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All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

Zoomie

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Access to The messes will be interesting…
How so? Mess activities are considered non-essential and thus require double vaccination proof. Mess exec ask members for their passports or CAF vax cards - pretty simple. If you don’t want to show proof - you don’t attend mess activities.
 

Zoomie

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Equally troubling in this thread is those people who are stating they don’t have MM access or it doesn’t work for them. I heavily recommend you get that figured out ASAP, PaCE is here and everyone should have filled out their JD and MAP already. Less than a week until your first debrief session.
 

Remius

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How so? Mess activities are considered non-essential and thus require double vaccination proof. Mess exec ask members for their passports or CAF vax cards - pretty simple. If you don’t want to show proof - you don’t attend mess activities.
That wasn’t my point. Messes will require proof of vaccination. Actual work locations will not. In some situations it won’t be hard to figure out who might not be vaccinated.
 

Remius

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Equally troubling in this thread is those people who are stating they don’t have MM access or it doesn’t work for them. I heavily recommend you get that figured out ASAP, PaCE is here and everyone should have filled out their JD and MAP already. Less than a week until your first debrief session.
You clearly have never worked in a PRes unit.
 

hattrick72

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Equally troubling in this thread is those people who are stating they don’t have MM access or it doesn’t work for them. I heavily recommend you get that figured out ASAP, PaCE is here and everyone should have filled out their JD and MAP already. Less than a week until your first debrief session.
ATL/BTL don't participate in PDR or PER process, unless this has changed under PACE?
 

hattrick72

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That wasn’t my point. Messes will require proof of vaccination. Actual work locations will not. In some situations it won’t be hard to figure out who might not be vaccinated.
I'm fully vaccinated and my wife is fully vaccinated, we are not getting our passports for anything on the civilian side. Any activity that requires one we will not partake in. The biggest reason for this is our kids will not be getting the vaccine until 2027 at the earliest. Once this is approved for kids, we will lose access to all those services anyways.

However, I will fill out the attestation and when it is time to fly for work purposes, I will have my "passport" ready for that. Mess dinners will probably be similar, unless the attestation is good enough for attendance.

So, who is at the mess and gym may not be the best indicator of who doesn't have it for sure.
 

PuckChaser

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That wasn’t my point. Messes will require proof of vaccination. Actual work locations will not. In some situations it won’t be hard to figure out who might not be vaccinated.
DND considers the messes and gyms as part of the workplace for harassment policy purposes, ergo they cannot ask for vaccine status. Only people that get asked are non-DND civilian associates.
 

brihard

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You clearly have never worked in a PRes unit.
No kidding. Outside of BOR/ HQ offices, my unit had three computers for the rifle company. Nobody below section 2ic would have any reason to go on one or even have a DWAN account.
 

Kilted

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If privacy were the concern, would we not be better using medical files as or system of record for this? They are much better secured from a privacy perspective than uploading the information on MonitorMASS for every clown to read.
And it's not like everyone in the unit will find out anyways. I've never had anything medical actually kept confidential. Between having to explain an injury to everyone of a higher rank who I came in contact with and everyone else who happened to be standing there at the time, there is no way to keep it secret. Which isn't surprising considering the amount of information about other people. Considering the fact that people are still accused of faking injuries and have to justify their medical limitations to every Tom, Dick, and Harry I don't think that keeping something like a vaccination confidential is a realistic expectation.
 

Kilted

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No kidding. Outside of BOR/ HQ offices, my unit had three computers for the rifle company. Nobody below section 2ic would have any reason to go on one or even have a DWAN account.
And those three computers belong to three specific people and no one else is allowed to use them, or they are behind locked doors no one has access to. Then there are people being told that they don't need a DWAN account because who ever is responsible doesn't want to do the work involved.
 

hattrick72

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Should the CAF pay to move someone who is released after refusing to deploy overseas because it's too dangerous?

DND considers the messes and gyms as part of the workplace for harassment policy purposes, ergo they cannot ask for vaccine status. Only people that get asked are non-DND civilian associates.
I believe bases are limiting access to the gym to vaccinated only.
 

Zoomie

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DND considers the messes and gyms as part of the workplace for harassment policy purposes, ergo they cannot ask for vaccine status. Only people that get asked are non-DND civilian associates.
There is zero direction that states that.

The CAF follows local provincial health orders - just like how we follow liquor license laws. If you attend the Mess in its capacity as a drinking establishment, you show your proof of vaccination. There’s no privacy laws being impacted here, you are aware that if you walk in the Mess you will be asked for proof - if you don’t want to show proof, you don’t walk in the Mess. I don’t get why this is such a complicated topic.
 

PuckChaser

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Thanks for the"shut up and do what you're told" answer, super helpful. Back to reality, workplaces are exempt vaccination proof requirements in Ontario. You're suggesting we've created Shrondingers Mess where they're both simultaneously a workplace for harassment purposes but not a workplace for vaccine mandates. If you cant see how stupid that sounds, I can't help you any further.
 

hattrick72

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Everybody in the CAF will have some interaction under PaCE - as briefed by DMCPG on Wednesday.
Thank you for the heads up, I'll be waiting for direction to come down to me through email as it filters through the different chains.

Hopefully I still get a pay cheque come November 15th if some units are more latent than others.
 

Jarnhamar

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The latest email I had regarding mess's on my base and proof of vaccination stated DND military and civilian members are not required to show proof of vaccination for official and work related events (I recently attended a mess event and was not required to show proof of vaccination).

Email goes on to state anyone going to the mess as a part of a private event such as a wedding had to show proof of vaccination, whether they were civilian or military.
 

Navy_Pete

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ATL/BTL don't participate in PDR or PER process, unless this has changed under PACE?
ATL do participate in PERs; you get an exemption for the relevant time period if it runs over the majority of the period or a PER for the portion of the reporting period you aren't on the ATL. BTL pers may not get a PER due to rank, but you are still supposed to keep div notes and give feedback via PDR if they are doing OJT; and otherwise they are covered under course reports.
 
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