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8 Jan 2020: UKR Airliner shot down in Tehran

The Bread Guy

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NavyShooter said:
OK...I have 6 more photos to go with this and the forum won't let me post them for some reason.
PM inbound
 

The Bread Guy

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NavyShooter said:
I found this on Facebook this morning.

A rather...detailed look at the situation that seems to make sense.

NS
And here's the rest of the pix ....
 

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OldSolduer

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CBC Newsworld - I'm a bit slow this morning - is reporting the Iranian government is in full denial mode. Not really surprising.
 

The Bread Guy

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Hamish Seggie said:
CBC Newsworld - I'm a bit slow this morning - is reporting the Iranian government is in full denial mode. Not really surprising.
Yup ...
Iran’s top aviation official says the results of a probe into the crash of a Ukrainian passenger plane in Tehran will show what has happened, but Iran is certain no missile hit the aircraft.  The remarks were made by Ali Abedzadeh, the head of Iran's Aviation Organization, during a press conference held in Tehran Friday after countries with a stake in crisis-hit Boeing claimed that the airliner had probably been brought down by a missile ....

A few more tidbits ...
 

LittleBlackDevil

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I just saw this today:

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEG4OfnzaNJsS-5tL_ttkanIqFwgEKg8IACoHCAowjuuKAzCWrzwwqIQY?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

Seems pretty compelling. The article does a good job of matching stuff up to connect the dots that this does indeed appear to be a video of the flight in question being shot down.
 

The Bread Guy

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And, pulling from the "MH17 Shootdown over UKR" playbook, the "show us your int that we know you'll never show, allowing us to ask 'whatcha hiding?' " play ...
Iran on Friday denied Western allegations that one of its own missiles downed a Ukrainian jetliner that crashed outside Tehran, and called on the U.S. and Canada to share any information they have on the crash, which killed all 176 people on board.

Western leaders said the plane appeared to have been unintentionally hit by a surface-to-air missile just hours after Iran launched around a dozen ballistic missiles at two U.S. bases in Iraq to avenge the killing of its top general in an American airstrike last week.

“What is obvious for us, and what we can say with certainty, is that no missile hit the plane,” Ali Abedzadeh, head of Iran’s national aviation department, told a press conference.

“If they are really sure, they should come and show their findings to the world” in accordance with international standards, he added ...
 

gryphonv

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milnews.ca said:
And, pulling from the "MH17 Shootdown over UKR" playbook, the "show us your int that we know you'll never show, allowing us to ask 'whatcha hiding?' " play ...

It seems there is no way Iran will ever admit this now. All their actions up to now has been looking like a cover up. Delay and deny.

They dont even have plausible deniability at this point. This actually may be enough to stir enough resentment to the regime within the Iranian people. They are not stupid nor are they isolated from the news around the world.
 

Cloud Cover

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What are the chances that every single person at that SAM site has been summarily dealt with. With this regime would they not liquidate every loose thread they can find?
 

gryphonv

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CloudCover said:
What are the chances that every single person at that SAM site has been summarily dealt with. With this regime would they not liquidate every loose thread they can find?

I was thinking this as well, or at the very least to take the narrative it was some rogue operator and make a very public trial on punishing them.
 

The Bread Guy

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UKR's Security Service considering two theories (original news release in Ukrainian - translation via Google):
The SBU is considering two priority versions of the reasons that led to the plane crash of the PS752 flight in Iran: the first - a missile hit, the second - a terrorist attack. This was reported by the Head of the Security Service of Ukraine Ivan Bakanov during a meeting of the SBU special working group, which took place on January 10 under his chairmanship.

“Indeed, the version of the missile hit by the TOR anti-aircraft missile system is attracting the greatest public attention today. However, it is sufficient to open the SAM's instruction manual to raise a number of questions that require additional answers. In particular, we are talking about the range of the rocket, the nuances of managing the complex and more. All issues are being processed now, ”Ivan Bakanov said.

As for the version of the terrorist attack, the SBU also carefully examines and analyzes this information. “The topic is too important to draw any hasty conclusions. I can assure that we will necessarily inform the society of all objective, verified information, ”Ivan Bakanov emphasized.

The Head of Service also thanked the representatives of the Office of the President, the NSDC, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Foreign Intelligence Service, other authorities and international partners who, since the first minutes of the tragedy, have been involved in its investigation. Ivan Bakanov reminded that a separate SBU investigation team was formed, which is now effectively operating in Iran. Representatives of the Service attended meetings and meetings of the President with international partners.

Separately, the SBU Chairman called on citizens to be more cautious about the dissemination of unverified data on the tragedy.

“In today's new reality, when social networks generate new competitive meanings and ideas for all of humanity, they often and densely replace government institutions and law enforcement agencies, it is important not to learn to think and draw conclusions based on facts, not on fakes. We are all related to each other and together we will be responsible for the fake findings. We need to be patient and wait for the results of the investigation by the evidence-based competent authorities, ”Ivan Bakanov added.
 

OldSolduer

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CloudCover said:
What are the chances that every single person at that SAM site has been summarily dealt with. With this regime would they not liquidate every loose thread they can find?

Again I would not be surprised.
 

Jarnhamar

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gryphonv said:
I was thinking this as well, or at the very least to take the narrative it was some rogue operator and make a very public trial on punishing them.

About the same chances the black box gets put on the same shelf as the Dave Epstein security camera footage.
 

The Bread Guy

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Stand by ...
Iran will announce Saturday the reason for the crash of the Ukrainian airliner that was flying to Kiev from Tehran earlier this week, the semi-official Fars news agency reported Friday, citing an informed source.

The announcement will take place after a meeting of a commission focused on air accidents but the report did not provide any information on what kind of information had been collected.
:pop:
 

The Bread Guy

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An interesting take (archive.org link) shared by a site that self-identifies as "inspired by the philosophy and strategic outlook of Lyndon LaRouche and the International Schiller Institute" ...
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s recent claim that Ukraine’s flight PS752 was shot down by Iranian rockets according to “secret intelligence” has provoked the Iranian government to respond by calling out the bluff which has spread like wildfire in the recent 48 hours.

On Wednesday, Trudeau stated: “We have intelligence from multiple sources, including our allies and our own intelligence. The evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by an Iranian surface-to-air missile. This may well have been unintentional.” Canadians represented 63 of the 176 victims who died in the crash and so the words of the Canadian government obviously carries more emotional weight than other nations in this matter.

Trudeau’s claims, (along with those made minutes earlier by the UK’s Boris Johnson to the same effect) represent the first serious attempt to legitimize the gossip which first originated by anonymous sources within the US State Department hours after the crash occurred. After making these remarks, Trudeau stated that he had shared this secret intelligence with the government of Ukraine as well as the Dutch government that had conducted the investigation into the 2014 Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 which crashed over Eastern Ukraine and which recent information from Ukrainian whistle-blower Lt. Col. Vasily Prozorov proved was actually caused by the Azov-connected Poroshenko government working alongside British Intelligence.

While sufficient evidence has not yet come to light in the current case, the parallels between this week’s tragedy and MH17 cannot be ignored.

Iran’s Foreign Minister Ali Rabiei responded to US, British and Canadian assertions of “secret evidence” by inviting all countries who have lost citizens in the disaster to come to Tehran in order to investigate the black box (which they rightfully refused to hand over to US officials). Rabiei stated on Thursday: “All these reports are a psychological warfare against Iran. All those countries whose citizens were aboard the plane can send representatives and we urge Boeing to send its representative to join the process of investigating the black box.”

Iran stated that all evidence gathered should be “published and publicized to the world.”
Also being shared by pro-Russian, anti-Western fan-boy sites.
 

The Bread Guy

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Compare & contrast leader statements ...

This from PMJT ...
Today (10 Jan 2019), Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, to discuss recent developments on the tragic Ukraine International Airlines plane crash.

The Prime Minister and the President agreed on the need for a full, credible, and complete investigation of the crash and discussed Canada’s continued support for the investigation. Both leaders highlighted the need for cooperation to build a complete picture of the event, so that all those who suffered losses can get the answers they deserve.

The Prime Minister and the President recommitted to working together during these difficult times.
... versus this from Ukraine's President presumably based on the same chat:
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau have discussed the situation on the investigation into the causes of the crash of the Ukrainian plane in Iran for the second time. The parties agreed that there should be a thorough approach to the study of information, as well as close cooperation of the international partners in data exchange.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he was in contact with numerous countries. In particular, he had a conversation with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on January 10 and met with representatives of the US and UK embassies in Ukraine. Ukrainian experts analyze the data received. All versions of the causes of the crash are considered possible.

The President of Ukraine confirmed that the Iranian party facilitated the investigation and provided access to the site of the plane crash, to the aircraft fragments and black boxes.

The parties agreed that speculation on the tragedy should be ceased and that an objective and comprehensive investigation should be facilitated in every possible way.

A further initial update on what's happening on the ground, via the UKR President's info-machine ...
Ukrainian experts who had arrived in Iran to take part in the investigation of the tragedy with the PS752 Ukraine International Airlines flight have been given access to the “black boxes”, plane debris and recordings of airport dispatchers' conversations with Ukrainian pilots, as stated by Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Vadym Prystaiko.

“We have faced full cooperation from the Iranian side. We have got access to both the details of the aircraft and the crash site, the police provide security,” the Foreign Minister said at a briefing at the Office of the President of Ukraine.

He noted that from the outset, local residents had access to the crash site, which hindered the investigation.

“Now our team has got access to the 'black boxes' and we are planning to begin reconstruction of negotiations shortly. Similarly we’ve got access to the recordings of conversations between the dispatchers of the flight control center at the airport in Tehran and our pilots,” Vadym Prystaiko added.

The Minister recalled that an emergency operations center on the issue of the air crash had been set up and the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine was in constant contact with the team in Tehran and was now trying to reconstruct the aircraft with the help of technical means.

The Minister noted that the debris, as well as body parts, are scattered over a large area, including settlements. Currently, Ukrainian specialists work in the area with the largest amount of debris, where the plane crashed.

The Foreign Minister stressed that the Iranian authorities coordinated their actions with the Ukrainian side, and there was no reason to speak about lack of cooperation.

“Our team continues to work. The artificial lighting was installed, the area was fenced, a hangar was allocated, where the aircraft is being gradually assembled. At the moment we observe the interaction necessary and sufficient for our specialists to draw conclusions,” the minister said.

He also said that the remnants of those killed in the plane crash had been sent to various hospitals in Tehran, and DNA profiling was now needed to identify the deceased Ukrainian citizens.

"It is very difficult to say how long it may take," Vadym Prystaiko noted.

According to the Minister, the Ukrainian expert group includes experts from all important areas who have experience in investigating aircraft crashes.

"These are very experienced people and we can rely on their knowledge," he said.

Vadym Prystaiko also reported that the Prosecutor General's Office had already sent requests for international legal assistance in the context of open criminal proceedings.

According to him, many versions of the causes of the plane crash are considered, but it is too early to draw conclusions.

“We are the country that has lost a plane, lost a crew, people - we are directly responsible for every word we say. We do not reject any version, we are not looking for a simpler or more diplomatic way,” he said.

The Foreign Minister informed that Ukraine was also initiating the establishment of an international coalition to investigate the UIA plane crash.

"Our main task is to find out the causes of this tragedy in a fair and impartial manner. If someone is to blame - to find the perpetrator,” he said.

“The main thing we want to convey to the relatives is our condolences. And the main thing that is important for them now, in our opinion, is the right to know what really happened to the plane,” Vadym Prystaiko added, expressing condolences to everyone whose relatives died as a result of the crash.
 

Ping Monkey

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Surprise, surprise...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/iran-says-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-jetliner-1.4762972
TEHRAN, IRAN -- Iran announced Saturday that its military `unintentionally' shot down a Ukrainian jetliner, killing all 176 aboard.
The statement came Saturday morning and blamed "human error" for the shootdown.
The jetliner, a Boeing 737 operated by Ukrainian International Airlines, went down on the outskirts of Tehran during takeoff just hours after Iran launched a barrage of missiles at U.S. forces.
Iran had denied for several days that a missile downed the aircraft. But then the U.S. and Canada, citing intelligence, said they believe Iran shot down the aircraft.
The plane, en route to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, was carrying 167 passengers and nine crew members from several countries, including 82 Iranians, at least 63 Canadians and 11 Ukrainians, according to officials.
 

FJAG

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FJAG said:
...
I'm just speculating here (like most folks), but I wouldn't be surprised at all if within the next 48 hours Iran admits that there was a missile mistakenly fired and blames it on the increased tensions with the US.

29 hours. It just seemed logical based on what was already out there. Unlike Russians who will deny forever regardless of how strong the evidence is.

:cheers:
 
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