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All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

reveng

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mariomike said:
Canadians fought alongside Americans.

It's not about the quality of our soldiers or their valour (demonstrated time and time again) - the problems are within the the political class and the masses they control. I believe our current leader's father avoided WW2 and was pretty proud about the fact he was doing so. Anyways not really on topic, so I'll drop it.
 

daftandbarmy

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Hamish Seggie said:
I guess no one in your family or friends circle  has COVID. Your judgements are harsh and at odds with the majority on here. Have a good day.

The other issue is, of course, if we can't keep old people from dying from this virus (a largely immobile, concentrated, already over served by the health care sector population) how will we fare when (not 'if') a virus comes along that is far more virulent and a serious threat to all ages, everywhere?
 

Weinie

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daftandbarmy said:
The other issue is, of course, if we can't keep old people from dying from this virus (a largely immobile, concentrated, already over served by the health care sector population) how will we fare when (not 'if') a virus comes along that is far more virulent and a serious threat to all ages, everywhere?

Not very well. Think Walking Dead, without the zombies.
 

Remius

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PMedMoe said:
Well then I guess my father, siblings and I are hypocrites. After my mother had a series of strokes, she had to be put in a care home so she could be properly looked after.  No one in my family was medically trained (or even physically able at the time) to take care of her hygiene needs, among other things.  Let's just say I am glad that both of my parents have passed away.

Fine, go see your loved ones.  Can you guarantee that if you get COVID, you'll only pass it on to family members and no one else??

You know what the biggest problem is?  Some people are just selfish.  You're right about one thing; many people are bitching about not being able to do something that they wouldn't have done (or even wanted to do) before COVID hit.

Quoted for truth. 

I guess I’m a hypocrite too since my father in law has advanced Parkinson’s and actually needs things like you know, care and such. He isn’t there because we want him there.  He has to be there.

 

Remius

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HiTechComms said:
Well in a world where hard choices need to be made. Benefit cost analysis. I hate making Moral arguments because morals are just like beauty, they are in the eye of the beholder.

I think the WAR analogy is quite appropriate.

War = Do we sacrifice young to possibly stop greater harm?
Covid = Do we sacrifice the old and feeble to possible stop greater harm?

My family has lived passed First war, 2nd War, Hitler, Stalin, Years of communist occupation and uprisings. Now your telling people, you cannot see your loved ones because they might get sick and die? What happens if they want to? Isn't euthanasia legal in Canada?

My grandmother is almost 90 and she ended up in hospital on unrelated illness and she ended up being isolated for 5 weeks. She had no contact, she was distraught but she made it. I pay for the caretakers of my grandparents and it was their choice that if they get sick they will not call doctors or medical help. They want to die on their own terms. They still live on their own.

Ironically Canadians scream morally virtue about saving the vulnerable, yet the same people dumped their loved ones into LTR and barely visit. Where have the bulk of deaths occurred? If anything the State did a good job killing the vulnerable by putting sick back into LTR to save and ration the healthcare. Healthcare that Canadians believe is a right.. (Positive rights are an asinine idea). IMHO any one that dumps their loved ones in an LTR don't care and are hypocrites when it comes to protecting the vulnerable. I have family that work in LTR and barely any one visits these people before all of this started and now every one is outraged because Nana might die. Don't get me started on elder abuse.

Look at the percentages and stats.. LTR almost account for 80% of deaths. The average LTR stay is 2.5 years and that's before COVID. Any illness or injury is pretty well much a possible ender for people in LTR.

As some one that immigrated to Canada from a Socialist Utopia, I have noticed that Canadians are far more likely and voluntarily are willing to give up their own freedoms and rights in order to feel safe. I worked in Canadian elections and trust me when I say this, 60% of this country would willingly vote them selves into communism.

Western civilization is slowly descending into moral tyranny. Well at least I have a dual citizenship and can leave if I have too, can you say the same?

Does the government exist to protect people for them selves or people hurting other people?

Does the state have any right to tell anyone what they can do and what risks they want to voluntarily take?

*shrug*

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make but a few things about what you said.

1) you have a fundemental misunderstanding about Canadian society.  People aren’t willing to temporarily suspend their freedoms because they want to feel safe.  They are willing to do it to KEEP OTHERS safe.

2) you aren’t the first dual citizen to use canadian citizenship as a convenience.  When it’s tough they leave and when they want something they come back.  I accept the rules of the game but I don’t have to like the players.  By all means if you don’t like the rules feel free to exercise your right to leave.  That’s the beauty of our country.  People can come and go.

3). I’ve seen in other threads you are in the final stages of the recruiting stages.  Congrats so far.  But just  a friendly comment that if you don’t like the gvt telling you what to do and having your free will curtailed something tells me you won’t like the military much.  Food for thought.

Cheers.
 

Weinie

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PMedMoe said:
You know what the biggest problem is?  Some people are just selfish.  You're right about one thing; many people are bitching about not being able to do something that they wouldn't have done (or even wanted to do) before COVID hit.

True dat.

No one wants to be compelled to take a sh%t in the woods, but woe when you tell them they can't. Then you will have a line up 1000 people long at the nearest tree, demanding the right to squat and that the government gives them birch bark to wipe.
 

HiTechComms

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PMedMoe said:
Well then I guess my father, siblings and I are hypocrites. After my mother had a series of strokes, she had to be put in a care home so she could be properly looked after.  No one in my family was medically trained (or even physically able at the time) to take care of her hygiene needs, among other things.  Let's just say I am glad that both of my parents have passed away.

Fine, go see your loved ones.  Can you guarantee that if you get COVID, you'll only pass it on to family members and no one else??

You know what the biggest problem is?  Some people are just selfish.  You're right about one thing; many people are bitching about not being able to do something that they wouldn't have done (or even wanted to do) before COVID hit.

If it were possible to visit them I would. Flying is very restrictive. My extended family visits and I financially support them. My grandparents also except the fact that they are old and frail. They know that they have not much time left and they rather spend as much time with their loved ones as they can. If you want to isolate your loved ones or vice versa that is entirely YOUR choice, but please understand that you  are not under any position to dictate terms to others. We (as in I and our family take care of our own), if you want to send your loved ones into LTR that is fine its your and loved ones choice. My condolences on your loss of your parents but I will spend as much time with mine before I cannot, our family dynamics are different then yours.

As for guarantees, there is no such thing.. Can you guarantee me that you will not get a speeding ticket ever?, Medical error will not kill you in the hospital?, or when you are deployed as part of CAF that you will not get injured or killed?. There are only two guarantees in life; DEATH and TAXES.

Again I am an immigrant I grew up under a communist boot and I refuse to kow tow to moral tyrants. You do you and I will do me, but don't think it gives you the right to dictate terms to me (which you are not, I am stating this as to the State Tyranny). We are vastly different and I appreciate others peoples opinions and situations and I understand limitations of life but far to often I see family unceremoniously dumped in LTR until they die as it has happened in mine.

Lastly internet forums and digital media has no room for nuance. I don't know your situation and you don't know mine.

As for those trying to argue "what if" situations about an actual deadly pandemic happening? You are just shifting goal posts, and not only that, we don't even know what the societal implications are of this pandemic are and trying to think of a vastly more negative thing "what if" scenario is beyond silly. If this pandemic was actually deadly with a 20% mortality rate then yes I would agree with draconian measures but due the fact it is not deadly and people willy nilly giving up their rights as humans and citizens is just stupid. Heck "what if" Joe Biden trips and launches all nukes and starts ww3.

As a general observation in society: If you need to be told on how to behave as a respectful and courteous human being towards others then you probably are already a POS.
 

mariomike

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HiTechComms said:
As for guarantees, there is no such thing..

Only guarantee is people are going to get sick from Covid, and some are going to die. Until enough people get vaccinated, best we can do is try to "flatten the curve".

As a retired person, I follow the advice of medical professionals as best I can. I realise that may be easier for me than for others.

What I don't get is people not even making an effort. Not for themselves, or others. Sometimes to the point where our police have to get involved. Putting themselves, and their families, at risk.

Good luck with your DEO application, by the way.

 

PMedMoe

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HiTechComms said:
our family dynamics are different then yours.

You make a lot of assumptions. 

HiTechComms said:
As for guarantees, there is no such thing.. Can you guarantee me that you will not get a speeding ticket ever?, Medical error will not kill you in the hospital?, or when you are deployed as part of CAF that you will not get injured or killed?.

None of those scenarios involve an extremely contagious virus that can make people ill and is potentially fatal.

But yeah, "you do you" and I hope your (and other's) disregard of emergency orders doesn't keep affecting the rest of us.  But it will.

Too many people are mistaking inconvenience for tyranny.  ::)
 

Infanteer

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The stuff about tyranny is silly and full of hyperbole.  People need to recognize that there is a line where personal liberty ends and social responsibility begins.  That's how civil society works.
 

The Bread Guy

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HiTechComms said:
... I pay for the caretakers of my grandparents ...
So it's OK for you to use other means when you can't personally take care of your loved ones ...
HiTechComms said:
... any one that dumps their loved ones in an LTR don't care and are hypocrites when it comes to protecting the vulnerable ...
... but not others?
Infanteer said:
... there is a line where personal liberty ends and social responsibility begins.  That's how civil society works.
QFTT
 

daftandbarmy

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Yup, anyone who owns or works in retail is pretty much scr&wed right now. And the Zombies are after them too.

Gub-Mint workers? COVID 19: Experiences may vary :)


Canada's Main Streets and Small Businesses Face Extreme Uncertainty According to New Research Study
-Visits to main streets down 35-70 per cent
-Concern for safety is a critical issue, especially in downtown areas
-Small businesses pin hopes on Canadians shopping local

Vancity Community Investment Bank (VCIB), and the Canadian Urban Institute, today released research that examines seven of Canada’s main streets, offering insight into how small businesses have been impacted by COVID-19 since April.

This follow up study to earlier research reveals the extent to which small businesses are grappling with the effects of the pandemic. Insights from April to July showed that despite the pandemic, the business community had the space to find innovative ways to adapt during the summer by taking advantage of conditions such as relaxed restrictions and lower COVID-19 case numbers. Strong local economies and connections to the community were also helping businesses fare. However, visitation data shows foot traffic on main streets has fallen since September with each block reporting visits to be down between 35-70 per cent compared to the same time last year, and 58 per cent of businesses are operating with reduced revenues – often less than half of pre-COVID levels.

The study sets out to determine how communities and main streets have fared in the wake of the pandemic and quantifies the challenges facing small independent businesses. The survey looked at blocks in the following neighbourhoods in Ontario and British Columbia: The Beaches in Toronto; Surrey-Newton, BC; Downtown Hamilton; Wexford Heights, Toronto; Downtown Victoria; Strathcona-Vancouver; and the North Shore in Kamloops.


Key findings of the research study include:

Visits to the seven blocks were down between 30-70% compared to pre-COVID levels. Downtown Victoria in BC saw almost a million fewer visits from April to September compared to the same time last year. In The Beaches neighbourhood in Toronto, there were 550,000 fewer visits and in North Shore Kamloops, a small community in BC, there were 140,000 fewer visits.

Business owners in downtown blocks report an exponential increase in vandalism, including graffiti and broken windows, that they fear is keeping local residents off the main street. In Victoria and Strathcona in BC, 77% and 67% of businesses respectively, said their biggest challenge is increased safety issues in the neighbourhood.

More than 25% of businesses say that selling more online and through delivery applications have positively affected their business. And while these services have become a significant source of revenue for restaurants, the high commission rates charged by mainstream meal delivery services continues to put a strain on profits.

Encouraging local shopping was the most widely cited example of a meaningful support business owners wanted from government (57%). It was more popular than creating a more competitive tax environment (40%) or better access to financing (20%) as the most important thing governments and other main street advocates should do to support them going forward.

There is a growing presence of REITS and large investment companies on main streets, which tend to be less invested in the well-being of businesses and local neighbourhoods.

https://www.vancity.com/AboutVancity/News/MediaReleases/CanadasMainStreetsSmallBusinessesUncertainty_Dec7_2020/
 

OldSolduer

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Infanteer said:
The stuff about tyranny is silly and full of hyperbole.  People need to recognize that there is a line where personal liberty ends and social responsibility begins.  That's how civil society works.

And I agree.
We all pretty much are aware of our rights - less so for our responsibilities.
 

BDTyre

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Yes, fair point Brihard. I'm not sure what steps 39CBG are taking. I imagine the units have been told to see how many people they can get for a potential return to OP LASER. I do know that aside from the course I'm on, there is to be no in-person training across the brigade for the first few weeks of January.
 

brihard

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There will likely be a lot of members of the public both scrutinizing and freaked out by this. To us, reservists in AB doing pandemic-related training involving palliative care and dealing with deceased Canadians is simply proper preparation and due diligence for a remote contingency; to the public it’s potentially alarming. Most of us know that CAF obsessively plans and prepares, and that as much as we’ll sneer and joke about same, by and large CAF has a culture of ‘being ready’ for unanticipated eventualities. That ends up being exactly why the rest of the government leans on them in a crisis. Hell, before going to Afghanistan I practiced and trained to do a lot of things that I ultimately never had to do in real life. But that’s how CAF is any good at doing what it does. They have the luxury of time to anticipate, plan, and train without certain knowledge that said training will ultimately be needed.

Unfortunately the circumstances of the pandemic have primed the pump for fear and conspiracy. Many members of the public won’t realize that CAF will anticipate, plan for, and train for possible tasks without direction from civil authorities to do so. That’s why CAF is uniquely able to say “ok, let’s go” if a call comes, without an extended delay and apparent preparation- the prep work for dozens of possibilities has already been set in motion, so it’s a matter of pulling out the right file, dusting it off, and putting the polish on a contingency that was unlikely but nonetheless envisioned years ago.

I hope we don’t have CAF members dealing with worst case situations, but Italy circa March and April suggests CAF would be delinquent not to prepare for the remote possibility. I’m not in anymore and so will be the beneficiary of CAF’s participation (if it’s ultimately necessary) rather than a participant. I’m grateful that our people continue to get ready as best they can, and that leadership is leaning forward so that if an order comes it’ll “ok, what do you need tomorrow?” And not “what do you think you’ll still want us to do in February?”
 

daftandbarmy

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Oh my, I'm shocked  :sarcasm:




Ottawa passed over private sector plans to produce a COVID-19 vaccine domestically


The federal government passed over a private option for its plans to produce COVID-19 vaccine domestically by the end of 2020, instead investing in its own production facility that is now almost a year behind schedule.

The decision to pitch money into a delayed and still-under-construction government lab was made after Ottawa vowed to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to develop the country’s anemic biomanufacturing sector. With uncertainty emerging around whether Canada will be able to produce its own doses of the life-saving vaccine, those familiar with Canada’s pharmaceutical industry say Ottawa has charted the wrong course.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau acknowledged the government’s failure to meet its promise to start production in late November, saying the lab would be used to fight future pandemics. “We will not be caught on the wrong foot again.”

His government is sticking with its plan to spend $170-million upgrading existing National Research Council labs and to build a whole new facility at the government-run organization’s Montreal campus. Delays, however, mean the facility won’t be able to produce any doses of the vaccine until late summer, at the earliest.

Right next door to the NRC, on Royalmount Avenue in Montreal, is PnuVax, which sources familiar with the company say could have been ready to produce millions of doses of COVID-19 vaccine by the end of 2020.

The Globe and Mail is not identifying the industry sources, who are concerned criticizing government decisions could jeopardize future business with the Government of Canada.

PnuVax wouldn’t comment on whether it had applied to the Strategic Innovation Fund, providing a statement that reads: “PnuVax would be happy to assist in Canada’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic in any way that is possible.”

The PnuVax facility, which was most recently renovated in 2012 to meet Health Canada standards, sits on NRC land and has previously received support from the government research body. The company has worked to develop a low-cost pneumonia vaccine and was contracted by the federal government to produce an antibody-based treatment for the Ebola virus in 2014.

Multiple industry sources told The Globe that with the right investments, upgrades and approvals, PnuVax could have been producing vaccines much faster than the NRC’s plan to start from scratch.

Amine Kamen says, “There is a long history” with the PnuVax building. “It was there to support vaccine [production] in Canada,” said Dr. Kamen, a McGill professor who spent decades at the NRC pioneering a vaccine for rabies in animals. “If I was the Government of Canada, I would have taken that facility.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-feds-passed-over-private-option-with-plans-to-produce-covid-19-vaccine/?fbclid=IwAR3MUxB2kR5bsgsDyTJ4yYBUvr9Ttu7bAPK7Vk6gv_8oOvINaucNMGLpSoE
 

CBH99

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After dithering for so long on the Teek project, unable to build pipelines from Alberta to BC or Alberta to Alaska (We aren't even really 'building new pipelines' rather than mostly twinning whats already there) - failure to build LNG pipelines throughout southern Ontario and Quebec, missed opportunities to produce PPE here in Canada, and now this...

I'm honestly starting to think the LPC is actively trying to destroy our economy  :facepalm:


Even once all this Covid nonsense ends, it would be nice if there was some initiative to pursue these things.  So people have jobs to go back to.  :2c:
 
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