Poll

Where do YOU feel the cenotaph's new home should be?

Beechwood Cemetery
9 (25%)
Canadian National War Museum
24 (66.7%)
NDHQ (Nortel Campus)
1 (2.8%)
Elsewhere in Ottawa (post a comment explaining where/why)
2 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: January 23, 2012, 06:41:33

Author Topic: Where should the monuments come home to?  (Read 52104 times)

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Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 20:16:13 »
 :piper: Trenton :piper:

Offline GAP

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 21:09:56 »
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline marshall sl

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 21:19:19 »
I Agree!
The land of hills, glens, and heroes; where the ptarmigan thrives and where the red deer finds shelter; as long as mist hangs o'er the mountains and water runs in the glens, may the deeds of its brave be remembered, and health and victory be with the lads of the Cabar Feidh."

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2010, 21:31:25 »
Anywhere but Ottawa.

Trenton is an excellent choice
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Offline riggermade

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2010, 21:38:20 »
My only concern with Trenton is that it should be someplace accessable to the public
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2010, 21:48:20 »
Regardless of whether either of the memorials ends up in Ottawa, we ought to have something for Afghanistan here in the NCR, either at Beechwood or at the War Museum.

I found both of the memorials very beautiful and tasteful, and would like to see something like them replicated here, not unlike the American Vietnam memorial. But in particular the pictures of the troops are a very nice touch, and one I'd like to see preserved.
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Offline riggermade

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2010, 21:52:04 »
Personally I like the idea of the War Museum...I think they have done an excellent job and that room they have just does me in every time I go thru it and I tink they would do an excellent job of presenting it with the respect they deserve
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Offline gun runner

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2010, 22:06:43 »
I am all for Trenton. Cheers.
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Offline Technoviking

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2010, 22:37:31 »
For Trenton, the perfect place, in my opinion, would be on RCAF road (formerly AMDU Road for us "old folks").  Right at the intersection with former Highway 2, where the Highway of Heroes begins, right after "Repatriation Row" (as I've heard it called).  It's easily accessible, and a small dignified park could be created there, and there is already a small parking spot.   Yes, it's on a flight path, but isn't that fitting?  Every one of our returning fallen passed by their, and so have their families, in their time of grief.

As for Ottawa, there may be reason now to amend the National War Monument to include the inscription "Afghanistan 2001 - ????" (once it's all done).

So, there I was....

Offline mover1

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2010, 09:35:57 »
For Trenton, the perfect place, in my opinion, would be on RCAF road (formerly AMDU Road for us "old folks").  Right at the intersection with former Highway 2, where the Highway of Heroes begins, right after "Repatriation Row" (as I've heard it called).


No its still called Highway 2 its not Repatriation Row. I have heard in circles that that is what people want to call that stretch of road. I think its a dumb idea.  it only focuses in on loss. Who wants to deploy on a potentially dangerous mission and travel down a street called Repatriation Row. 
I can see it now.
"Excuse me can you direct me and my family to 2 AMU I am deploying to Africa and I need to catch my plane"
"Why yes travel down the highway of Heroes and at the end you go to repatriation row. take right. drive down there until you hit Legless lane and once you get there enter into the PTSD memorial parking lot.  and your there at 2 AMU. Thanks for your service and safe"

So please never refer to  that section Highway 2 as Repatriation Row.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2010, 10:07:55 »
Anywhere but Ottawa.

Trenton is an excellent choice


Why is everyone against putting them in Ottawa?  I am sure more people will be able to visit them at the CWM or the CMC in Beechwood, than in any of the 'smaller venues' elsewhere. 

Seriously.  Who really goes to Trenton?  Not many.  (Although the Air Force Museum is a nice visit)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 10:15:41 by George Wallace »
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Offline Shamrock

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2010, 10:16:02 »
I vote Ottawa.  Ensure it is somewhere it can be incorporated with the NCR Remembrance Day ceremony.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2010, 10:44:01 »
I vote Ottawa.  Ensure it is somewhere it can be incorporated with the NCR Remembrance Day ceremony.
I disagree.  As far as I know, there is but one monument in Ottawa that is "national", and it currently commemorates the fallen of WW1, WW2 and Korea (as far as I understand it).  I found a monument dedicated to the Boer War in Confederation Park, and the Korean War-specific monument is in Brampton.
No its still called Highway 2 its not Repatriation Row. I have heard in circles that that is what people want to call that stretch of road. I think its a dumb idea.  it only focuses in on loss. Who wants to deploy on a potentially dangerous mission and travel down a street called Repatriation Row. 
I can see it now.
"Excuse me can you direct me and my family to 2 AMU I am deploying to Africa and I need to catch my plane"
"Why yes travel down the highway of Heroes and at the end you go to repatriation row. take right. drive down there until you hit Legless lane and once you get there enter into the PTSD memorial parking lot.  and your there at 2 AMU. Thanks for your service and safe"

So please never refer to  that section Highway 2 as Repatriation Row.
So, by your logic, the cenotaphs bearing the names of our fallen should be eliminated, and only put the names of those who came home on them?
We should NEVER forget our losses, ever.  But as I was just saying, I was referring to that stretch of road how it is known colloquially.

Anyway, I was thinking of this green space here

So, there I was....

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2010, 11:01:43 »
Anyway, I was thinking of this green space here

That greeen space is at the end of the runway.  Perhaps up the road at the museum would be more fitting and not require moving should the runway need extending.

I was thinking of this location at the National Military Cemetery.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2010, 11:12:46 »
I was thinking of this location at the National Military Cemetery.

I notice a small white wooden temporary cross in the right forground. It's a beautiful place that brings Canadians together.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2010, 11:26:50 »
The National Military Cemetery in Beechwood Cemetery is one of the numerous locations for Rememberance Day ceremonies.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2010, 11:35:37 »

Why is everyone against putting them in Ottawa?  I am sure more people will be able to visit them at the CWM or the CMC in Beechwood, than in any of the 'smaller venues' elsewhere. 

Seriously.  Who really goes to Trenton?  Not many.  (Although the Air Force Museum is a nice visit)

So the objective is to make it a tourist attraction?  Silly me, I thought it was a memorial.  If we want "asses in seats", lets put it in a downtown Montreal metro station.  Then you can pick up a souvenir spoon, get a hotdog or some candy floss, maybe a "I saw the Afghan war dead memorial" tee shirt.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2010, 11:39:30 »
Kat

Would it be better to put it at the end of the lane to your place, somewhere where fewer than ten people will know how to locate it without a Geocache program?

Why not around the graves of those who are memorialized on the monuments?  A place where the families would come and remember.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2010, 11:47:24 »
I get what your saying, but why must it be Ottawa?  Why do they get the corner on the memorial market?  Anyone who was a soldier through the late 70s, 80s and early 90s knows just how little that sucking black hole in the centre of the country gave a crap about us, and should be repulsed by the idea.  How many people would get to see it in Ottawa?  People from Ottawa, awfully nice for the rest of us.  I'm as likely to go to Trenton as I am Ottawa, more so, in fact.  Ottawa has no link to those particular dead, other than sending them there.  There is a real link to Trenton.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Technoviking

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2010, 12:00:23 »
George
If that runway needs extending, it would block a major North/South route at that end.  If we need longer runways (it's long enough for our Globemasters, and for Galaxies that have landed, and taken off successfully, from there), then they could always go the other way.

Now, without getting into a "why not Ottawa" debate, I would offer up instead "why Trenton".  As stated, that is the start point for the Highway of Heroes, and every one of our fallen, and their families, have passed through there.  This is where they were reunited with their loved ones, and as such, I feel that the honour to remember the fallen be in Trenton.
So, there I was....

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2010, 12:10:48 »
If it wasn't for the fact that we have in the last ten years or so set up the National Military Cemetery, sort of like Arlington in Washington, I wouldn't have any objections to where they would go and I wouldn't have suggested it.  If the memorials were Regimentally or Unit specifice, I would suggest they go to the Unit.  As they aren't, I am not really sure where they should go to find a "National" resting place.  The CWM or NMC seem to be the best candidates to fit the bill as a "National" location.  The location of the National Air Force Museum of Canada doesn't quite fill a "National" military criteria being focused on the Airforce, but would still be an acceptable location. 

In the end, it is a tough decision.  Should the memorials go to Ottawa, Trenton, Valcartier, Petawawa, Edmonton, Regina, St John's, Norman Wells, or where ever, is a debatable question that I am sure will not appease any majority from anywhere in the land.

I just don't want to see them land up in a storage box, in the back of some Hangar 16, in some unknown location.
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Offline Technoviking

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2010, 12:13:27 »
Here's how the thing could look, just an idea I came up with

There is ample parking just to the north of the drawing below, and people could park there if they wished to visit and pay tribute at the Monument.

The walking entrance is from the east, off of RCAF Road.

There is a circular path around the monument, to represent the completion of the circle of life, the reunion of the fallen with their loved ones.

There are 13 mature maples around the outside of the path, to represent each of Canada's provinces and territories.

On the inside of the path are individual markers, with brief remarks about the fallen.  Stuff like their home town, maybe some snippets of noteworthy things from their lives, whatever.  Each is individual, just as each of the fallen were.

The monument is simply the "one" we remember from Camp Mirage.


I think that Trenton is fitting for all the right reasons for this monument.  Though KAF was the start for their journey home, the former place for the monument, Camp Mirage, was also a transition point. 

Anyway, my $0.02





So, there I was....

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2010, 13:17:50 »
I see what folks are saying about leaving the monuments in Afghanistan.

Stipulated: the monuments should come home.

Unfortunately Canada is a big country.  If the monuments are to be collocated then it will require a pilgrimage for much of the Canadian and Forces communities to see them.  And unless they are located at a base they won't be saluted on a daily basis by their friends as they pass by.

Kat, if they don't put them in Ottawa then its going to be a pilgrimage to Trenton, Gagetown, Petawawa, Valcartier or Edmonton. If they don't put them in the National War Museum then Newfoundlanders the served in Pet could find themselves having to come out to the Museum of the Regiments in Calgary to visit them.

There is no good place.  There is only a least worst place and for good or ill Ottawa is the Capital of the Nation, it is a military town, it has a garrison, it has the National Cemetery.


If the monuments are to come home then I think George has the right of it with the cemetery in Ottawa.


Could "copies" of the monuments - or at least echoes - be made and distributed to the major garrisons and Trenton, and perhaps, even, keep one in Kandahar?
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2010, 13:52:33 »
Let us not forget that each of these fallen Canadians had a home town, and that it is very probable that their names have already been added to the local war memorials. Certainly that is what has happened here in North Grenville, where the name of Private Blake Williamson of Charles Company was engraved on our war memorial along with the title "Afghanistan."

Ottawa is, I believe, the place for the national memorial, but I am torn between the War Museum and the National Military Cemetery.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2010, 14:12:04 »
Kirkhill,  it's a big country.  The fallen have come from across it.  It doesn't matter where you would put the memorial, folks will have to travel to see it. 

When I first saw this topic my initial reaction of locale was Trenton.  That is where they first touched down on home soil, where their family met them.  There is that connection for all concerned.  Screw Ottawa!  Ottawa has used us for pawns extensively at their leisure for their own ends. Look at what is happening now with all the different parties on the mission extension, makes me somewhat ill.  Personally speaking, if I was on that memorial I would not want it to end up in Ottawa.