Amnesty International and the Canadian Forces

[FredDaHead]

Hey guys,

I just got back from a 3-day formation camp from AI, and learned a LOT of stuff (and met awesome people) and anyways, to get to the point... I'm just wondering if it's possible to be "active" in AI while being in the CF, or if that's banned or just looked down upon without  being formally banned? I guess actually being in protests and that kinda stuff is probably not a good idea, but how about organisational positions where you're not in the public eye per se, and you just help to coordinate stuff?

Anyways, it's not like I'll go insane if I can't be active, it's just something I'm really interested in, and I'd like to keep doing it even if I get in the CF.

-Fred

 

[pbi]

A more important question might be what AI thinks of you being in the military.

Unless AI is counselling you to disobey orders, become politically active, or break the law, you should be OK. I assume that you are a Reservist? If so, when you are not subject to the Code of Service Discipline (ie: most of the time for a Class A Res soldier) yuo have greater freedoms than those of us in the Regular Force. You might want to contact the local detachment of the Judge Advocate. I suggest you use common sense, but my feeling is that the day may come when you will feel personally compelled to choose one or the other.

Cheers

 

[johnny_boy]

A more important question might be what AI thinks of you being in the military.

I assume that you are a Reservist? If so, when you are not subject to the Code of Service Discipline (ie: most of the time for a Class A Res soldier) yuo have greater freedoms than those of us in the Regular Force.

Cheers

On my BMQ (I'm a reservist) they told us in our military law lecture that we were part of the Code of Service Discipline and to not think "we can get away with crap because we're reservists". I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is what they said, and I know stuff you hear isn't always consistant. Their point was even if we aren't in uniform, and being paid, and no where near the base, we still fall under the military law and codes, and thusly can be charged.

Does someoen know for sure?

 

[48Highlander]

Amnesty international isn't some left-wing anti-government fringe group like ANSWER.  While it's a little unusual for military members to also be part of AI, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Eowyn]

On my BMQ (I'm a reservist) they told us in our military law lecture that we were part of the Code of Service Discipline and to not think "we can get away with crap because we're reservists". I'm not saying you're wrong, but this is what they said, and I know stuff you hear isn't always consistant. Their point was even if we aren't in uniform, and being paid, and no where near the base, we still fall under the military law and codes, and thusly can be charged.

Does someoen know for sure?

National Defence Act

60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:

c) an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is

(i) undergoing drill or training, whether in uniform or not,

(ii) in uniform,

(iii) on duty,

(iv) [Repealed, 1998, c. 35, s. 19]

(v) called out under Part VI in aid of the civil power,

(vi) called out on service,

(vii) placed on active service,

(viii) in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in or on any defence establishment or work for defence,

(ix) serving with any unit or other element of the regular force or the special force, or

(x) present, whether in uniform or not, at any drill or training of a unit or other element of the Canadian Forces;


Those are the only times, as a Reservist, you are subject to the Code of Service Discipline.

 

[Cloud Cover]

As a serving member of the CAF, you are always subject to the Security of Information Act. If you are an ex-member, you are still subject to the SIA regarding your past service.

Amnesty International (Canada) stands for some very heartening principles. Paradoxically, the Canadian branch is also more likely to stand with an enemy of Canada than any other organization that is not expressly hostile to our interests.

If you want to be a member of AI, go ahead, here's analogy: lots of police officers are members of the John Howard Society, and not because they empathize with the position of convicted criminals.

Cheers.   

 

[winchable]

I'm pretty familiar with amnesty international and my experiences with them suggest that they are not selective in their calls for human rights.

While they do stand against US and "western" actions in Guantanamo bay, they also call for action in Iran, Nepal, Bhopal-India, China.

Not a fringe group.
Not everyone has to be a member obviously, but I can't see anyone taking issue with someone who is concerned with human rights enough to get involved with an organisation.

If you read through their current "appeals" section, the US and other "western" allies occupy less space then the human rights abusers we all love to hate.

I say get involved, you can always pick your battles within the organisation, just because you support many things they stand for doesn't mean you have to support or involve yourself with everything they stand for.

 

[FredDaHead]

Actually, I'm not a reservist, I'm actually trying to get into RMC as a reg force navy officer.

Obviously I wouldn't take actions that would be benificial to our enemies. I also don't think I'll be put in a position where I have to choose between the CAF and AI, but if it happens, I think I'd probably pick the CAF.

As for how AI sees people in the military, those members I talked with, and also people involved in other related organizations, didn't think it was bad I wanted to be in AI while being in the CAF. Actually, many said it was great to see I was interested in AI and human rights in general.

Thanks for the answers, I was getting a bit worried that I couldn't stay involved after I got in.

 

[48Highlander]

As a member of the CF you'd more than likely be deployed to maintain peace and improve the quality of life and human rights somewhere anyway.  While our job is still primarily shooting at people and blowing things up, we also tend to help build schools, secure water and electricity supplies for the local populace, and offer medical and educational supplies.  AI is very much in favour of that sort of work.

 

[FredDaHead]

One thing I'm wondering about also is that if, as a CF member, I was to write a letter for AI, would I be allowed to sign it with my rank included, or would I have to leave it out?

Anyways, I'm relieved to know I can be involved with AI while blowing people up

 

[48Highlander]

I doubt it.  As a rule of thumb I don't sign anything which is likely to be published with my name/rank, however, if you really wanted to you could forward a copy of it up the chain before publishing it and see what they say.

 

[johnny_boy]

One thing I'm wondering about also is that if, as a CF member, I was to write a letter for AI, would I be allowed to sign it with my rank included, or would I have to leave it out?

Anyways, I'm relieved to know I can be involved with AI while blowing people up

Just make sure you let them know you are blowing people up in pursuit of human rights. That makes it okay. 

 

[winchable]

If I was writing anything to amnesty international I wouldn't include my rank or affiliation with the forces on the basis that whatever I say or do might be construed as being what the CF thinks and not what I think.

 

[FredDaHead]

If I was writing anything to amnesty international I wouldn't include my rank or affiliation with the forces on the basis that whatever I say or do might be construed as being what the CF thinks and not what I think.

I doubt it. As a rule of thumb I don't sign anything which is likely to be published with my name/rank, however, if you really wanted to you could forward a copy of it up the chain before publishing it and see what they say.

Makes sense. I thought the same but wanted to check. Thanks again, guys

 

[paracowboy]

not to be insulting, here, but why would you want to be a part of AI? By enlisting you are becoming a part of something that actually makes a difference in the world, and is an actual force for good. AI is, (in my opinion, entirely) pretty much useless and a waste of time. Good thoughts, good hearts, good intentions, but accomplishing nothing whatsoever. If I am involved in acts against Human Rights, you can write me letters saying anything you want, but do you actually expect me to read them? And, if I am so naturally evil as to be involved in suppressing human rights, do you honestly believe that a letter (or a million letters) will cause me to change my mind? Dictators and the like don't care what anybody else thinks of them. They're bullies. The only way to stop a bully is to poke him in the lips.

Anyway, good luck with your endeavours (both of them).

 

[winchable]

Good point paracowboy, but I guess the only counter would be "Why not?"
And we could be at that for hours.

Can't hurt to attack from both the pointy (the army) and soft (Legal courts-human rights watch and of course "Letters to Kim" type of campaigns).

As far as these kinds of organisations go, Amnesty is..one of the better ones.
I find they're pretty good at drawing attention to lesser known and less "sexy" human rights abuses...having Bono as a spokesman doesn't hurt either.

 

[paracowboy]

Good point paracowboy, but I guess the only counter would be "Why not?"
And we could be at that for hours.

you're right, we could, so I'll just rebut the once, and then you can reply, and we'll let 'er drop. Agreed?
It just seems like a waste of time and resources, to me. Take that money you would have spent, take the time you would have spent, and use it locally to do someone nearby some good. Find a worthwhile charity close by, and get involved. Writing letters to someone who isn't going to read them, and doesn't care one whit (I love that word!) about your opinion is counter-productive to me. Buying a homeless person a cheeseburger, at least feeds somebody. Volunteering some time in a children's ward, or an Old Folk's Home makes a positive difference in somebody's life. AI is a nice way to feel good about yourself without actually DOING anything.

And Bono is getting way too caught up in himself, anyway. (What's up with the perma-sunglasses and pleather catsuit? ;D )

 

[winchable]

Volunteering some time in a children's ward, or an Old Folk's Home makes a positive difference in somebody's life.

Excellent point, think globally act locally.
I know I spent my last 2 years of highschool volunteering at the furniture bank.

That's something you might want to consider Frederik G, I was kind of caught up in only thinking of AI sized things, but you could definetly do smaller.

Do you have a local charity you like?
I know here, there is the NS-Gambia association which is a devlopment organisation I worked with for a while which sends people and supplies to the Gambia.
Just an example, it's international, but not so international that your contribution is a whisper in a sea of shouting.

And about Bono..I actually was thinking about that the other day and I think he doesn't have eyes anymore...and thats the only way he can sell albums now because if people saw his gaping sockets they wouldn't go see the tour.

 

[FredDaHead]

AI doesn't do anything? I personally know one person who was liberated because of AI, and I've met a few others. I'd say that's a good start.

Where it comes to local charities, there are a few of them I'm interested in, and I donate to some, and I also often give money to homeless people. (granted, a buck or two doesn't buy a cheeseburger, but it's a start) Who says you can't be involved both on the global and local scale, anyways?

Also, about "dictators not caring" and whatnot.. Remember that there's one thing all country leaders care about: money. Make a big deal of some human rights abuse (like AI does) and it can start hurting them monetarily. And THEN they care.

paracowboy, you're entitled to your opinions, but I'm a bit insulted about some of what you said. Another thing you might wanna think about is, if everyone thinks "it's impossible," it's not gonna get done. But if a bunch of people say "it IS possible," then it is. What if everyone had said "we can't beat Hitler, let's just sit back at home and help people," back in '45?

Anyways, one of the good things about AI is that assuming I'm accepted in the CF, I can still be active in it no matter where I move, unlike local charities which I won't be able to help with while I'm away, or when I move.

You guys make good points, I just generally don't agree with you 

 

[291er]

I'm a member of AI and a member of the Reg Force.  That being said, I'm not an overly active member, I just give them their $10 a month or whatever.  But I have'nt had any problems thus far, they seem to do pretty good work and when I signed up, they did'nt give me any grief about being  in the CF, far from it, they were very appreciative of the work that we do overseas.