All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

[Blackadder1916]

Perhaps too many recall chloroquine or Remdesivir or . . . or . . . from the early days of the pandemic to get all that jazzed about the next great thing being announced by press release. Personally, I take a jaundiced view when "scientists" make such announcements in advance of publishing even preliminary findings in peer reviewed journals. At least this Canadian study of colchicine seems to be the most rigorous (or at least the largest) of the colchicine studies; once the study is completed (they give March 2021 as completion date) maybe there will be time for celebration. There is literature out there about the potential for colchicine in Covid-19 treatment and it has been looked at since the beginning of the pandemic.

From July 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7367785/

 

[dapaterson]

The most interesting thing my readings have seen is the suggestion that low doss aspirin as and anti-coagulant may be of benefit. No double blind tests yet, but positive results.

 

[Weinie]

The most interesting thing my readings have seen is the suggestion that low doss aspirin as and anti-coagulant may be of benefit. No double blind tests yet, but positive results.

Perhaps too many recall chloroquine or Remdesivir or . . . or . . . from the early days of the pandemic to get all that jazzed about the next great thing being announced by press release. Personally, I take a jaundiced view when "scientists" make such announcements in advance of publishing even preliminary findings in peer reviewed journals. At least this Canadian study of colchicine seems to be the most rigorous (or at least the largest) of the colchicine studies; once the study is completed (they give 21 March as completion date) maybe there will be time for celebration. There is literature out there about the potential for colchicine in Covid-19 treatment and it has been looked at since the beginning of the pandemic.

From July 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7367785/

Yup, but most Canadian studies have stayed well clear of the above.......reputation being paramount.

This, if disproved, would set back the institute and the BQ government , as Blanchet himself has stated that they had made significant progress.

An update, perhaps I was just paranoid, some folks seem to be recognizing that something is up.

Researchers tout 'major scientifc discovery' in $14M study for COVID-19 treatment | CBC News

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, more chicanery being exhibited by those who should know better:

A Whitby, Ont. doctor and her husband, who contracted the U.K. COVID-19 variant, have been charged after they allegedly mislead contact tracers.

Dr. Martina Weir, a physician with privileges at Lakeridge Health, the Fairview Lodge and the Hillsdale Terraces long-term care homes, has been charged with provincial offences under the Health Protection and Promotion Act. Her husband Brian Weir, who works for Toronto Paramedic Service in a non-patient facing role, has also been charged.



https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/o...llegedly-misleading-contact-tracers-1.5277338

 

[PMedMoe]

Makes you wonder who they thought they were protecting. I hope the "recent arrival" from the UK is also being charged with failure to self-isolate.

 

[Quirky]

A Whitby, Ont. doctor and her husband, who contracted the U.K. COVID-19 variant, have been charged after they allegedly mislead contact tracers.

It amazes me people are still going out and getting tested when they have mild symptoms. Sit in a line up for hours, get your brain swabbed then rely on an inaccurate PCR result that could sequester you for 2 weeks in your home. All these lockdowns and curfews are based on daily case numbers that freak people out, yet they keep lining up in droves when they have a scratchy throat or runny nose. If you are a single person on an income that's dependent on you going to work, what incentive do you have to get yourself a positive test and stay home for 2 weeks? You take away the crazy daily case numbers and life would go back to normal.

 

[GR66]

It amazes me people are still going out and getting tested when they have mild symptoms. Sit in a line up for hours, get your brain swabbed then rely on an inaccurate PCR result that could sequester you for 2 weeks in your home. All these lockdowns and curfews are based on daily case numbers that freak people out, yet they keep lining up in droves when they have a scratchy throat or runny nose. If you are a single person on an income that's dependent on you going to work, what incentive do you have to get yourself a positive test and stay home for 2 weeks? You take away the crazy daily case numbers and life would go back to normal.

Ah yes...the old stop the testing and reporting and the whole Covid thing will go away strategy!

Tell that to my sister-in-law who's SW Ontario hospital has doubled it's Covid admissions in the last week and are having to take overflow patients from the GTA. They had meetings this past week to discuss the protocols of triaging patients to determine who gets treatment and who doesn't when (as is projected for February) they may no longer have the capacity to treat every admission.

Or my niece who tells me that Sick Kids is having to take in patients from multiple other hospitals who are no longer able to admit pediatric cases as they are having to use those beds to house Covid patients. The pediatric ICU unit is already over capacity and they are expecting it to get worse.

So maybe these people are going and getting tested because they are being responsible citizens and want to ensure that they aren't passing on what could in some cases be a deadly illness to people that may not be fortunate enough to get a mild infection from the virus, or to hopefully help to prevent our health care system from becoming overwhelmed?

 

[RangerRay]

It amazes me people are still going out and getting tested when they have mild symptoms. Sit in a line up for hours, get your brain swabbed then rely on an inaccurate PCR result that could sequester you for 2 weeks in your home. All these lockdowns and curfews are based on daily case numbers that freak people out, yet they keep lining up in droves when they have a scratchy throat or runny nose. If you are a single person on an income that's dependent on you going to work, what incentive do you have to get yourself a positive test and stay home for 2 weeks? You take away the crazy daily case numbers and life would go back to normal.

I wish I did get tested when I had “mild symptoms”. I went to work with a runny nose and scratchy throat thinking is was a mild head cold. The next day, I stayed home when those symptoms turned into a bad head cold. These symptoms still did not appear on our COVID symptoms list so I spent the day resting with my family. That night I got a mild fever so I got tested the next day. Positive. How many people did I infect because I thought I “just had a cold”? In the end, I was barricaded away from my family for two weeks and I missed six weeks of work. So I won’t tell anyone to not get tested if they have mild symptoms.

 

[Quirky]

Tell that to my sister-in-law who's SW Ontario hospital has doubled it's Covid admissions in the last week and are having to take overflow patients from the GTA. They had meetings this past week to discuss the protocols of triaging patients to determine who gets treatment and who doesn't when (as is projected for February) they may no longer have the capacity to treat every admission.

Ontario has had hospital capacity issues long before covid ever showed up. Every year there is a huge surge of patients during the winter months, operating at over 100% is nothing new.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ontario-hospital-association-welcomes-winter-surge-plan-652502203.html

"Some of the province's largest hospitals experienced, and continue to experience, occupancy levels exceeding 100 per cent. In response, hundreds of unbudgeted beds have been opened province-wide. These conditions triggered calls for an aggressive investment in services in 2017-18 to avoid a possible crisis within Ontario's health care system."

From 2017.

Ah yes...the old stop the testing and reporting and the whole Covid thing will go away strategy!

So maybe these people are going and getting tested because they are being responsible citizens and want to ensure that they aren't passing on what could in some cases be a deadly illness to people that may not be fortunate enough to get a mild infection from the virus, or to hopefully help to prevent our health care system from becoming overwhelmed?

We had all summer to prepare for a second wave and didn't expand ICU capacities to prevent overflow and here we are, second lockdown later same thing is happening again. We didn't protect the already sick, old and vulnerable, everything up to this point has been a complete and utter failure including the vaccine rollouts. This is a never-ending cycle with no end in sight.

It's easy for public service or military folk to "just stay home" and wait days for results. Not everyone is spoiled and can collect paycheques from their homes. Getting a test done means no salary for a lot of people and when people get desperate enough, they stop caring about others. This was the case pre-pandemic and I don't expect the whole 'be a responsible citizen' to last much longer. People are getting sick of lock downs and curfews, if widespread travel bans come into effect, you'll see some really pissed off 'responsible citizens'. Stay home, stay safe, go mental.

 

[GR66]

We had all summer to prepare for a second wave and didn't expand ICU capacities to prevent overflow and here we are, second lockdown later same thing is happening again. We didn't protect the already sick, old and vulnerable, everything up to this point has been a complete and utter failure including the vaccine rollouts. This is a never-ending cycle with no end in sight.

It's easy for public service or military folk to "just stay home" and wait days for results. Not everyone is spoiled and can collect paycheques from their homes. Getting a test done means no salary for a lot of people and when people get desperate enough, they stop caring about others. This was the case pre-pandemic and I don't expect the whole 'be a responsible citizen' to last much longer. People are getting sick of lock downs and curfews, if widespread travel bans come into effect, you'll see some really pissed off 'responsible citizens'. Stay home, stay safe, go mental.

I don't follow your logic. Hospitals were already facing capacity issues. Agreed. Responses to the first wave of Covid were ineffective. Agreed. Vaccine roll-outs are a failure. Agreed.

So the solution is to stop testing, stop reporting and remove restrictions and let the virus run uncontrolled? You've already agreed that hospitals are facing the risk of being overwhelmed and long term care homes not properly protected. Just say screw it and hope you and your loved ones make it through ok?

Instead of throwing in the towel and letting the virus spread uncontrolled, wouldn't a better solution to be to find a way to support those that have to miss work in order to isolate?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ontario has had hospital capacity issues long before covid ever showed up. Every year there is a huge surge of patients during the winter months, operating at over 100% is nothing new.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ontario-hospital-association-welcomes-winter-surge-plan-652502203.html

We had all summer to prepare for a second wave and didn't expand ICU capacities to prevent overflow and here we are, second lockdown later same thing is happening again. We didn't protect the already sick, old and vulnerable, everything up to this point has been a complete and utter failure including the vaccine rollouts. This is a never-ending cycle with no end in sight.

I don't follow your logic. Hospitals were already facing capacity issues. Agreed. Responses to the first wave of Covid were ineffective. Agreed. Vaccine roll-outs are a failure. Agreed.

So the solution is to stop testing, stop reporting and remove restrictions and let the virus run uncontrolled? You've already agreed that hospitals are facing the risk of being overwhelmed and long term care homes not properly protected. Just say screw it and hope you and your loved ones make it through ok?

Instead of throwing in the towel and letting the virus spread uncontrolled, wouldn't a better solution to be to find a way to support those that have to miss work in order to isolate?

I think the 'Income Apartheid' we're seeing as a result of COVID lock downs might be one of the reasons some people are disinclined to stay home.

If you have an office job, public service or otherwise, you can make the same amount of money working from your laptop on the dining room table. In my case, a consultant, it's immeasurably better in many cases because I don't have to travel for work.

Entrepreneurs, small businesses and other self-employed people rely on income derived from activities other than those that can be delivered via Zoom calls. There is no way to compensate these people for the lost economic opportunities they are experiencing, whether it's related to federal compensation or otherwise.

So, I can imagine that some people are just keeping their illnesses to themselves and gettign on with making a living, becasue the alternative is not tenable.

 

[PuckChaser]

So, I can imagine that some people are just keeping their illnesses to themselves and gettign on with making a living, becasue the alternative is not tenable.

And because the actual consequences of them being sick are not there. When 99% of 59 and under age group cases (Ontario data) do not even result in hospitalization, there's no threat to their personal health to "stay home and stay safe". Human beings are selfish, especially when you're targeting the bottom layer of their Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

When 99% of 59 and under age group cases (Ontario data) do not even result in hospitalization, there's no threat to their personal health

You can have cancer for a long time before you need 'hospitalization' or never.........still have zero desire to get it. And take precautions....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And everybody "shits' on me for not liking/eating lobster. Bon appetit.

Cockroach of the sea.

 

[PuckChaser]

You can have cancer for a long time before you need 'hospitalization' or never.........still have zero desire to get it. And take precautions....

Cancer will eventually produce enough symptoms to require hospitalization, you can't catch it from someone and is a ridiculous false equivalency. COVID-19 gives you the sniffles and goes away in a few days unless you have some underlying conditions where it hits like a mack truck.

Maybe my view is biased by actually watching a COVID-19 outbreak in a healthy, working age population living in communal living with shared washrooms. Less than half of the "high risk" individuals actually tested positive, and half of those positive tests ever ended up with symptoms. Worst hit folks felt like a 2-3 day flu.

If lockdowns and masks worked, Florida should be the poster child for devastating COVID-19 deaths. Instead, their numbers closely mirror our own in Ontario, and Ontario completely botched keeping COVID out of LTCs and other senior living centers.

 

[dapaterson]

Florida: Population 21.5M, 25K COVID deaths. Ontario population 14.5M, 5.7K COVID deaths. Canada population 38M, 19K COVID deaths.

But don't let facts intrude on your opinions.

 

[HiTechComms]

Florida: Population 21.5M, 25K COVID deaths. Ontario population 14.5M, 5.7K COVID deaths. Canada population 38M, 19K COVID deaths.

But don't let facts intrude on your opinions.

Don't let the fact that Florida has a 20.5% of its population as seniors compared to 16.7% (according to stats for 2018)for Ontario dilute your conclusion.
The older the population the higher the death rate, then again this applies to all death statistics all across the board.

Not only that just look at the Obesity rates as well.

Also lets account for unemployment rates.

Everyone seems to be pushing some narrative but the fact is no one has actually taken all of these factors into account.

Now I am sure some one will pose the argument for the moral justification of "life" not sure if this applies since we have legalized abortion, and euthanasia.

My last quip would be: What is the expected and accepted casualty rate of soldiers in battles?

If you are sick stay home, covid or not if you have a fever and sniffles and cough don't be an jerk and just stay home. I though this applies to everyone isn't this common sense?

 

[FJAG]

...
If you are sick stay home, covid or not if you have a fever and sniffles and cough don't be an jerk and just stay home. I though this applies to everyone isn't this common sense?

You'd think it would be, wouldn't you ... but no. Folks just don't work that way.

 

[CBH99]

Cancer will eventually produce enough symptoms to require hospitalization, you can't catch it from someone and is a ridiculous false equivalency. COVID-19 gives you the sniffles and goes away in a few days unless you have some underlying conditions where it hits like a mack truck.

Maybe my view is biased by actually watching a COVID-19 outbreak in a healthy, working age population living in communal living with shared washrooms. Less than half of the "high risk" individuals actually tested positive, and half of those positive tests ever ended up with symptoms. Worst hit folks felt like a 2-3 day flu.

If lockdowns and masks worked, Florida should be the poster child for devastating COVID-19 deaths. Instead, their numbers closely mirror our own in Ontario, and Ontario completely botched keeping COVID out of LTCs and other senior living centers.

I don't know what the Ontario policies at LTCs are...

But here in Alberta...a senior can have as many visitors as they want in a day, as long as it is only one person at a time. I have no idea how any of the folks in leadership positions - whether it be LTCs or public health - actually qualified for their jobs, minus they probably looked good on paper...

Like I said, I don't know what the policies are in Ontario. But ours aren't exactly the work of folks with common sense either

 

[brihard]

Don't let the fact that Florida has a 20.5% of its population as seniors compared to 16.7% (according to stats for 2018)for Ontario dilute your conclusion.
The older the population the higher the death rate, then again this applies to all death statistics all across the board.

Not only that just look at the Obesity rates as well.

Also lets account for unemployment rates.

Everyone seems to be pushing some narrative but the fact is no one has actually taken all of these factors into account.

Now I am sure some one will pose the argument for the moral justification of "life" not sure if this applies since we have legalized abortion, and euthanasia.

My last quip would be: What is the expected and accepted casualty rate of soldiers in battles?

If you are sick stay home, covid or not if you have a fever and sniffles and cough don't be an jerk and just stay home. I though this applies to everyone isn't this common sense?

Adjusted for population, Florida has about 250% Ontario’s death rate. By your figures it has about 125% our population of seniors. Florida and Ontario actually have obesity rates within a couple % of each other. Unemployment rates are within a percentage of each other. Yet that pesky double death rate remains. I would suggest the possibility that the purported factors and figures you’re relying on don’t actually support your position the way you do.