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Aircrew coping as well or better than regular soldiers"

SupersonicMax

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What about the distance between a sniper and its target?  Pilots can kill considerably more people in 1 pass than an infantryman may kill in a career, but they don't seem to be affected by it to the same level that someone in a front line ground unit does.  I think that being detached from the action has a something to do.
 
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aesop081

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SupersonicMax said:
  I think that being detached from the action has a something to do.

Things are more detached and take on the form of a video game so-to-speak. I dont get to see the eyes of those i target, making very impersonal. The target is just a green dot or a line on a screen. Sometimes i catch a glimpse of the target itself but usualy not for long and rarely see people.
 

SupersonicMax

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You can't see people there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFMPMo7p90&feature=related
 
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aesop081

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SupersonicMax said:
You can't see people there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFMPMo7p90&feature=related

I know you are french but even you can understand the use of "i".

Overland operations being a comparatively less consuming task for me, i dont often get to see the persons being targeted. Even when i do, the detachment is still there. Its just something on a video screen.

In the maritime environment, if i see people before they blow up, its a cold day in hell.
 

SupersonicMax

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CDN Aviator said:
I know you are french but even you can understand the use of "i".

My point what that in today's environment and especially with the kit we have on our aircraft, it's not uncommon (more than sometimes) to clearly see people prior to and after impact.
 

HItorMiss

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You can seem them clearer and better with the TI on the LAV cannon then you can with any Sniper or Lightening pod...And guess what you can kill a whole lot more of them then with most bombs or Gun runs. Also who do you think sees the clear non video camera effects of any CAS mission I know it isn't the pilot.


Trust me on this Max.....
 
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aesop081

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SupersonicMax said:
My point what that in today's environment and especially with the kit we have on our aircraft, it's not uncommon (more than sometimes) to clearly see people prior to and after impact.

There are 3 aircraft in the CF that cary offensive weapons. 2 of them rarely ever see the actual target before it explodes and people die a pretty horrible death.

i'm more than aware of what the sniper pod can do..........i have much better resolution and range.
 

SupersonicMax

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BulletMagnet said:
You can seem them clearer and better with the TI on the LAV cannon then you can with any Sniper or Lightening pod...

Exactly my point...
 

zipperhead_cop

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SupersonicMax said:
You can't see people there?

Oh wow, you are so incredibly mentally superior to everyone who is a underling ground pounder.  Truly, your sweat must cure cancer  ::)  Maybe you should teach the sniper course? 
 
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aesop081

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zipperhead_cop said:
Oh wow, you are so incredibly mentally superior to everyone who is a underling ground pounder.  Truly, your sweat must cure cancer  ::)  Maybe you should teach the sniper course?

I beleive he was responding to me. Quite obviously, he did not understand what i was talking about.
 

HItorMiss

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Seriously maybe we are all misunderstanding each other here. Max can you clarify what it is you are trying to say because I for one am confused.

 

zipperhead_cop

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CDN Aviator said:
I beleive he was responding to me. Quite obviously, he did not understand what i was talking about.

Not at all.  Ultra Max seems to be suggesting that pilots (or maybe just him) are somehow better able to cope with their "death from above" than the guys on the ground.  Seems a bit ingenuous and denigrating to both combat pilots and snipers. 
Perhaps it's just me. 
 

SupersonicMax

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Allright, reference my first post....  The being physically far from a fight (while still participating in the fight) may have an influence on how someone will be affected mentally after.  Pilots and sniper have one thing in common: they are not close to the action.  Apparently they both are better able to cope with killing (the article clearly states that snipers do and I know many pilots that did and do not show signs of PTSD) They act from a distance, contrary to the front line unit fighting close(r) to the enemy. 

I was using pilots as an example of distance to relate to snipers.
 
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aesop081

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zipperhead_cop said:
Not at all.  Ultra Max seems to be suggesting that pilots (or maybe just him) are somehow better able to cope with their "death from above" than the guys on the ground.  Seems a bit ingenuous and denigrating to both combat pilots and snipers. 
Perhaps it's just me.

i dont think its a question of coping better , but one of being more detached from the results that the guy on the ground.

Wether we see people or not when we destroy something, its still just a dot on a screen............Snipers still can see the details of their targets....faces, expressions.......the distance is not that great comparatively.
 

midget-boyd91

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SupersonicMax said:
Allright, reference my first post....  The being physically far from a fight (while still participating in the fight) may have an influence on how someone will be affected mentally after.  Pilots and sniper have one thing in common: they are not close to the action.  Apparently they both are better able to cope with killing (the article clearly states that snipers do and I know many pilots that did and do not show signs of PTSD) They act from a distance, contrary to the front line unit fighting close(r) to the enemy. 

I was using pilots as an example of distance to relate to snipers.

A paramedic hopelessly giving medical treatment to a dying person everyday will be more likely to suffer PTSD than someone who stands down the road and watches what is happening.  From what I gather, you're talking about that kind of scenerio?
(And no, I'm not saying that the pilots stand down the road and just watch while those on the front do all the work)
 

SupersonicMax

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Yes, physical distance from the events, but more if 1 paramedic was giving care and the other standing 200m away. (similarity in training)
 

Illegio

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I think it's important to note, in the context of the study, that airmen do not have to worry about IEDs, rockets, mortars, ambushes and the like to the same extent that someone on the ground does. This *is* important to note, mind, as none of the top concerns or stressors in this study were related to killing anyone, but rather, knowing someone who'd been injured or killed, having a member of your unit become a casualty, etc...
 

SupersonicMax

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Illegio said:
I think it's important to note, in the context of the study, that airmen do not have to worry about IEDs, rockets, mortars, ambushes and the like to the same extent that someone on the ground does.

And I think we can say that being physically distant from the fight will "protect" you from all this (being a sniper or aircrew) to some extent.
 

Franko

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I get what Max is throwing down....it's Nintendo syndrome.

Seeing your target on a screen at distance gives you a mental "insulation/ distance" from the effects of your actions on the enemy, thus lessening the effect over time in the development of OSI/ PTSD.

I would think (and have talked to troops that have) shooting a guy in the face at 10' is a whole hell of alot different than shooting Taliban RPG teams at 75' with 120mm.

My 0.02 Afghanis worth.

Regards
 
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