Poll

Where do YOU feel the cenotaph's new home should be?

Beechwood Cemetery
9 (25%)
Canadian National War Museum
24 (66.7%)
NDHQ (Nortel Campus)
1 (2.8%)
Elsewhere in Ottawa (post a comment explaining where/why)
2 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 34

Voting closed: January 23, 2012, 06:41:33

Author Topic: Where should the monuments come home to?  (Read 48249 times)

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Offline Technoviking

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2010, 14:28:33 »
Ottawa is, I believe, the place for the national memorial, but I am torn between the War Museum and the National Military Cemetery.
I agree that a national memorial ought to be in the nation's capital.  As for the current monuments I don't feel that they suffice as a national memorial, but rather: where do we put these existing monuments that have to come home?

For the one that was in Mirage, I offer up Trenton as the logical choice for the reasons I stated above.
So, there I was....

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2010, 14:56:18 »
While I'd prefer small local monuments across Canada, the family dynamics may make it difficult to pick the best spot for each fallen.

If the original monument in question was at a transit base, it makes sense to me moving it to Trenton, another transit base of sorts for the fallen.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2010, 15:32:44 »
When I first saw this topic my initial reaction of locale was Trenton.  That is where they first touched down on home soil, where their family met them.  There is that connection for all concerned.  Screw Ottawa!  Ottawa has used us for pawns extensively at their leisure for their own ends. Look at what is happening now with all the different parties on the mission extension, makes me somewhat ill.  Personally speaking, if I was on that memorial I would not want it to end up in Ottawa.

 ???

What does the politics of our politicos have to do with it.  If you want to get that way then the whacked out politicians in BC negate any monument going there.  Same can be said for Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and many other provincial politicians.  Dan Williams has been such a meathead, do we want to send anything his way?  From coast to coast we have bumbling fumbling politicians.  I don't see what your point is.........or do you just equate the Nation's Capital as being the essence and prime focus of your political bias.   The Nations Capital isn't made up solely of the political hacks you so despise.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2010, 15:39:46 »
The Governing Parties of Canada have used us for pawns extensively at their leisure for their own ends. Look at what is happening now with all the different parties on the mission extension, makes me somewhat ill.  Personally speaking, if I was on that memorial I would not want it to end up on Parliament Hill.

Fixed that for you.

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An Ottawan
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2010, 16:25:33 »
Fixed that for you.

Regards,
An Ottawan

Ta.  Havok, all PC'd now.  Nothing against the general run of the mill, Ottawan.   My apologies, a knee jerk reaction (and yes, George I was being a jerk too) as I equate in my mind's eye the Hill and all it entails when "Ottawa" comes to mind.

George, why should everything go to the Nation's Capital automatically?  There is plenty there already, National Cemetery, CWM, etc etc.   I stand by my agreement on Trenton.  That is where they came home to first and connects us all, fallen, family's, comrades, Canadians.



Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2010, 16:32:52 »
How about CFB Kingston, at RMC or out front of the Div HQ?

One location would be influencing the minds of new young O/Cdts.  The other would be in the minds of the planners of other expeditions.
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Offline mover1

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2010, 21:47:39 »
So, by your logic, the cenotaphs bearing the names of our fallen should be eliminated, and only put the names of those who came home on them?
We should NEVER forget our losses, ever.  But as I was just saying, I was referring to that stretch of road how it is known colloquially.

Anyway, I was thinking of this green space here


Dude ya lost me on the first part. :-\

 All I was saying was please don't refer to Highway 2 as Repatriation Row that name is something that was started by a small group of individuals. (I am thinking the CAV) and its not garnering a lot of public support.  We here in Trenton call it Highway 2 no one really calls it Repat Row.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 21:52:25 by mover1 »

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2010, 22:23:44 »
I think Trenton, rather than Ottawa.  While the CWM is nice, it's a civilian organization, and I think this should be kept in the "family." 

Brookwood was a peaceful spot when I last visited, but it is a spot that's both privately controlled and wide open to the public....some folks may not have the best intentions.  The day I visited, I spoke with the staff at Brookwood about one of the Contractors who was working on-site, and while working, did something that was, well, thoughtless disregard rather than willful damage.  The staff promised to have a word with the man about it.  I'd be concerned that if the monument was in a solely public location like Brookwood, there may be greater opportunity for harm to come to it, either through disregard, or willful damage.

Both CWM and Brookwood, while "appropriate" are not under the eyes of the CF, and I'm thinking that's important.

I also wonder about the timing of the intended return.

Is it going to be shipped home when the Camp is closed?  Or is it going to move to the new base-camp (presuming that there will be a new one, especially with the discussed "extension" of the mission.)

If it does come home is it at the end of the "Combat" phase? 

Suppose we end up having troops over there like we did in Cyprus?  When is the right time to bring it home?

As a sailor, I'm a relative outsider looking in at this, but those questions occurred to me as I perused this thread. 

I fear that whomever may take over the current site after we leave will not be as understanding as the German army in WWII when they took France and left the Vimy (and other) monuments to the fallen untouched and undamaged.

I think Trenton is an appropriate place for it to move to, and yes, in a relatively accessible but secured location, perhaps the base museum.

If I'm out of my lane with these questions and thoughts, feel free to steer me back, it's just my thoughts and ramblings.

NS
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Offline bruce7711

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2010, 23:48:22 »
Why not put it in jack Laytons or Iggys front yard, so everyday when they walk outside they can see the names of real Canadians, citizens with a set of plums etc.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2010, 06:22:54 »
Why not put it in jack Laytons or Iggys front yard, so everyday when they walk outside they can see the names of real Canadians, citizens with a set of plums etc.

 :cheers:

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2010, 08:06:21 »
Why not put it in jack Laytons or Iggys front yard, so everyday when they walk outside they can see the names of real Canadians, citizens with a set of plums etc.

You are downright EVIL.    :nod:
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2010, 08:19:17 »
Taliban Jack's constituency office is here. Sadly, there's not much room right there but there is a nice piece of grass just a few metres away, at Queen Alexandra Public School - maybe the good folks in the Trinity-Spadina riding, who consistently vote for Layton, would be good custodians of a memorial.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2010, 11:20:01 »
- maybe the good folks in the Trinity-Spadina riding, who consistently vote for Layton, would be good custodians of a memorial.

Although small geographically, it is very diverse. U of T ( the student vote ), Skydome, CNE, CN Tower, Metro Convention Centre, Kensington Market, Honest Ed's, Chinatown, Koreatown, Little Italy, Little Portugal, the Annex...

It's not unusual to see NDP, Liberal and Tory signs on the same lawn.

West of Bathurst, I would say mostly Liberal lawn signs. Joe Foti had an annual Bar-B-Q in his backyard that was famous.

Algonquin and Ward's Islands have a small but very political population that provides many campaign workers for the New Democrats. Certainly "a nice piece of grass".

« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 12:03:56 by mariomike »

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2010, 11:26:40 »
When the Taliban take over again, because of short-sightedness of politicians, they will be destroyed. Remember the Buddha in central Afghanistan?

I can't see it surviving.

My $0.02 worth.

Regards

I tend to agree. Much as I would like to see it stay there, this is not like the CWGC sites in Europe, Asia, and/or the Mid East.

When the Legion was forced to leave Algeria in the 1960's they careflly disassembled all their monuments and took them with theri artifacts back to France where they found new homes. The Rhodeisan Light Infantry also smuggled their beloved "Troopie" monument out of Zimbabwe when Mugabe took over knowing he planned to desecrate it. The statue is now in a park in England.

The War Museum, the National Cemetary, or somewhere in Trenton would seem appropriate to me.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2010, 15:29:48 »
My Front yard.

I live 2 blocks away from one of the bridges that passes over the Highway of heroes.  :D

I agree with Infanteer, The War Museum would be  a perfect place, as they have plenty of space around the building.

dileas

tess

Wouldn't that upset the staff, I hear that they are not all that keen on the subject of the military and current ops.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2010, 19:08:40 »
Wouldn't that upset the staff, I hear that they are not all that keen on the subject of the military and current ops.

Who gives a sh**? They can voice their displeasure at the ballot box like the rest of us if they don't like it. The CWM is the perfect place for the originals!

Now you may have been being facetious, but I'm not.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2010, 19:11:55 »
Wouldn't that upset the staff, I hear that they are not all that keen on the subject of the military and current ops.

Makes you wonder why their working at the War Museum...
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2010, 19:36:16 »
Wouldn't that upset the staff, I hear that they are not all that keen on the subject of the military and current ops.

You are thinking of their "Masters" at the Museum of Civilization. 
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2010, 21:18:49 »
I fear that whomever may take over the current site after we leave will not be as understanding as the German army in WWII when they took France and left the Vimy (and other) monuments to the fallen untouched and undamaged.

Even now, there are Canadian World War graves in Germany and Japan. German POWs are interred in Kitchener, Ontario.

Offline MrBlue

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2010, 21:57:40 »
Fact of the matter is that, the enemies in those conflicts were ACTUALLY civilized (to a degree) militaries (with uniforms, governments, rules etc), not just a rag tag bunch of "religious" zealots trying to eradicate everything WESTERN.

These people crashed planes loaded with innocent civilians into buildings, they use little kids as bombs, etc....you think they would honour the sanctity of those monuments?

I certainly don't.

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2010, 22:51:05 »
Being an outsider my suggestion would be to leave the memorial in place. The memories of the fallen live on with their families and their comrades. Their names are forever memorialized in their respective Regimental histories. As long as Canada remains free their sacrifice will not have been in vain. What better legacy can a soldier leave behind ?

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2010, 11:08:11 »


People are more likely to travel the 401 and take a 20 minute detour to see something in Trenton rather than Get off the 417 and try to navigate through Ottawa. Otttawa traffic is insane. 
401 See's more cross Canada traffic than the 417.
Imagine putting it at NDMC or NDHQ? Not very user friendly places to try and visit.
Chances of the monument getting defaced in Ottawa compared to Trenton.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2010, 11:14:27 »
Conversely, those who visit Ottawa to see the War Museum constitute an audience with specific interests that would include seeing such a monument.

Quote
The War Museum has become the second most-visited attraction in the National Capital Region, going from around 120,000 visitors at its previous location on Sussex Drive to some 500,000 visitors yearly in its new home.

http://www.museedelaguerre.ca/cwm/media/press-releases/2010/the-canadian-war-museum-is-5-years-old

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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2010, 11:19:25 »

People are more likely to travel the 401 and take a 20 minute detour to see something in Trenton rather than Get off the 417 and try to navigate through Ottawa. Otttawa traffic is insane. 
401 See's more cross Canada traffic than the 417.
Imagine putting it at NDMC or NDHQ? Not very user friendly places to try and visit.
Chances of the monument getting defaced in Ottawa compared to Trenton.


Without getting into specifics of this place vs. that, I like Grimaldus' idea of putting it where a whole lot of Canadians are likely to see it without having to make a special trip. Although it is fairly ON/QC oriented a small park at a public rest stop on/near the 401, or something like that somewhere (e.g. Hy 2 in AB), has merit.
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Re: Where should the monuments come home to?
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2010, 11:25:19 »
Now, my recommendation wasn't for a national Afghan War monument: that clearly needs to be designed and erected in Ottawa, our national capital.  My recommendation was for the one specific monument that used to be at Camp Mirage.  That one monument I think deserves to be placed in Trenton, in the same place (and manner) as I previously pointed out.  Its purpose I see as a memorial for the fallen.  An Afghan War Monument in Ottawa would serve to commemorate all who served, and the sacrifices they and their families made on behalf of the country.

So, there I was....