Author Topic: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment  (Read 48414 times)

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Offline Petamocto

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2010, 13:54:40 »
...That was something neat to see.

That's one word for it!
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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2010, 14:44:01 »

This is the origin of traditions.
No, that's just conditioned response.  Traditions are handed on, explained and cherished.
So, there I was....

Offline Shamrock

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2010, 15:24:34 »
No, that's just conditioned response.  Traditions are handed on, explained and cherished.

I was more just thinking that the above was a metaphor of why people come to army.ca but eventually stop posting.

Offline medicineman

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2010, 15:49:43 »
That's one word for it!

I've mellowed and matured in the last 20 odd years - my original thoughts were far from politically correct...or polite.

MM
MM

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Offline NinerSix

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2010, 15:49:49 »
Meh.

Here in BC where in Richmond the majority are Chinese and in Surrey where there are a lot of East Indians/Sikh's I could see some "Ethnic" units being formed up. Hell, there is an argument to be made that 12 SVC Bn/Coy is already an ethnically Chinese unit.

I would be more than happy to join a Sikh infantry unit.
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Offline Crane Driver

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2010, 15:55:39 »
Okay how about just getting rid of 3000 head office personnel and using those funds to get appropriate resource. shttp://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/grin.gif
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2010, 16:20:35 »
Okay how about just getting rid of 3000 head office personnel and using those funds to get appropriate resource. shttp://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/grin.gif

You know you've got 2 posts, and both take a shot at the puzzle palace workers. Obviously you have a bone to pick with the high numbers of staff people in Ottawa, so why not just start that topic, instead of throwing up a random post about Kilted RegF Infantry units to cover shots at NDHQ.

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2010, 16:26:50 »
Okay how about just getting rid of 3000 head office personnel and using those funds to get appropriate resource. shttp://forums.army.ca/forums/Smileys/Armyca/grin.gif
Massive cuts to NDHQ and to the commands always sounds good on paper. The rub is who, or rather what functions, do you chop? Engineering, procurement, pay and pensions, force development, career management, how about intelligence or the loggies that try to keep ahead of the requirements or maybe the medical and dental staffs? A modern military force has a lot of complext functions that require people and there isn't a lot of wiggle room. There is fat and duplication, but bureaucracies have a survival instinct and a life of their own. A ten percent cut would just play havoc with orderly rooms and junior desk officers while the empires would still sail happily along. Even if the dotcoms were to be chopped, a step that might be nearer than we think, most of the positions would just migrate to another organization chart.

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2010, 16:43:42 »
Better yet, just join a Reserve Highland Regiment.  We have three ethnically challenged regiments in the Reg Force Infantry already - we don't need a fourth. 

For the rest of you who are wondering WTF??? - R22eR: Largely Francophone; PPCLI: Largely Redneck ( ;) ); The RCR : a preponderance of Newfoundlanders and Maritimers which makes it difficult to communicate with either of the other 2 regiments (and their supporting units if they aren't from the areas aforementioned). 

On a (slightly) more serious note, I think the last thing we need, just based solely on Celtic Heritage, is another unit of overly hard drinking, incomprehensible and silly dressed soldiers running around loose.  You MIGHT be able to make a case that 2RCR, being that they actually have a pipe band to carry on the tradition of their Black Watch lineage, could be kilted up...but why bother.  There are couple of threads here about how necessary is it to change our Army uniforms YET AGAIN.  If you think that we need to get rid of 3000 staff geeks in Ottawa, that's one thing...but doing it just to accomodate your pining for gluteal and scrotal air conditioning when dressed up?  I think you need a better reason for that.  And I can think of a lot better things to spend money on that's saved by cutting back on NDHQ or other HQ staffers...realistic levels of practice ammo for people to keep shooting skills up for one, or more SATS equipment for the same, better training opportunities outside of High Readiness units, etc.  If you want to wear a kilt, find out what clans you have affiliations with, save up and buy a nice kilt with highland tux outfit.

Rant over.

MM
MM

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I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2010, 17:48:03 »
I was covering the parade where the Calgary Highlanders and King's Own Calgary Regt each received new Queen's Colours/Guidons...the subaltern that received the Colour for the Highlanders was a Sikh, in his kilt, with his rifle green turban on his head.  That was something neat to see.

MM

As an ex-Cal Highr I was in attendance that day.  I was thought the turban and the beard looked a fair match for the kilt.


And beside, as I remember being informed at the time, that subby had more time-in on two way ranges than anybody else on that field.  He previously served in the Indian Army.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2010, 17:57:36 »
Amended to better reflect the topic.

Blackadder, I was almost in tears laughing at that. Thanks. :D
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Offline Task

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2010, 19:04:46 »
I would like to see reserve Coy's if not Reg'ts populated with Canadian descendants of current/potential conflict areas.

1) Afghanistan
2) African
3) Chinese
4) South American

Imagine what Coy of CANADIAN CULTURED Afghani's could accomplish winning the hearts and minds over there.
How about the effect on the OMLT. Being Canada we have the (one of) largest potential resources to exact our interests.



Offline Brutus

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2010, 19:09:33 »
I would like to see reserve Coy's if not Reg'ts populated with Canadian descendants of current/potential conflict areas.

1) Afghanistan
2) African
3) Chinese
4) South American

Imagine what Coy of CANADIAN CULTURED Afghani's could accomplish winning the hearts and minds over there.
How about the effect on the OMLT. Being Canada we have the (one of) largest potential resources to exact our interests.

Are you proposing a segregated military? I know this is not your intent, but that's what it amounts to.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2010, 19:25:20 »
Imagine what Coy of CANADIAN CULTURED Afghani's could accomplish winning the hearts and minds over there.
How about the effect on the OMLT. Being Canada we have the (one of) largest potential resources to exact our interests.

If we form it for that particular reason, what do we do with it after CF involvement in Afghanistan ends?

(Or any other such unit formed because of a CF role in a particular region.)

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2010, 19:30:46 »
Having a military unit established for *you* and *your people* puts the idea of joining into one's head, kind of a 'foot in the door' if you will for recruiters. Even when the units aren't strictly segregated, and there's no guarantee of being posted to that unit, it still provides the notion that there is a place for you in the military, that you are wanted somewhere.
Yeah, good idea.  After all, they would be better off with *their own kind* instead of mixing with the rest of us Canadians, right?

Oh, wait, I thought the CF was established for *us*, as in all Canadians.

Are you proposing a segregated military? I know this is not your intent, but that's what it amounts to.
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2010, 19:36:39 »
2nd Bns all kilted? How ridiculous.

Make it the 3rd Bns.  I look forward to the kilted para companies, particularly jumping in for an arctic SovEx.

Done, already: see here, 3rd paragraph.
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Offline Task

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2010, 20:06:42 »
If we form it for that particular reason, what do we do with it after CF involvement in Afghanistan ends?

(Or any other such unit formed because of a CF role in a particular region.)

Good question. If it were a Coy size it should be easy enough to absorb in other near by units. Reg't size a tad more difficult. I honestly have not thought about it that hard. It was more of a fleeting thought after seeing the topic.

Are you proposing a segregated military? I know this is not your intent, but that's what it amounts to.

We are already segregated ask a PPCLI what he thinks of an RCR. Segregation is a tool used to build esprit du corps and part of human nature. So is used properly as the military generally does it is very effective.

Yeah, good idea.  After all, they would be better off with *their own kind* instead of mixing with the rest of us Canadians, right?


Do you think that way now when you look at a member of non-Eurpean decent? I wouldn't think so. My point is the CF is predominantly white male but you don't think of yourself in terms of 'us or them' (barring Regimental affiliations) you think of us all as Canadian soldiers.


Before this gets too carried away please realize this was just a thought I had.  I am not trying to elevate anyones blood pressure but I open for discussion.

I want to win whatever we do and I believe we are not using one of our Canadas resources.

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2010, 20:10:15 »
For the rest of you who are wondering WTF??? - R22eR: Largely Francophone; PPCLI: Largely Redneck ( ;) ); The RCR : a preponderance of Newfoundlanders and Maritimers which makes it difficult to communicate with either of the other 2 regiments (and their supporting units if they aren't from the areas aforementioned). 

Then perhaps we should change the dress ethnically based on those criteria? Dress uniform with cow-boy hat and jeans for the PPCLI, large yellow rubber sou' westers for the RCR to match their scarlets, and.... well I don't know what sort of clothes is stereotypical in Quebec, perhaps they could just carry a slice of meat pie on parade?

Offline Brutus

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2010, 20:19:40 »
Good question. If it were a Coy size it should be easy enough to absorb in other near by units. Reg't size a tad more difficult. I honestly have not thought about it that hard. It was more of a fleeting thought after seeing the topic.

We are already segregated ask a PPCLI what he thinks of an RCR. Segregation is a tool used to build esprit du corps and part of human nature. So is used properly as the military generally does it is very effective.

Do you think that way now when you look at a member of non-Eurpean decent? I wouldn't think so. My point is the CF is predominantly white male but you don't think of yourself in terms of 'us or them' (barring Regimental affiliations) you think of us all as Canadian soldiers.


Before this gets too carried away please realize this was just a thought I had.  I am not trying to elevate anyones blood pressure but I open for discussion.

I want to win whatever we do and I believe we are not using one of our Canadas resources.

Segregation based on race is not only just plain wrong, it's a violation of the Charter and the Human Rights Code. Besides, I was under the impression that when a soldier that deploys to a country of their ethnic origin, we change hide their connection to that country by changing their nametag (I seem to remember a post here somewhere referencing a troop of Yugo descent having a name tag with 'Smith' on it).

Offline 57Chevy

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2010, 20:25:05 »
Having a respected proportion of Foreign Canadians in any unit is ideal.
It represents the multicultural society that we live in.
We are all responsible for the defence of our country :cdn:

Offline Task

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2010, 20:38:13 »
Segregation based on race is not only just plain wrong, it's a violation of the Charter and the Human Rights Code. Besides, I was under the impression that when a soldier that deploys to a country of their ethnic origin, we change hide their connection to that country by changing their nametag (I seem to remember a post here somewhere referencing a troop of Yugo descent having a name tag with 'Smith' on it).

I would think it would have to be organized like scottish Regiments. Any may join but the attraction would likely be of the targeted ethnic culture.

We changed their names for a different reason than what I am proposing. The Smith we used in Bosnia was used to spy on our interpreters to ensure they were relaying what we were saying to the population. I imagine the reason we did this (correct me if I am wrong) and not use them for terps was because we did not have enough of them.



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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2010, 20:46:18 »
PPCLI: Largely Redneck (  ); The RCR : a preponderance of Newfoundlanders and Maritimers which makes it difficult to communicate with either of the other 2 regiments
[off topic]
:warstory: Oh,"Down Home" isn't too difficult to learn, back in the day in London, the whole battalion spoke it fluently.  Even those that weren't from Down Home.  So fluently in fact, I seem to remember one spectacular dressing-down because the subject had answered, "Yes b'y" to a CSM.  I think the lad was from Ottawa.  Even the servers at Timmies on Oxford St. learned it, and spoke it.

I also remember a certain eight-fingered Sgt. in the INT Sect., re-badged in from The PPCLI, who grew to "appreciate" the phrase, "LOR' TUNNERIN'.. (fill in the blank)!!!"
[/off topic]

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2010, 23:28:52 »
Hell, half of 3PPCLI were Cape Bretoners, Newfies or from PEI when I was in. Good scrappers. You wanted a Caper on your side when things went sideways at the Tudor House (plugs always outnumbered us 5 to 1).

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2010, 00:13:50 »
Without the Reserve tribes I think we already would have gone to a much cheaper and easier system of numbered regiments like Australia has done.

This is probably the only statement in 4 pages actually worth discussing.
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Offline Technoviking

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Re: How about forming a Reg Force Kilted Regiment
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2010, 09:03:29 »
Quote
Without the Reserve tribes I think we already would have gone to a much cheaper and easier system of numbered regiments like Australia has done.
This is probably the only statement in 4 pages actually worth discussing.
As I recall from my Regimental Officers' Indoctrination Course in 1999, we were told how back during unification/integration, there was a move afoot to do just that; however, it wasn't the Reserve Tribes that "saved" us: it was the Royal 22e Régiment.  It was argued that without a unique "canadien" regiment, an aspect of our "dual" society would have been lost.  Let us not forget that in that time (~1970) a certain group of young Québecois youth were feeling "disenfranchised" and had a little club called the "FLQ".  Anyway, that's how it was explained to us.

As for having units such as "Queen's Own Rifles" on UN duties as neutral observers when on one side of the belligerants were elements of the UK Army, who also had as commander in chief a certain HM The Queen, the appearance was that they weren't neutral at all.

As for having regiments that are based on exclusivity, I'd rather have inclusivity, which we already do.  The Royal Canadian Regiment, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infanty and Royal 22e Régiment all have rich histories and traditions that reflect Canadian history.  The reserve units also have rich histories that reflect and comprise Canadian History. 

As stated elsewhere in this thread: the system may need tweaking, but when prioritised, it falls well after such things as "What APC will we need?" and "How can we train musketry?".  Besides, wouldn't an airborne highland regiment require special weighted kilts to avoid this?
So, there I was....