Author Topic: The Next Conservative Leader  (Read 137334 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Altair

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 22,664
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #850 on: May 30, 2017, 02:27:36 »
Tim Moen of the libertarian party of canada is willing to step aside as leader to let Maxime Bernier run as leader.

I would vote for that.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 103,295
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #851 on: May 30, 2017, 10:34:25 »
I don't know much about Scheer and not a lot of buzz out here about him, the good news is that he can work with a more or less clean slate and acknowledging where Harper disconnected with the people and refusing to follow that path will make look more interesting. JT is bungling stuff and lot's of people are uneasy about his leadership ability, so Scheer needs to show solutions to problems that both Canadians and the CPC can accept and avoid giving the Liberals ammunition to work with.

Offline ModlrMike

    : Riding time again... woohooo!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 197,974
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,449
    • Canadian Association of Physician Assistants
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #852 on: May 30, 2017, 10:45:45 »
Sure - things can happen.  To put it in perspective though, a Canadian government with a majority hasn't failed to secure a second mandate since 1935.

So to keep it in perspective... statistically, we're due for a different outcome then.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline Altair

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 22,664
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #853 on: May 31, 2017, 09:07:18 »
For anyone wondering how Scheer did so well in Quebec over Bernier.

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/terence-corcoran-bernier-didnt-lose-the-leadership-it-was-stolen-by-dairy-lobby-fake-conservatives

Quote
Close to half of the Conservative party members who voted Saturday supported Bernier and his relatively moderate libertarian agenda of less government and lower taxes. The official count, based on the ballot-point system, was Andrew Scheer 17,221 points (50.95 per cent) versus Maxime Bernier 16,578 (49.05 per cent).

That’s close. But if accounts from the frontline are accurate, Bernier would have won the leadership were it not for vote-rigging infiltrators from the farmers’ unions and associated backers of supply management.

One source says that as many as 3,000 points went to Scheer, mostly in Quebec and Ontario, as a result of an organized campaign in which farmers temporarily joined the Conservative party and then cast votes against Bernier.

Bernier didn’t lose the leadership vote; it was stolen from him by a concerted campaign organized by members of Union des producteurs agricoles (UPA) and farmers in Ontario. Via Facebook, Quebec farmers and others were urged to join the Conservative party and vote for Andrew Scheer.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 94,310
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,821
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #854 on: May 31, 2017, 09:35:24 »
Couldn't have been that well organized a campaign if it took until the 13th ballot to have its effect.

Offline Altair

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 22,664
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #855 on: May 31, 2017, 09:53:01 »
Couldn't have been that well organized a campaign if it took until the 13th ballot to have its effect.
Dairy farmers who organized via facebook, no probably not very well organized.

Still effective enough though.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Lumber

  • Donor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 41,594
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,634
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #856 on: May 31, 2017, 10:45:04 »
For anyone wondering how Scheer did so well in Quebec over Bernier.

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/terence-corcoran-bernier-didnt-lose-the-leadership-it-was-stolen-by-dairy-lobby-fake-conservatives

There's no requirement that says you have to be a member of the CPC for "x" number of days/months/years, or have invested "y" amount of effort/interest/thought in the party, before your are eligible to cast a vote.

Regardless of whatever the article may be insinuating, registered members of CPC voted democratically for their new leader.  Period.

If the most motivated group of people were farmers, then maybe they should have had greater say.

I myself, not currently a member of any party, was tempted to join the CPC so that I could vote, but I did not, because I have no issues I'm passionate about to give me the motivation to do so. Had I had such passions, as it appears these farmers did, I would have. If I was really passionate about those issues, may I too would have rallied like minded individuals to sign-up and vote.

As far as I'm concerned, the tone of this article is back-a$$wards; these farmers actually demonstrated real democracy.
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline Altair

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 22,664
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #857 on: May 31, 2017, 15:13:15 »
There's no requirement that says you have to be a member of the CPC for "x" number of days/months/years, or have invested "y" amount of effort/interest/thought in the party, before your are eligible to cast a vote.

Regardless of whatever the article may be insinuating, registered members of CPC voted democratically for their new leader.  Period.

If the most motivated group of people were farmers, then maybe they should have had greater say.

I myself, not currently a member of any party, was tempted to join the CPC so that I could vote, but I did not, because I have no issues I'm passionate about to give me the motivation to do so. Had I had such passions, as it appears these farmers did, I would have. If I was really passionate about those issues, may I too would have rallied like minded individuals to sign-up and vote.

As far as I'm concerned, the tone of this article is back-a$$wards; these farmers actually demonstrated real democracy.
democracy in the sense of guys who don't care about the CPC, won't vote for the CPC in a election, and will vanish from the CPC now that the leadership contest is done effected the vote and was the deciding factor of who was the leader of the CPC.

Well within the rules, but the group one wouldn't want deciding leadership contests.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 15:24:58 by Altair »
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,467
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #858 on: May 31, 2017, 15:30:36 »
democracy in the sense of guys who don't care about the CPC, won't vote for the CPC in a election, and will vanish from the CPC now that the leadership contest is done effected the vote and was the deciding factor of who was the leader of the CPC.
Or even though this guy may not have been top-of-ballot for everyone, enough people had him somewhere on the ballot to make the cut all the way thru.

Curious - what are you basing the bits in yellow on?  Those who buy the "social conservatives as kingmakers" argument would say the opposite of that.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Altair

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 22,664
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,165
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #859 on: May 31, 2017, 15:44:14 »
Or even though this guy may not have been top-of-ballot for everyone, enough people had him somewhere on the ballot to make the cut all the way thru.

Curious - what are you basing the bits in yellow on?  Those who buy the "social conservatives as kingmakers" argument would say the opposite of that.
Quote
Close to half of the Conservative party members who voted Saturday supported Bernier and his relatively moderate libertarian agenda of less government and lower taxes. The official count, based on the ballot-point system, was Andrew Scheer 17,221 points (50.95 per cent) versus Maxime Bernier 16,578 (49.05 per cent).

That’s close. But if accounts from the frontline are accurate, Bernier would have won the leadership were it not for vote-rigging infiltrators from the farmers’ unions and associated backers of supply management.

One source says that as many as 3,000 points went to Scheer, mostly in Quebec and Ontario, as a result of an organized campaign in which farmers temporarily joined the Conservative party and then cast votes against Bernier.

Bernier didn’t lose the leadership vote; it was stolen from him by a concerted campaign organized by members of Union des producteurs agricoles (UPA) and farmers in Ontario. Via Facebook, Quebec farmers and others were urged to join the Conservative party and vote for Andrew Scheer.

Three Quebec ridings tell the story. One is Beauce, Bernier’s home riding. Right off the bat, in the opening round of the ranked ballot, Scheer collected 46.63 per cent of the points against 47.5 per cent for Bernier. By the end of the final round, Scheer was at 51 per cent versus 48 for Bernier — in a riding where Bernier is a local hero among Conservatives and hardly anyone would even know Scheer’s name.

Or take Saint-Hyacinthe–Bagot, a riding just south of Montreal. Scheer led from the first ballot with 61.4 per cent. Scheer ended the final ballot at almost 76 per cent. Is it a coincidence that Saint-Hyacinthe, Que. is home to a branch of the Institut de technologie agroalimentaire, a provincial agri-food training centre where professors and students would be heavily behind supply management? Also in the riding is an Agriculture Canada research centre, where supply management is embedded policy

In another farm riding — Lévis-Lotbinière — Scheer took 47 per cent on the first ballot against 32 per cent for Bernier. Scheer moved up to 54 per cent in the final ballot.

Again, in places where nobody knew his name, Andrew Scheer won the ballot contests.

Few of these ballot forms would have been filled out by loyal or longstanding Conservatives — or Conservatives of any kind. It is unlikely any have ever voted Conservative in the past. In these three crucial ridings, and others in Quebec, native son Maxime Bernier was defeated by fake Tories, drive-in drive-out party crashers whose sole motive was to defeat Bernier and uphold their supply-management racket.

The farm campaign was reportedly organized by a farmer via Facebook. He attracted thousands of followers and explicitly advised people to join the party and vote for Andrew Scheer.

The president of the UPA — the Quebec farmers union — claimed victory in an interview with Le Soleil. “There aren’t very many of us, agricultural producers, so the fact that we succeeded in mobilizing ourselves to affect the results in Quebec means that the number of Conservative Party members in Quebec is relatively small.”

http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/terence-corcoran-bernier-didnt-lose-the-leadership-it-was-stolen-by-dairy-lobby-fake-conservatives
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 16:22:05 by Altair »
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 185,550
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,853
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #860 on: May 31, 2017, 15:56:26 »
Couldn't have been that well organized a campaign if it took until the 13th ballot to have its effect.



Total number of dairy farms in Canada - 11,280
Total number of dairy farms in Ontario - 3,731
Total number of dairy farms in Quebec - 5.546
Total number of Agropur dairy members - 3,345

So.....3000 votes.    Large percentage of a small pool.

But that would be collusion.

By the way..... not unhappy with Scheer.  Would have been happier with Max.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 15:59:34 by Chris Pook »
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,467
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #861 on: May 31, 2017, 16:35:55 »
... But that would be collusion ...
One man's collusion is another's block special-interest voting  ;D
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 186,537
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,750
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #862 on: May 31, 2017, 16:42:04 »
There's no requirement that says you have to be a member of the CPC for "x" number of days/months/years

Yes, there is. There was a publicized cut-off date for new members several months in advance of the vote. Anybody who joined after that was not eligible.

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 185,550
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,853
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #863 on: May 31, 2017, 19:20:07 »
One man's collusion is another's block special-interest voting  ;D

My conspiracy.  Your plan.  :nod:
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,467
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #864 on: June 01, 2017, 06:58:57 »
Aaaaaaaaand from the predictably whiny Socialists with the International Committee of the Fourth International ...
Quote
Andrew Scheer was elected last Saturday as the new leader of the Conservative Party, Canada’s Official Opposition, in a membership vote. His victory, largely thanks to appeals to social conservatives and a brazen defence of former Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s hard-right record, brings an end to a campaign which saw the Conservatives move still further right.

Scheer, a Saskatchewan MP and former House of Commons Speaker, has cast himself as “Harper with a smile.” On the 13th ballot he secured 51 percent support, in an electoral system that gave each constituency equal weight irrespective of the number of Conservative voters. He defeated Maxime Bernier, a self-avowed libertarian and Harper cabinet minister who had led on all previous 12 ballots.

Scheer’s campaign drew on the militarism, xenophobia and low tax policies espoused by Harper during his decade in power.

(...)

Although Scheer laid claim to Harper’s mantle, his victory does not mean the Conservatives are simply following Harper’s agenda, as right-wing as that was. The leadership campaign saw the Conservatives shift still further to the right and even openly flirt with extreme right-wing and fascistic forces.

(...)
A peek into the OPFOR playbook ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Lightguns

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 25,000
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,022
  • I live for trout and deer
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #865 on: June 01, 2017, 07:24:41 »
Aaaaaaaaand from the predictably whiny Socialists with the International Committee of the Fourth International ...A peek into the OPFOR playbook ...

I wondered where all them copy writers from Pravda went to after the fall of the USSR.  Apparently they emigrated..............
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,465
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,467
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #866 on: June 01, 2017, 09:16:30 »
I wondered where all them copy writers from Pravda went to after the fall of the USSR.  Apparently they emigrated..............
Not all of them, given Pravda's still around.  That said, these are the guys who've said the NDP isn't quite socialist enough for their liking.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline ballz

    ...

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 99,896
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,968
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #867 on: June 01, 2017, 16:34:01 »
I've been on Maple Resolve so I haven't had a chance to comment in this, here it goes...

Obviously I am very upset with the final results. I did not put anyone else but Max down on my ballot because no one represented my principles, and stuck to those principles, except for him.

I don't understand how anyone can preach free markets, vehemently hate socialism, but defend supply management... one of the most socialist policies we have in Canada which triples the price of staple foods like eggs, having a negative effect on everyone but especially on the poor.

I do think the article about the dairy lobby is correct. Yes, it was within the rules, but if the Liberal Party told 5000 strategically placed members to quit the party for 4 months and vote in the CPC election, it would also be within the rules but would 100% be infiltration.

What we have in the dairy industry is a bunch of socialists that infiltrated the election and effectively changed the vote amongst Conservatives to protect their cartel. Most will not vote CPC in the next election.

The fact that some people are happy about this simply because they didn't want a leader from Quebec, despite his clear principled stance on free markets, makes it hard to take anyone seriously.

In the end, the social conservative wing of the party may have limped across the finish line, but their grip and influence is weakening. We got a libertarian from Quebec to 49% in the CPC. Its a tough loss to swallow, but real tangible change in the direction of our country isn't achieved in one election.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline Cdn Blackshirt

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 10,820
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,331
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #868 on: June 03, 2017, 09:30:31 »
The more I read, the more I am baffled that the CPC allowed a special interest group to make protection of supply--side agricultural monopolies as the tipping point in the nomination.

That is just ridiculous .... :facepalm:
IMPORTANT - 'Blackshirt' is a reference to Nebraska Cornhuskers Football and not naziism.   National Champions '70, '71, '94, '95 and '97.    Go Huskers!!!!

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 185,550
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,853
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #869 on: June 03, 2017, 10:51:39 »
The more I read, the more I am baffled that the CPC allowed a special interest group to make protection of supply--side agricultural monopolies as the tipping point in the nomination.

That is just ridiculous .... :facepalm:

In fairness,  I don't think they allowed it.  They just couldn't control it.

The ranked ballot with umpteen candidates simply meant the combinations and permutations were too great for any kind of feasible statistical analysis.  Nobody knew what the outcome was going to be.

The final result - a 50:50 split - is, from my standpoint, less than satisfactory.  It means that Andrew Scheer won the process. 

 
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline YZT580

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 16,600
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 499
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #870 on: June 03, 2017, 19:04:36 »
At least in Ontario, the vast number of rural ridings vote conservative so a farm vote from there will be followed up with support for the party. From Ontario west to the BC border the same statement is true.  So there is no real one shot vote as implied.  Whether you support it or not it was a demonstration of democracy in action and the people's choice was selected.  Not a huge majority selection but never-the-less a majority selection. 

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 186,537
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,750
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #871 on: June 03, 2017, 22:27:54 »
And it has not divided the party.

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 185,550
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,853
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #872 on: June 03, 2017, 23:13:32 »
And it has not divided the party.

That's a plus.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 132,625
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,623
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #873 on: June 27, 2017, 12:53:21 »
Anyone else notice that Peter MacKay has had two big mentions published in the Post in the past week including one article of his own? One on free trade with Britain post-Brexit, and one on national securty / anti-terrorism

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/peter-mackay-canada-cannot-afford-to-turn-soft-on-terrorism-it-still-needs-c-51/wcm/aa8c635f-2c57-469c-ad43-b33e76cc4789

http://business.financialpost.com/legal-post/canada-should-pursue-free-trade-deal-with-u-k-peter-mackay-says/wcm/bb8991f6-bccf-4bca-b64d-4ba3d39eeed4

I know I'm hardly the first to predict this, but I doubt Scheer can take Trudeau in 2019, and I suspect we're seeing the first steps in a setup for a 2021 MacKay leadership run for leader of CPC as official opposition into election 2023. He got out of federal politics in time before the CPC came crashing down, he's generally liked and respected, and he's from the PC side and not a social conservative, which frankly the CPC really needs right now. I'll be keeping an eye open for any further MacKay mentions in the next year or two..
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 473,915
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,934
Re: The Next Conservative Leader
« Reply #874 on: June 27, 2017, 13:19:08 »
He got out of federal politics in time before the CPC came crashing down, he's generally liked and respected, and he's ....
He plays rugby.  Say no more.   :nod: