed it to happen? Imagine the storm of fecal matter should something have happened to this recruit??????

Offline PanaEng

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2013, 17:14:34 »
I've hear that at my unit many times but have yet to see a proper or clear ref supporting it.
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Cubs, ages 8-12 can sleep outdoors supervised;
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Offline jwtg

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2013, 17:16:39 »
I know very little about reserve training...but on Reg Force BMQ....candidates sleep outside in hoochies.  Is this not the same on Reserve BMQ?
EDIT to add: I guess my point is that it can be done DURING BMQ, but not after?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 17:19:56 by jwtg »

Offline dapaterson

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2013, 17:43:31 »
It's not just a question of "sleeping in the field" but also of the associated camp routines, weapons handling, etc, etc that individuals do not know.  And an FTX is different from a course where it's known that all are candidates.

I will try to find the ref over the next few days - no guarantees, though.
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Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2013, 18:07:29 »
Seriously?

Honestly, don't waste your time "hunting" for relevant policy and regulation on this subject. If your unit CO needs you in the field, you will be in the field. If you are looking for ways to get out of going to the field, maybe the military life is not for you. If you are looking for ways to get into the field and are being told this... story... I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, I have served in Afghanistan with reservists who never even had a QL3 under their belt, let alone a BMQ(L)... I would consider that a little more, shall we say substantial, than overnight in the field...

It sounds like the OP is trying to find the relevant policy so they can go to the field not avoiding it. In my unit I know people have been denied going on field ex's due to not having a BMQ-L even when they have their trades course. It would be a good thing to know if this is a actual policy or something someone made up has stuck.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2013, 18:09:33 »
Considering up until the mid 2000s, RegF 291ers weren't required to do SQ and were still allowed to go to the field.

I've only ever heard of pers not going to the field when its a winter ex and they don't have Winter Indoc or Winter Warfare.

Offline Ostrozac

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2013, 18:19:37 »
You served with pers in Afghanistan who weren't trade qualified? 


<< Off topic >>

I know three pers who served in Afghanistan while not trade qualified. All officers.

Two were from the ranks, one was an occupational transfer, and all three were looking at long (year+) waits to do their initial qualification courses. So the system put them to work in Kandahar doing jobs that they were capable of doing, even though they were technically untrained in their present MOSID.

Offline Hunter

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2013, 18:42:10 »
Seriously?

Honestly, don't waste your time "hunting" for relevant policy and regulation on this subject. If your unit CO needs you in the field, you will be in the field. If you are looking for ways to get out of going to the field, maybe the military life is not for you. If you are looking for ways to get into the field and are being told this... story... I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt, I have served in Afghanistan with reservists who never even had a QL3 under their belt, let alone a BMQ(L)... I would consider that a little more, shall we say substantial, than overnight in the field...

I'm not asking for me. In my 11 years I've been to the field many times.  I like going to the field.  I've also been to Afghanistan; I'm calling shenanigans on your claim that you "...served in Afghanistan with reservists who never even had a QL3 under their belt...".  And FWIW before you take a run at someone, perhaps you should figure out who your target is.   But all the same thanks for your feedback.  It is duly noted.

Eaglelord17 - my thoughts exactly.   I am asking the question because I want to find a way for some of our new guys to have more participation in an upcoming unit exercise.  Some highers at my unit are adamant that this is a set-in-stone policy (somewhere), but I have not been able to find anything in writing one way or the other.  If anyone knows of any kind of reference on this issue it would be much appreciated.
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Offline Shamrock

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2013, 19:39:17 »
Perhaps it is your highers who have set this policy.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2013, 20:16:42 »
IIRC, you can go to the field, but under max supervision. You are also only allowed to do, or participate in, those tasks for which you've been trained.

i.e. - if you haven't had weapons training, comms and challenge procedure, you cannot do sentry. However, if you've had camp and fire procedures you can do fire piquet.

There was a standing policy in 31 BG at one time, I don't know if it still exists. Been awhile.
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Offline Towards_the_gap

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2013, 20:38:30 »
<< Off topic >>

I know three pers who served in Afghanistan while not trade qualified. All officers.

Two were from the ranks, one was an occupational transfer, and all three were looking at long (year+) waits to do their initial qualification courses. So the system put them to work in Kandahar doing jobs that they were capable of doing, even though they were technically untrained in their present MOSID.

Further de-rail...

An officer who is not fully trained to DP1 status is not quite the same as a non-QL3, reservist being deployed.

I'm still waiting for the explanation on that one.

Offline Robert0288

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2013, 02:17:31 »
I know very little about reserve training...but on Reg Force BMQ....candidates sleep outside in hoochies.  Is this not the same on Reserve BMQ?
EDIT to add: I guess my point is that it can be done DURING BMQ, but not after?

Res BMQ is condensed, as such there is no field portion.

It sounds like the OP is trying to find the relevant policy so they can go to the field not avoiding it. In my unit I know people have been denied going on field ex's due to not having a BMQ-L even when they have their trades course. It would be a good thing to know if this is a actual policy or something someone made up has stuck.

If you don't mind me asking, what trade?  I know clerks, vtechs, wepons techs, ints etc... all of whom could not get loaded onto anything other than a drivers crse without BMQ(L)

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2013, 02:28:49 »
Res BMQ is condensed, as such there is no field portion.
There is a field portion now.
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Offline Gannet

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2013, 07:01:03 »
There is a field portion now.

Just finished this, and it allows me to attend exercises in the field. Before that, no go.

ETA as in staying in tents/hoochie.  No problems for the ones where we were sleeping in shacks.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 07:03:51 by Messorius »

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2013, 07:41:13 »
I know prior to the PRes BMQ rewrites (BMQ Common and BMQ LAND) there was a directive from some General which stated those staying in the field had to be SQ qualified or higher...

When I did the QS for the new PRes BMQ Common LFDTS was looking into getting this directive rescinded....
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Offline Hunter

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2013, 08:01:43 »
Shamrock I suspect that you are right, and someone along the line once asked 'should non-BMB(L) qualified personnel be allowed to stay overnight in the field, and that was interpreted by someone else as 'our non-BMQ(L) qualified pers won't be staying overnight in the field', which in turn morphed into 'the stack of canforgens a foot high detailling the reasons why non-BMQ(L) qualified members are not authorized to do overnight field training but I just don't have them at my fingertips at this moment'.

Robert0288 the trade is medical assistant, and the exercise in question is a non-tactical medical training exercise. No pyro, no ammo, but sleeping in hooches. 

NFLD Sapper that's what I'm told by some higher in my unit, but nobody ever seems to be able to remember anything about the details of the directive which would provide some insight into where to actually find it or who set this policy.
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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2013, 08:09:11 »
Like I said with the new BMQ Common the major change was the return of field training so not taking BMQ qual'd pers to the field should now be a mute point...

Again I have not seen the new TP so I don't know if they followed our thinking on the QS.....
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2013, 08:55:04 »
It's funny that Scouts and Cadets can sleep in the field but adults can't.

I never did manage to track down actual proof of this elusive order my course WO told us about, I bet he never seen an actual reference either.  One of the many ghost orders probably.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2013, 09:06:52 »
For Land Forces Central Area, policy is LFCAD 2-2-005: FIELD EMPLOYMENT OF PARTIALLY TRAINED SOLDIERS

It refers to a document I have not been able to dig up, 4985-1 (DAT 5-5-3) dated 12 April 2002.


http://lfca-jtfc.kingston.mil.ca/LFCA-JTFCHQ/Shared%20Documents/080714-UN-LFCA%20JTFC%20HQ-LFCAD%202-2-005-FIELD%20EMP%20OF%20PARTIALLY%20TRAINED%20SOLDIERS.doc

Quote
6.   Soldiers qualified BMQ only and officers qualified BOTP only will NOT take part in Live Fire Collective Training as participants.  These soldiers may be employed in the field in non-training / non-tactical activities such as general duties, field kitchen or duty personnel so that others may be free to participate in training.  They can also be employed as civilian role players in a FSO scenario and/or similar duties under the following conditions:

a.   The soldiers must be supervised by a minimum of one Sergeant or above for every ten untrained soldiers;

b.   Strict measures are taken to ensure that their participation does not endanger themselves or others;

c.   They are not to be provided with functional weapons; and

d.   They are housed under suitable accommodations to allow for sufficient sleep and shelter from the elements.
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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2013, 09:11:46 »
The words "adult daycare" come to mind. 
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: BMQ Reserves 2010 - 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2013, 09:18:01 »
The words "Fieldcraft isn't taught until BMQ-L (SQ) and therefore you would be creating a situation of potential risk to themselves and others" comes to mind.

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