Alleged police attack may nix soldier's Afghan tour

[George Wallace]

Not really an Afghanistan related story, as much as a Fredericton NB story:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.


Alleged police attack may nix soldier's Afghan tour, he says

LINK

CBC  News      23/07/2009 4:53:41 PM




A Quebec soldier says his tour of duty in Afghanistan may be in jeopardy after he was roughed up by Fredericton police officers outside a downtown night club.


Luc Begin, who was in Fredericton celebrating his engagement, has filed a complaint over the incident with the local police and the New Brunswick Police Commission, alleging that he was assaulted.

Begin, normally based at CFB Valcartier in Quebec, told CBC News in an interview on Thursday that he is supposed to go to Afghanistan in October 2010. But the infantry officer said he suffered a broken vertebra in his back during the altercation and that could cost him his tour of duty.

"I feel bad because [going to Afghanistan] is part of my job," he said. "Serving my country just like those police - it's part of their job to protect people, not to beat them up."

Witnesses, including one with video footage, support Begin's story.

Just before 1 a.m. on Saturday, Charles LeBlanc, a local blogger, was walking in Fredericton's downtown bar district when he saw several police officers with Begin in front of Sweetwaters.

LeBlanc captured part of the incident with his video camera.

"He didn't resist. They walked him about 15 feet and they forced him on the ground," LeBlanc said.

In LeBlanc's video, a police officer is heard yelling, "Stop resisting," and Begin replies, "I'm not resisting."

The video shows two officers holding Begin while a third drives his knee into him at least four times.

Barry MacKnight, the chief of the Fredericton police, said on Thursday afternoon that the RCMP will conduct a criminal investigation into Begin's complaint.

MacKnight said it is important that the Begin probe be seen as impartial and "as open as possible."

A Fredericton city spokesman said one of the officers involved in the complaint has been suspended with pay.

Complaint filed

In a written complaint, Begin says he did nothing to provoke the reaction.

Begin, who is teaching at the infantry school at CFB Gagetown and is normally posted at CFB Valcartier in Quebec, said he was mistakenly identified by bar staff as a customer who had caused problems two weeks earlier.

As he was leaving the club, he said a police officer asked to speak with him. Begin said he tried to explain that he was not the person they were looking for, saying he was not in Fredericton when the previous incident happened.

He said he was thrown to the ground and police officers started to hit him and knee him.

Andrew Bedford, another witness of the incident, said he read Begin's complaint on CBCNews.ca.

"What he was saying matched up with what I saw, and that what happened wasn't justified," he said.

"They said he was resisting arrest. I didn't see any resisting arrest."

 

[gaspasser]

Sorry to hear about this and hope that his back heals properly and that he does get his chance to serve his country in the manner he wishes.
I think the only thing he resisted was an overpowering urge to kick the feces out of three asshat cops with his unarmed combat skills  :warstory:

 

[chris_log]

There's two sides to every story. I'm sure both will come out in good time.

On a completely unrelated note....Sweetwaters, ahh the memories.

 

[1feral1]

Prior to a deployment you got to be squeaky clean.

Your not going until you're on the plane, and that aint good enough until you're actually in theatre.

Booze can ruin lots of things including a $$ rewarding tour.

OWDU

 

[VIChris]

I've never understood the whole 'suspended with pay' as a punishment. I wish I could screw up at work and take a paid vacation while my bosses unscrew the situation.

Here's to a speedy recovery for Begin, and a thorough investigation into the event.

 

[Roy Harding]

I've never understood the whole 'suspended with pay' as a punishment. I wish I could screw up at work and take a paid vacation while my bosses unscrew the situation.

Here's to a speedy recovery for Begin, and a thorough investigation into the event.

Police have many complaints filed against them.  MOST of them are unfounded.  In a case like this - it would decrease public confidence in, and respect for, the Police Service in question if the officer were to continue his public duties.  At the same time - the officer hasn't been proved Guilty of anything - he's only under investigation.  Thus - "suspension with pay".

If police officers were "suspended WITHOUT pay" every time there was a complaint against them - they'd be at the food bank just to keep their families fed.

IFF the officer is found to be at fault in this case - action will be taken at that time, not before.

Like someone else said earlier - I'll wait for the investigation to be finalized before I form an opinion.  Although my personal inclination is to believe the young CF officer involved - I've seen the police unfairly pilloried in the MSM far too often to believe anything regarding them when a story is initially published.

Roy

 

[VIChris]

I understand the many complaints, but I don't see why a person can't continue to work while under investigation. I mean really, if someone knows people are looking over their shoulder, they're likely to keep clean in their day to day duties. If you're going to be paying someone, get some work out of them. Call me old fashioned, but that's how I see it.

Edited to add:

As far as who should be under investigation, how about the bar staff who involve police when they aren't sure whom they're dealing with? It sounds like the problem started there, and may have been exacerbated by overzealous police.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Here's the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwejxZ0VzTA

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Looks good to me......you refuse to place/submit your arms out to the side while on your stomach and the SOP is to treat you like you are armed.

I've never understood the whole 'suspended with pay' as a punishment. I wish I could screw up at work and take a paid vacation while my bosses unscrew the situation.

Here's to a speedy recovery for Begin, and a thorough investigation into the event.

..and here's to you being an idiot with that "punishment" statement.

 

[medaid]

Keep in mind that Police officers make mistakes. However, once they're engaged, their safety comes in first and foremost. Until you are restrained, you are a safety concern.

Anyways... wasn't there won't comment anymore.

 

[Armymedic]

I have never been in law enforcement of any type, so this here is my question:

How does multiple knees strikes to the back, or any other strike to the body like that (other than to the back of the head) subdue someone whom you want to lay still?

My though is that is I were in the receiver position I would be doing my best to dodge, block or repel those repeated body blows and not be submissive.

 

[VIChris]

Looks good to me......you refuse to place/submit your arms out to the side while on your stomach and the SOP is to treat you like you are armed.

..and here's to you being an idiot with that "punishment" statement.

I fail to see how my comment earned me the idiot comment. It's a fair question. He's not being suspended because his superiors think he did a good job. It's happening because there is concern he acted inapropriately during the arrest. It's a disciplinary action.

As was pointed out above, however, it's not done so much to punish the officer, but to appease public perception during the investigation. I can see the intent as being sound, though I personally disagree with the means. I think he should still be allowed to work while under investigation. And I do think an investigation is warranted in this case.

 

[Kat Stevens]

There is no disciplinary action warranted until the investigation is completed and charges laid, or not.  The suspension is an administrative action pending the outcome of that investigation.  Innocent until proved guilty and all that other weak kneed democratic bullcrap.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I have never been in law enforcement of any type, so this here is my question:

How does multiple knees strikes to the back, or any other strike to the body like that (other than to the back of the head) subdue someone whom you want to lay still?

Actually, *done correctly*, a quick knee strike just above the shoulder blades will involuntarilly make the shoulders rise and the arms swing out slightly making a grab possible and thats what they want, control of the arms, then he can lie still all night if he wishes.................

 

[the_girlfirend]

The guy is lying on the ground... with 3-4 police officers over him... I believe that the kneeing part was wrong... the guy was not submitting yet, but he seemed to be dominated enough.

 

[X-mo-1979]

I have never been in law enforcement of any type, so this here is my question:

How does multiple knees strikes to the back, or any other strike to the body like that (other than to the back of the head) subdue someone whom you want to lay still?

My though is that is I were in the receiver position I would be doing my best to dodge, block or repel those repeated body blows and not be submissive.

Agreed.I watched the video and cringed when he started MMA style knee's.As said before there are two sides to every story,but I don't understand how 3 people couldn't detain him without doing that much damage.Two people holding me down while one beat on me... I agree SFB I would be doing the same.

Not to mention if they ruined my career with medical release not to mention the missed tour. I would defiantly get legal advice.

Alas I hope the legal system get's all the answers to this unfortunate event.

 

[PMedMoe]

The video is sort of useless.  We only see what happened after he's on the ground.  Although, I agree the 3-4 shots in the back were excessive, what was the situation before he was laying down?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I have zero remorse for people who resist the police. They tell you to stop and get on the ground, you listen.

That said having been on both sides of the "Stop resisting! youtube cover your ass" shouting I can tell you that even when you are on your back trying to do what you're told, having 3 or 4 cops on top of you pulling you pushing you grabbing you kicking you it's very hard to just go completely limp and do what their saying.
It's unnatural.
Your bodies natural reaction to someone kicking you in the guts is to tense up and curl up in a ball or atleast protect yourself.  I have bad shoulders,if a cop is going to grab my arms I'm going to subconsciously resist a little and try and lessen the force their using because the alternative is having them pop my shoulder out of socket, again.
Your first reaction is to protect yourself, your second is to follow instructions.

If the soldier was being a douche bag then I hope he loses his tour and the cop gets put back on the job, if the cops were out of line (and seeing the video I'm inclined to feel they were) I hope the cop gets punished and the department made to pay the amount of money the soldier  is missing out on serving overseas.

 

[muskrat89]

We all cringe when members of the public judge actions (out of context) by trained soldiers, under stressful conditions. It always fascinates me that these kinds of threads get as much traffic as they do, on here. Just sayin

 

[X-mo-1979]

The video is sort of useless.  We only see what happened after he's on the ground.  Although, I agree the 3-4 shots in the back were excessive, what was the situation before he was laying down?

They explain the situation on that blog.Don't say nothing about him doing anything.However I have to say after seeing media reports coming out of Afghanistan, I have little to no time for their false information,lack of rebuttals.

As SFB said I aint a cop,but does beating someone usually usually calm the situation down?Or should three appearing larger men be able to subdue 1 unarmed person?

One nice thing (which can be the downfall too)of having people with cheap compact video,is these things are documented.