Author Topic: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers  (Read 39714 times)

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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2014, 11:16:17 »
I thought it was another acronym similar to the American acronym PCU (Pre-commissioning Unit) to refer to warships that have not been commissioned? (E.g. PCU Zumwalt)

You thought correctly:

Quote
In Australia, the prefix NUSHIP is used to denote ships that have yet to be commissioned into the fleet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_prefix

Quote
The ship name “NUSHIP” is used in Australia, to categorize the noncommissioned vessels in the fleet.
http://www.marineinsight.com/marine/marine-news/headline/what-are-ship-prefixes-for-naval-and-merchant-vessels/

Offline RDBZ

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Offline S.M.A.

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Aussie LHD crippled after electrical meltdown during sea trials
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2014, 23:36:13 »
Problems already hampering the ship before commissioning...

Quote
Brand new $1.5 billion pride of Australia's fleet crippled after electrical meltdown during sea trials

[dailymail.co.uk]
5 June 2014


A source said the first issue occurred when the electric powered pods at the stern of the ship were operated independently in low-speed mode when the ship was travelling at high speed, when they should have been operated in tandem, which caused serious vibrations across the ship.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 23:47:53 by S.M.A. »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 11:30:37 »
Well we had the CCGS Henry Larson down for 6 months after a electric meltdown during sea trials.

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2014, 19:02:15 »
Hello all,

Been a keen reader of the forum for ages, and finally have something to contribute.

First, the above story about the Canberra being crippled, et al, is a lot of nonsense. There were some issues with the azipods and, as you would expect, she returned to there yard with a list of defects to be corrected before second sea trials. Nothing to get the vapors about.....

On the F-35B front, to date only two articles have appeared by people who have primary knowledge of both the ships and the aircraft. The stories about av fuel bunker and magazine capacity being inadequate are 100 per cent garbage. They have the same capacity as the lead Spanish ship, Juan Carlos Primo. And Hades will be a hockey rink before an F-35B or V-22 melts an LHD flight deck.

Attached in PDF format are pages with a relevant article from the July issue of a reputable Australian av magazine, not otherwise available online. The journalist has excellent sources. Worth reading.

Also, this small but fact-based piece from an Australian think tank is well worth a look. Here  -  http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/author/steve-george/

Hopefully these two articles mark the beginning of fact based reporting and discussion, and the end of woefully ill-informed armchair expertise by stale and painfully ignorant blowhards. That includes some Australian staff college lecturers who are way too fond of their own voices and unapologetic about their own technical ignorance.

I hope these two articles are of help to those here who are following the story.

Again, it's great forum here - my compliments and respect to all. Please believe me with that, as I run an Oz av forum, and fully appreciate some of the difficulties of keeping a forum going ahead on an even keel. Keep it up.  :)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 19:19:20 by OTR1 »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2014, 11:11:13 »
Interesting the RAN is growing short on supply ships, maybe we can build you a Berlin Class one after we finish our own.... :nod:

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2014, 15:24:32 »
The Oz government have shortlisted the new supply ship to two designs: the Navantia Cantabria-class (approx 20,000 tonnes) and the MARS Aegir 26 (approx 26,000 tonnes). The latter is a smaller version of the new RFAs for the Brits. Canberra recently stated that they will be built in either Spain or South Korea, not Oz. They're expediting this decision. RAN admiral Ray Griggs recently recommneded the brief article at the link as a good summary of how it's going.

 http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Australias-supply-ships-serious-about-success-024674/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2014, 12:31:21 »
Handover to the RAN and commissioning  in a few months...

Navy Recognition

Quote
Royal Australian Navy LHD Canberra Completes Sea Trials as Crew Tests Landing Craft
 
NUSHIP Canberra, the first of two Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) ships being built for the Australian Defence Force, returned from her final contractor sea trials before delivery to the Australian Government. The ship returned to BAE Systems Williamstown today after being away on sea trials for two weeks.
        
Final contractor trials involve testing of the combat and communication systems along with some platform systems trials.

Aboard NUSHIP Canberra for the final contractor trials were BAE Systems and DMO project personnel along with a number of Royal Australian Navy (RAN) officers and sailors who will crew the ship once delivered, as well as BAE Systems subcontractors Navantia, Saab, L3 and Teekay.
             
In the meantime, Canberras' new Landing Craft were tested by RAN personnel on Sydney Harbour and local waterways.

The LHD Landing Craft (LLC) are scheduled to be handed over to Canberra in the coming months. In the mean time, the Canberra teams who will be driving, crewing and maintaining the vessels are undertaking further contractor training based at HMAS Waterhen.

Designed and built by Navantia, the LCM-1E landing crafts are the same type used by the Spanish Navy. With a length of 23.3 meters and a breadth of 6.4 meters they can reach 20 knots and have a range of 190 miles. They are fitted with two water jet propulsion units giving the LLCs a longer range, outstanding manoeuvrability, increase speed and more power compared to current in-service ADF landing craft.
 
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2014, 16:21:49 »
Indeed.

After handover to RAN, the plan is for +/- 12 months to reach IOC and then another +/- 12 months for FOC.

Am advised that the just-completed sea trials went very well.

Pic from BAE attached showing Canberra, now with her warpaint.  :)

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2014, 16:12:22 »
FYI confirmed handover date to RAN is September 25, and due to commission on November 28.

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2014, 17:21:05 »
FYI confirmed handover date to RAN is September 25, and due to commission on November 28.

Source link please? Unless you're... in an organization that would be privy to that information?
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2014, 15:27:55 »
Well, SMA, my name appears in the 'thanks' bit at the very end of this Defence White Paper submission. Is that enough?

www.defence.gov.au/Whitepaper/docs/082-Baddams.pdf

Folks here please take note that the linked document is 4,800 words long, so it may be an idea to be caffeinated before having a look. Also note that thanks to the hopeless desk wallah at the Dept of Defence the formatting got stuffed-up, and so page 17 is now blank: just scroll from page 16 to 18 and you'll be OK. It's a detailed account of the F-35B/LHD question.

Fear not, I shan't post any more on that subject here, as this probably marks the end of people's interest and patience.

Some RAN pics attached of the Canberra entering Sydney the other day. Commissions on November 28.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 16:11:05 by OTR1 »

Online Chris Pook

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2014, 19:26:11 »
Jeez,

Buggers off just when we were getting used to him.

Must be his turn to buy. :)
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline S.M.A.

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Australia mulls fielding F35Bs on its Canberra class LHDs
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2014, 01:46:14 »
Australia mulls fielding F-35Bs on its upcoming Canberra class LHDs:

Defense Industry Daily

Quote
Should Australia field F-35B STOVL fighters on its Canberra Class LHD ships?

Nov 17/14: F-35Bs? The Australian Strategic Policy Institute issues a paper that looks at the viability of F-35Bs on Australia’s 2 Canberra Class LHDs, which are based on a Spanish design that expected to carry the fighters at some point. Australia is looking at this possibility, as part of its 2015 White Paper.

“Overall, this report concludes that the benefits would be marginal at best, wouldn’t be commensurate with the costs and other consequences for the ADF, and would potentially divert funding and attention from more valuable force structure enhancements.”

Their rationale is that operating the Canberra Class in escort carrier mode would be vast overkill for most missions, which are better served by the planned combination of EC665 Tiger ARH and NH90 helicopters. On the flip side, “…if the adversary were such as to merit strike operations against targets distant from Australia using the STOVL option, it would be quite capable of posing significant risk to the maritime strike force being used to project power in this way.” Removing much of the ship’s amphibious capability in exchange for 10-14 F-35Bs isn’t seen as enough airpower to both protect the ship, and offer useful offensive help.

(...SNIPPED)

« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 01:51:48 by S.M.A. »
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
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Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2014, 11:13:49 »
That very document by ASPI is not much of an advertisement for their scholarship.

From beginning to end there's barely a single, easily-ascertained fact they got right.

Easiest example regards ATC: they maintain that the LHDs can't do STOVL ATC.

Um......if you can do helo ATC, then you can do STOVL ATC.

If they mean fighter controllers, they'll be in the Hobart destroyers and Wedgetail AWACS.

Further, the LHDs can actually accommodate embarked fighter controllers if so desired.

As for reduced helo a/c if F-35s are embarked, doing as the USN/MC do with the Wasps do - as in all day, every day, as I write this - with permanent deck parking rotations and only one hangar bay optimised for fast air rather disproves this this nonsense.

That pair really, really, have zero primary knowledge of this, and would have been well served by consulting some UK and US sources before sharing their learned conclusions with the rest of us.

Ho hum.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2014, 11:30:47 »
Easiest example regards ATC: they maintain that the LHDs can't do STOVL ATC.

Um......if you can do helo ATC, then you can do STOVL ATC.

Quite true. However, one of the discussion I have not seen is wether or not the Canberra's deck is rated for the F-35B.

In theory, of course, if your deck can take a heavy helicopter, it'll take the weight of an F-35B. However, just like a clearing in the woods, the deck must have the "heat resistance" for an F-35B. Here is the analogy: I can land an helicopter in a clearing that is full of dry wood chips and grass. It does not matter. That same clearing will be set on fire by an F-35 doing a vertical landing, though, because you are exhausting the gas turbines straight down onto the clearing from 5 feet above. Same goes for the decks of LHD/A's. They have to have a heat rating sufficient to "absorb" the heat generated by the F-35B's gas turbines without degrading or transmitting that heat to the compartment just below. Not all ships rated for helos are capable of this. I don't know where the Canberra's stand on that point.

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2014, 11:52:23 »
A good point.  :)

Yes, the LHDs, as delivered, have flight decks rated for STOVL heat and loads. None of the fast jet spaces or engineering were changed from the Spanish lead ship, which was specifically designed for F-35 ops.

Also, sometime after FOC is achieved, about two years from now, Thermion is more-or-less already approved to replace extant flight deck surfacing.

Apart from helping with heat effects, it's also very, very low maintenance: current coatings require much patching.

Neither the USN/MC or RN consider the F-35B deck heat matter to be much of an issue.

And yes, I know there are lots of reports out there - especially with Bill Sweetman's name attached - that claim doom and gloom and melting decks.

To that I say.........yeah, well, everyone's entitled to their opinions.  :P

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2014, 14:08:55 »
I didn't have any worries about melting the deck, but rather for the maintenance requirements from the "abuse"  compared to helos, and for the transmission of heat under.

I had no worries about the US and the Brits: The American ships decks can almost be considered armoured and the Brits, well they are building aircraft carrier specifically for F-35B's, so I would imagine its all been taken care of.

Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2014, 13:32:55 »
I've sent off your question to a friend with better specific knowledge of that, and await a reply.  :)

A rather lethal riposte to much of the recent published rubbish just went up on the Aust Naval Institute site. Mucho grande fun reading, here  -  http://navalinstitute.com.au/f-35-strike-fighters-from-the-canberra-class/

Kirkhill, I'll happily buy the beer when we stumble into the same pub at the same time.  :nod:

NB: Linked edited to correct.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 15:24:27 by OTR1 »

Offline Privateer

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2014, 13:46:53 »
OTR1, your link is broken.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2014, 14:29:55 »
Privateer, go to the link.

When the error message occurs, go on "Archive" at the top.

Then, select "F-35 for the Canberra's?" in the "recent articles" section on the right. It is currently the number one article.

Offline Colin P

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Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2014, 15:23:32 »
Colin, yup, they're doing intensive media/PR stuff for the next few days. Most of the ship's brass are getting hoarse from answering the same questions, over and over.......

Privateer, thanks for the SNAFU advice. Not sure what happened, but am attaching a PDF of the article here.  :)

Offline Colin P

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Re: Australia's Canberra class LHDs/assault carriers
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2014, 17:31:11 »
It would be interesting if the US were to subsidize ships like this to be operated by Allied navies, have the aviation side completely compatible with US comms and procedures and the hangers and deck capable of handling the F35C. The US could bounce around a squadron of aircraft that could land and operate off of the ship in joint operations. The agreements and ROE’s would be harder to write than the operation side I suspect, but certainly a way to increase western power projection and spreading that responsibility around a bit more.

Offline Retired AF Guy

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