Alleged US raid on Iranian Consulate

[daftandbarmy]

Not sure about this one is. Does anyone have the scoop on Debka File's credibility?


DEBKAfile: Kurdish sources report five helicopters carried US forces to pre-dawn raid of Iranian consulate in N. Iraqi town of Irbil
http://www.debka.com/

January 11, 2007, 5:21 PM (GMT+02:00)

They were dropped on the roof while armored vehicles encircled the building. The troops used loudspeakers to call out in Farsi and Arabic to the consulate staff not to resist “or else they would be killed.” Five Iranian diplomatic staff members were detained and documents and computers impounded.

Tehran has strongly protested this breach of its sovereign territory and summoned the Swiss ambassador who represents US interests in Iran and the Iraqi ambassador to demand the immediate release of the Iranian diplomats.

Later Thursday, Jan. 11, Tehran reported three large explosions shaking the southern town of Khorramshahr north of the oil port of Abadan on the Shatt al-Arb waterway.

DEBKAfile: Khorramshahr, which faces the Iraqi town of Basra, is one of the key towns from which Iran delivers smuggled fighters, weapons and explosives to its Shiite supporters in Iraq. Our sources also report that some hours before President George W. Bush’s policy speech, a series of explosions were heard in Iranian Balochistan. Tehran imposed a blackout on the incident.

These statements and events tie in closely with the new Iraq strategy announced by the US president of confronting Iran and Syria for “allowing networks to use their territory to attack US forces.”

 

[GAP]

It was on CNN also...the consulate apparently did not have diplomatic status and was being used as a weapons depot.

 

[KevinB]

It was on CNN also...the consulate apparently did not have diplomatic status and was being used as a weapons depot.

The lose their status (same as Hospitals and Mosques do) when they are used for weapons storage and insurgent training/basing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

So, the headline could be better put this way:

"US raid on Alleged Iranian Consulate"

 

[warpig]

Were any weapon’s found that would be considered surplus to that used to protect diplomats in a very hostile situation? For an example of what I mean, the weapons highly likely to be found in the US embassy in Ottawa are not surplus to that embassy, or unexpected. You can’t say the Delegation was a Weapons Storage and insurgent training and staging site without actually finding insurgent training, insurgent weapons and evidence. 

I’m not denying that there in all likelihood people in any official Iranian Delegation who are also working towards supporting the Shiia factions causing so much of the bloodshed.  I understand others here have differing opinions of what this escalation of tensions between Tehran and Washington will accomplish, but I believe this is counter-productive. The Iranians have infinite ability to “conduct business” in Iraq aside from Diplomatic Posts. However, is this just “busy work” for the Americans in keeping with the new Presidential Initiative? I wonder if there were any WMD found also?

So much of the American press on this issue (and the Iranians in General) attributes the focus of the Shiia Insurgents on Iran’s machinations. Not true. The Iraqi Shiia are conducting business independent of Iranian Intentions. The mistake here, and this includes what the Americans are doing to further create tensions with Iran, is that Americans are looking for quick fixes to the issue. Iran is aiding the Shiia Insurgents yes, but they don’t control them or direct them. The US administration is working at two self-defeating issues here.

 

[DBA]

It looks like a good way to gather specific intelligence on what Iran is doing on the ground. If your about to commit several thousand additional troops to clear an area then gathering such details on one of the actors would be good preparation. Depending on what was kept there by the Iranians it could be a major intelligence win. That's just speculation on my part however.

 

[GAP]

The US has been effectively pussy footing around when it comes to anything controversial. I am not talking about killing the insurgents, but those that are electing to supply them support. Bush now has nothing to lose (about time) and time to be super aggressive.

 

[rmacqueen]

To raid a consulate, whether you consider it to be one or not, is a slippery slope to go down.  What is to stop other countries from declaring that a US consulate does not have "diplomatic status" or to say that the CIA and NSA personnel posted to consulates are supporting factions a particular country doesn't like.  As much as the rules are counterproductive in certain circumstances they are in place for a reason.  Diplomatic immunity is in place to keep all countries from using trumped up charges and allegations to arrest or "raid" embassies and consulates for their own purposes.

Another question also comes to mind, was this a considered a consulate under Hussein?  Who decided that it did not have diplomatic status?

 

[rmacqueen]

Bush now has nothing to lose

That is when people become most dangerous

 

[GAP]

That is when people become most dangerous

agreed. Watch for some controversial actions to take place, if they even make the news.

 

[DBA]

To raid a consulate, whether you consider it to be one or not, is a slippery slope to go down.  What is to stop other countries from declaring that a US consulate does not have "diplomatic status" or to say that the CIA and NSA personnel posted to consulates are supporting factions a particular country doesn't like.  As much as the rules are counterproductive in certain circumstances they are in place for a reason.  Diplomatic immunity is in place to keep all countries from using trumped up charges and allegations to arrest or "raid" embassies and consulates for their own purposes.

Another question also comes to mind, was this a considered a consulate under Hussein?  Who decided that it did not have diplomatic status?

As I posted in the other thread on this Iran doesn't have clean hands in this regard due to an incident in 1979 (Google for Iran Hostage Crisis).

 

[rmacqueen]

As I posted in the other thread on this Iran doesn't have clean hands in this regard due to an incident in 1979 (Google for Iran Hostage Crisis).

Is retaliation for past ills now an acceptable part of foreign policy?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Its war........and if its required then do it. If it turns out to be wrong then  apoligize to the offended country, better that then apoligizing to a dead soldiers children.

...and for the "past ills" part, Canada can't talk, its a large part of our 'internal' policies.

 

[KevinB]

FWIW -- The gouge we are getting here is that it was not a consulate  -- it was afforded no immunity.

The Iranains are dirty in this affair -- and a lot of other stuff in this country and if I could there are a few targets I'd pull the tirgger on in my locale...

 

[rmacqueen]

FWIW -- The gouge we are getting here is that it was not a consulate  -- it was afforded no immunity.

Still want to know how it was decided it was not a consulate, obviously the Iranians believed it was.

 

[KevinB]

Since the Iraqi gov't said it was not  : -- last time I looked the elected gov't of IRAQ was incharge of its diplomatic relations -- not the IRANIAN gov't to decided what it wants.
heck what do I know I'm just in Iraq - I'm sure your more intune with the local goings on from your sofa.

 

[rmacqueen]

Since the Iraqi gov't said it was not  : -- last time I looked the elected gov't of IRAQ was incharge of its diplomatic relations -- not the IRANIAN gov't to decided what it wants.
heck what do I know I'm just in Iraq - I'm sure your more intune with the local goings on from your sofa.

Can you provide a link to that or should I bow to your superior knowledge in the matter?  So far the authoritative source has been CNN, not exactly a scion of accuracy

Its war........and if its required then do it. If it turns out to be wrong then  apoligize to the offended country, better that then apoligizing to a dead soldiers children.

...and for the "past ills" part, Canada can't talk, its a large part of our 'internal' policies.

Are you suggesting the ends justify the means?  As for internal policies, it really doesn't pertain to this discussion

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Are you suggesting the ends justify the means?  As for internal policies, it really doesn't pertain to this discussion

Yup.

........and for the second, you're right,.....except for something called a 'soapbox'

 

[geo]

In modern usage, a consul is a representative of a sovereign state, posted to a foreign territory, in charge of matters related to individuals and businesses (in other words issues outside inter-governmental diplomacy), or to an officer performing mainstream (political) diplomatic functions within a subordinate post. The office of a Consul is known as a consulate, whether it is a section of the diplomatic post or a separate office, as in all other cities (generally only the capital hosts the diplomatic posts); it may be qualified more precisely after the consular chiefs rank, e.g. consulate-general.

Contrary to popular belief, although many of the staff of consulates may be career diplomats they do not generally have diplomatic immunity (unless they are also accredited as such). Immunities and privileges for consuls and accredited staff of consulates under the relevant international conventions are generally limited to actions undertaken in their official capacity and, with respect to the consulate itself, to those required for official duties. In practice, the extension and application of consular privileges and immunities can be subject to wide discrepancies from country to country.

1st Q: does Iran entertain dipplomatic ties with Iraq?
2nd Q:  were Embassy personnel present in this consulate?
3rd Q:  were they injured, interrogated, arrested?

 

[KevinB]

Can you provide a link to that or should I bow to your superior knowledge in the matter?  So far the authoritative source has been CNN, not exactly a scion of accuracy

Well the Iraqi gov't has mentioned it on the local news (according to the locals we have)

The other info I have comes from UN country IntSums and other stuff.