Author Topic: Earning Loss Benefit ( ELB )  (Read 53269 times)

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Offline GreenBarret01

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Earning Loss Benefit ( ELB )
« on: November 28, 2010, 20:03:30 »
ELB is paid while in rehab or until one is able to work. It terminates at the age of 65.

There are stories that ELB is canceled before one completes rehab since VAC decides that you are good to go.
Its also very rare to go past two years with SISIP.

Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefits after med release
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 21:09:13 »
This is not a forum for Legion hall stories, and Innuendos.

Your "Veiled" Posts trying to agitate the masses are weak.  Start your own forum, or blog to do this.  educate yourself first.

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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefits after med release
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 02:24:53 »
ELB is paid while in rehab or until one is able to work. It terminates at the age of 65.

There are stories that ELB is canceled before one completes rehab since VAC decides that you are good to go.
Its also very rare to go past two years with SISIP.

Can you provide links to the regulations for these?  What are your current sources for the official documents, so that someone else's starting point, if they are interested, isnt just "a rumour they saw posted on army.ca."

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefits after med release
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 11:28:34 »
The following details have been provided by the original poster:

Quote
"ELB is paid while in rehab or until one is able to work."
"First, by amending regulations, the government will establish a minimum pre-tax income of $40,000 a year for Veterans who can no longer work and for those who are in rehabilitation."
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=department/press/viewrelease&id=1042

"It terminates at the age of 65."
"However, e recently proposed $1,000 catastrophic award, the ELB, CPP disability and the SISIP LTD loss replacement payments all cease at the age of 65."
http://homecomingvets.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/veterans-incensed-at-latest-vac-backtracking-on-public-promises-both-versions-captured-here/

There are stories that ELB is canceled before one completes rehab since VAC decides that you are good to go.

First of all, I mentioned that there are stories and that is why I created a Poll to get to the bottom of it.

"Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB) is a taxable monthly benefit that equals 75% of gross pre-release salary, .... ELB can be provided on a temporary basis during a period of participation in an approved Rehabilitation program, or until age 65, if deemed “Totally and Permanently Incapacitated” for the purpose of suitable and gainful employment, or until the day of the Veteran’s non service related death if Veteran has not reached age 65."

I have heard stories before and I have seen it on here as well that it's not you that decides when you are rehabilitated. I will try to find the link here and send it to you.

Its also very rare to go past two years with SISIP.
Medically released member automatically get 2 years %75 pre-release salary. To go past 2 years one has to be "Totally disabled".
Being an insurance company, its very difficult to prove "total disability" and that is why its rare to go past 2 years with SISIP.
I am pretty sure we would have heard of stories if the Poll lived since I have heard of some.

"How long can I receive LTD benefits for?

If you are medically released, your initial benefits terminate 24 months after your effective date of release. Medical reviews will be conducted at 12 and 18 months to determine your eligibility for continued benefits beyond the initial 24-month period. As long as you qualify as totally disabled, you may be eligible for continued benefits up to your 65th birthday.

If you are released for reasons other than medical and you qualify as totally disabled you can receive benefits. Medical reviews are conducted once per year. You may be eligible for continued benefits up to your 65th birthday, as long as you qualify as totally disabled."
http://www.sisip.ca/en/Insurance_e/ltd_e.asp#2

Quote
"Earnings Loss Benefit (ELB) is a taxable monthly benefit that equals 75% of gross pre-release salary, .... ELB can be provided on a temporary basis during a period of participation in an approved Rehabilitation program, or until age 65, if deemed “Totally and Permanently Incapacitated” for the purpose of suitable and gainful employment, or until the day of the Veteran’s non service related death if Veteran has not reached age 65."

http://legion.ca/_PDF/SBureau/PolicyAd_1_e.pdf

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefits after med release
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 11:29:25 »
The following has been provided by BinRat:

Quote
I can tell you he is for the part correct, in that ELB does end if you complete the Rehab program, now are you all out of funds no, cause you can then get
other support called Canadian Forces Income Support, again which is VIA VAC, So to start, again, you can keep this to your self, and or if he replies at least
you'll have some answers....

Now here is a LINK to Parliament where you can read about
ELB which is Chapter 21, Section 18, and I'll just quote the part.. So 18.(3) states

Duration of benefit
(3) Subject to subsection (4) and section 21, the earnings loss benefit is payable to a veteran until the earlier of

(a) the day on which the veteran completes the rehabilitation plan or the vocational assistance plan,
(b) the day on which the rehabilitation plan or the vocational assistance plan is canceled, and
(c) the day on which the veteran attains the age of 65 years.

So, yes if you complete the rehab program and are able to work you can loose ELB, but as I said there is other Support which is this Canadian Forces Income Support which you can find right Here and it states the following

You may qualify for Canadian Forces Income Support if you:

    * are a CF Veteran who no longer qualifies for Earnings Loss Benefits and you:
          o successfully completed the Rehab Program;
          o need financial help because your household income is not enough to meet your basic needs;
          o are looking for a suitable job but have not been able to find one; and
          o live in Canada
    * no longer qualify for Earnings Loss Benefits, because you:
          o have reached the age of 65; or
          o are able to return to work.

As for stories about VAC canceling before one completes rehab, well only if you don't do what they want, as in Don't go to Appointments, and or fail to do something they as you to do in response to what you should be doing, or lack of, then VAC does have the power to cancel cause your NOT following the program, Have I heard of any, No

Have I heard of someone personally canceling rehab, Ahh ya, I told them to shove the rehab up the , cause I was so sick and tired of every appointment filling out this form or that form, and or doing this questionnaire, it was endless, and of course they said, well you'll loose ELB I said fine, but I'll keep my sanity, cause everyone kept asking the same question and it's like I've answered this 10 times already, Like don't you get info from VAC, So ya i lost it one day, and said enough was enough, and this was 2 year's into it.

And for the 2nd part, SISIP, it was, back before the NVC that SISIP was for 2 year's, at 75% of your pay, and that if after your 2 year's, if you were determined to be permanent disability, and or actually totally disabled I think the wording was, then yes you can get SISIP for life or was it 65, but again in 93 when I was released heck Under the terminology of totally incapacitated  not to many people actually got on SISIP because you didn't qualify under there definition, as it is today, I can't answer that as to if people are getting it permanently SISIP that is.

Anyhow how that might help, or be of some information and see if the person greenBarret01 replies to your closing of that post. 

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefits after med release
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 11:33:26 »
I will reopen this thread for continued discussion of and posting of FACTS and SOURCES.  Opinions, innuendo and empty posts will be removed by staff.  The subject of veterans' benefits is confusing enough without people getting misled by half-remembered or outdated details, or emotional responses.  Keep in mind, IT DOES NOT MATTER if you like or dislike any of these benefits or how they are presented - what you FEEL about the situation does not help someone else understand it, or help guide them to get a benefit they deserve, or to work at getting benefits changed.  Find somewhere else to post your OPINIONS of the Government, officials, VAC or the benefits themselves.  Discuss facts here, and back them up with sources others can use as proper references.

Thank you.

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Offline 25hz

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Earnings Loss Benefit program info
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 16:09:30 »
I did a forum search for any info on this, and found nothing, so I'm posting this ;)

Through VA, vets can access this Earnings Loss Benefit program.  It's to help the vets find work if they can no longer get employment in their currently trained field due to medical issues related to military service.

VA pays up to 75% of your monthly salary and it is indexed to today's rate while you get your ducks in a row to get a new career started.  VA takes the 75% figure, subtracts the amount of your military pension per month, and then tops up the rest.

This program also includes retraining if necessary and it depends on a number of factors, specific to each individual, on how much VA will pay for retraining, and how long the vet stays on the program.  They can/will also pay for any equipment needed for the retraining, like hard hats, coveralls, work boots, books, etc.

The important thing to note, that VA doesn't seem to be interested in telling the vets, is that the target goal is a MINIMUM yearly income of $40,000 (roughly $20/hr or about $2000 net/month).  This might not seem like a lot, but in this labour market, it's pretty good, especially if you are also getting a military pension and an older style VA monthly pension.  So, for any that are in the program, or join it, if they try to shove you out the program's door with anything less than that figure, mention the $40,000 mandated figure :)

Just a FYI for anyone that didn't know the program existed, because after 13 years of dealing with VA - I just found out about it.   :salute:

Offline pinger206

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit program info
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 15:52:19 »
25Hz...

    Thanks for the info, I could not find many experiences of others. I am in the midst of ELB which just started for me. I feel I am fortunate, but it really peeves me off that there are benefits available, but being aware of them, or applying for them is such a tricky pickle. In hindsight, I think a demandingly , pro-active approach is good to have. I could have been approved for ELB a long time ago but was not aware >:( Just like PSHCP, the health care plan. I didn't serve for 10, but I'm approved as it is an option under voc. rehab. But what a can of worms trying to get knowledgeable about that.
    Worst of all, others who need these benefits, are applicable for them, but suffer by not being aware of them.
Knowledge is power but the VAC can be a litttle shy on informing us or being forthcoming inspite of what is/was available on their site.

    Pinger206   
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Earning Loss Benefit ( ELB )
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2015, 01:32:49 »
How do they calculate the Earnings Loss Benefit. Say, a Reservist Cpl, after returning from deployment stays with his unit for five years, on Cl A. On release, it's determined they have severe PTSD, as a result of their service. This has affected their civilian employment to the point they can no longer work, in any capacity. What does VAC base the Earning Loss Benefit on, if at all? Is it his civie employment rate or the military full time (Class C) rate at time of release?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 01:35:50 by recceguy »
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Offline Teager

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 13:20:32 »
RG I know that with the changes that were last made with your example even a CL A Cpl will make the minimum of $42K a year. This will come to $3029 a month after taxes. I don't believe they take your civi employment and what you made into consideration. I believe it's strictly based off your rank and your Class and then 75% of that but it can't go below the pay of a basic Cpl.

I think Blackberet will be able to provide a better answer tho as I"m not 100%

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 14:53:02 »
Cheers :salute:
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline RobA

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 17:54:02 »
Just as an aside, Trudeau campaigned on pretty specific policies for veterans. One of them is raising the  Earnings Loss benefit from 70% to 90%.


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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2015, 18:02:09 »
And we'll see if he does it, I won't hold my breath.

Offline RobA

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2015, 22:19:27 »
For sure. They are politicians after all. I'm optimistic though.

Its not like they made vague promises, they made very specific policy goals. Not to mention Trudeau was elected on a "change" platform, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt .

Here's an excerpt from a G & M article today:

"The Liberals also promised to invest an additional $100-million a year to expand support for families who are caring for veterans with physical or mental-health issues. And they pledged to expand access to the permanent impairment allowance for veterans with career-ending injuries and to increase the earnings-loss benefit to 90 per cent of a veteran’s prerelease salary.

Asked if this means a bigger overall budget for Veterans Affairs, rather than just reallocating funds within the department’s envelope, Mr. Hehr said only that the Liberals will “do what’s necessary to fill our promises” and he would ensure the money that’s necessary is there for former soldiers."

Offline Wookilar

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 20:44:06 »
So, if the ELB is raised to 90%, what about SISIP? Can you "opt-out" of SISIP and proceed directly to VAC?
Why are there swamps on top of hills?

Offline Teager

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2015, 21:33:57 »
So, if the ELB is raised to 90%, what about SISIP? Can you "opt-out" of SISIP and proceed directly to VAC?

I have a feeling the government would push to have SISIP match the 90% I could be wrong tho.

Offline flashman

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2015, 05:52:47 »
How do they calculate the Earnings Loss Benefit. Say, a Reservist Cpl, after returning from deployment stays with his unit for five years, on Cl A. On release, it's determined they have severe PTSD, as a result of their service. This has affected their civilian employment to the point they can no longer work, in any capacity. What does VAC base the Earning Loss Benefit on, if at all? Is it his civie employment rate or the military full time (Class C) rate at time of release?

For a PRes injured on Cl C service, it's 75% of their monthly salary at the end of the contract on which they were injured. No less than $42,426 as mentioned.

Since there's no CPP or other deductions, 75% of gross is pretty much what they would have been paid monthly at the time.


Offline blackberet17

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2015, 12:44:59 »
Sorry guys, been super busy of late.

Quote
Monthly Imputed Income - Reserve Force Veterans
For the purposes of subsections 8(1), 9(1) and section 19 of the Act, the MII of a Veteran released from the Reserve Force is dependent on the class of service at the time of the injury or disease which lead to the Veteran’s release, or the event that lead to the health problem creating a barrier to re-establishment was incurred, contracted or aggravated.

The MII will be the greater of:

  • the Veteran’s MMS (edit: Monthly Military Salary) at the time of release from the service in which the Veteran’s the injury or disease which lead to the Veteran’s release, or the event that lead to the health problem creating a barrier to re-establishment occurred, adjusted until the benefit is payable; and
  • the MMS for a basic corporal in the standard pay group at the time the benefit is payable.


and

Quote
In the case of Regular Force Veterans, Class “C”, Class “B” and Class A Reserve Force Veterans, the MMS used to determine the MII is generally the monthly military salary at the time of release, or at the time of completion of the period of service during which the injury or illness occurred.

Hope that's of some help. It's not my area of expertise, so I'm quoting current (to 01 Apr 15) policy docs.
« Ne vous occupez pas d'eux; ils ne savent pas tirer. [...] Il y a des ennemis devant nous, derrière nous et sur nos flancs. Il ne reste qu'une place sans danger, soit vers l'objectif. » Paul Triquet, VC

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2015, 12:48:15 »
Sorry guys, been super busy of late.

and

Hope that's of some help. It's not my area of expertise, so I'm quoting current (to 01 Apr 15) policy docs.

Cheers  :salute:
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Offline 3VPspecialty

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Earnings Loss Benefit Question.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2016, 23:51:26 »
With the proposed increase from 75% to 90% how does that affect those already on the program?
When / If the increase in pay is approved does it include everyone? So if I'm already at 75% do I automatically get increased? Or do you have to be assessed and approved for the higher percentage??

Thanks!

Offline blackberet17

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit Question.
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2016, 11:11:54 »
The Government announcement was vague on the details about the increase, far as I can find in reading the announcements and the bill in parliament.

There is nothing yet drafted and available from VAC following the Government announcement, most likely because the bill is still not through final reading, etc. If and when the bill passes (I think it's Bill C-12, but don't quote me), then policy will be developed/drafted and released.
« Ne vous occupez pas d'eux; ils ne savent pas tirer. [...] Il y a des ennemis devant nous, derrière nous et sur nos flancs. Il ne reste qu'une place sans danger, soit vers l'objectif. » Paul Triquet, VC

Offline Nudibranch

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit Question.
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2016, 18:14:09 »
BILL C-12: An Act to amend the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. It had its first reading in March.

Full text of bill here, if interested:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&DocId=8168978

Offline RobA

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit Question.
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2016, 21:14:15 »
It appears to come into effect Oct 1 and yes, I'm sure it will be done for everyone automatically. You'll just get more on your end Oct pay

Offline 3VPspecialty

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit Question.
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2016, 21:39:37 »
It appears to come into effect Oct 1 and yes, I'm sure it will be done for everyone automatically. You'll just get more on your end Oct pay


Thanks, this is what I was looking for.

Offline Teager

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Re: Earnings Loss Benefit Question.
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2016, 11:19:10 »
Guess there still not getting it. This is probably a sign of things to come and really not a surprise.


Quote
Ottawa imposes unequal increases in benefits for injured veterans
GLORIA GALLOWAY
OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, May 31, 2016 9:48PM EDT
Last updated Wednesday, Jun. 01, 2016 7:33AM EDT

The federal government is increasing the amount it pays to veterans who are so incapacitated they can no longer work, but many of those who currently make the least will get raises of just a couple percentage points while those at higher ranks will get 20 per cent more.

The unequal adjustments are part of a deliberate attempt by the Liberal government to ensure that those who are discharged from the lower ranks after being injured in the line of duty make less money than soldiers who are still actively serving.

To do that, the government will essentially demote some veterans to a rank below the one they held when they left the military – something that the veterans say is not only unfair but humiliating.


“And they are only doing it for the bottom ranks,” said Don Leonardo, the founder of the advocacy group Veterans Canada who, because he retired 20 years ago as a master corporal, will be among those affected. “Why would you pick on the most vulnerable?”

The Earnings Loss Benefit pays those veterans who are “totally and permanently incapacitated” 75 per cent of what they were making on the day they were released from the Armed Forces until they reach the age of 65.

In 2011, the then-Conservative government said no one who is entitled to that benefit would receive less than $40,000 annually, which was then 75 per cent of the salary of a basic corporal. That provided a substantial boost, especially to those who were injured in places such as Bosnia, Somalia and Yugoslavia and who were discharged at salaries far below what their successors were making as a result of significant raises in the late 1990s and over the past decade.

But for years, veterans advocates and politicians have said 75 per cent is insufficient.

The Liberals promised during last year’s election campaign to invest an additional $40-million annually to provide the permanently injured veterans with 90 per cent of their prerelease salary. It was a commitment they kept in their first budget, with changes that are slated to take effect in October if the budget legislation passes without amendments. But there is a hitch.

The Liberals say the minimum payments will be based on the current salary of a senior private, even if the disabled soldier left the military at a higher rank.

The government says on its website that this is being done in the interest of fairness. “To do otherwise,” it explains, “would mean that some veterans receiving the benefits could be making more than their comrades on active duty.”

When asked to explain why it is so important to ensure that injured veterans do not make the equivalent of serving members of the Canadians Forces, the Veterans Affairs officials did not offer a direct response. “What is of paramount importance is that injured veterans have access to benefits that allow them to focus on their recovery,” they said in an e-mail.

Those former members of the Armed Forces who were discharged at salaries higher than the $49,449 that is currently paid to a senior private – the majors, the colonels, the generals and even the high-ranking non-commissioned officers – will not be affected by the rank reductions. Their Earnings Loss Benefits payments will climb by 20 per cent under the government’s plan, which, in some cases, will amount to tens of thousands of dollars.

But those at lower ranks, the mid-range non-commissioned officers who departed the military decades ago, and the reservists who were paid by the day, will get much less.

Mr. Leonardo, who was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder related to his service as a peacekeeper in the former Yugoslavia, and who makes $42,426 annually through the Earnings Loss Benefit, will get an increase of less than 5 per cent.

“If you can’t provide for your family, eventually you are going to give up,” said Mr. Leonardo. Politicians “keep talking about mental health. Well, if you can’t provide for your family, why would you even stick around. You feel like you’re not worth anything any more and they demote you a rank to private. It just gets worse and worse and worse.”

Veterans advocate Sean Bruyea said one of the harshest aspects of the government’s plan for veterans such as Mr. Leonardo is the loss of esteem.

“I know intellectually this is humiliating,” said Mr. Bruyea, a former captain and military intelligence officer who was also diagnosed with PTSD. “What’s Don’s value as a Canadian civilian now? His value is his memory of being honoured by Veterans Affairs. How do they honour him? They say, ‘We are going to demote you for no reason whatsoever other than to save money.’”

Cathay Wagantall, a Conservative MP who is her party’s deputy critic for Veterans Affairs, said she is trying to amend the budget bill to protect the lower-income disabled veterans. “I don’t have an answer for why they are choosing to do it this way,” Ms. Wagantall said of the government.

Irene Mathyssen, the NDP critic, said it is clear that the higher ranked officers will benefit the most. “And those poor guys at the bottom get very, very small increases,” Ms. Mathyssen said. “When you start to crunch the numbers, it’s Liberal voodoo.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-imposes-unequal-increases-to-benefits-for-injured-veterans/article30227709/?cmpid=rss1&google_editors_picks=true