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Australian navy's hunt for new sub to replace Collins class

KevinB

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Already lost of questions about this announcement in Australia:
Seems more and more like a pretty dumb plan. Might have been better to stick with Naval Group and build 6 Attack, and then transition to a nuclear boat. That way they don't have to flog the Collinses to death for another 20 years.
I think you will see some joint work prior with the USN - and probably a USN SSN or two be lent in the interim.
 

dimsum

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As a minimum, mixed AUS/US crews, so the Aussies can start to gain nuke boat experience. Bet you that starts nearly immediately.
I would be shocked if they didn't have people on the list to go to for months.
 

suffolkowner

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Strange saga from the start Soryu from Japan almost a done deal and then back out to have a competition where Naval Group was chosen but problems begin almost immediately until it's cancelled to start over again with a UK/US arrangement. They can't seriously be looking at another paper sub, 20 years down the road again? The Aussies have had trouble crewing 6 Collins so the 12 Attack and now 8 SSN have always seemed optimistic. As calculus noted above issues with local content had plagued the Attack class hard to see that not being a continued issue with the new SSN. The best bet would be to purchase Astutes from the UK of course they will want to swap out the combat system/torpedoes, etc. But they want to build in Australia so maybe buy 1 or 2 from the UK then license build the rest. Will the Aussies be able to minimze the Australianization? One of the issues with Attack class was the Aussies interest in having the 6 torpedoes up front instead of 4 or even two on each side. Will 3 aside be acceptable? I'm sure there will be many years more to keep us interested but hopefully it doesn't rival our Sea King replacement or India's ongoing fighter project
 

daftandbarmy

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Oops... and you can forget about getting any help in Africa etc too, Uncle Sam/Joe:


"The joint statement with Le Drian called France "the only European nation present in the Indo-Pacific with nearly two million citizens and more than 7,000 military personnel," and the statement affirmed that France is a "reliable partner that will continue to fulfill its commitments, as it has always done." It also said Australia's decision "reinforces the need to make the issue of European strategic autonomy loud and clear."
The submarine deal also comes on the heels of the messy withdrawal from Afghanistan, leading to criticism from NATO allies."

 

dimsum

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Uncle Sam/Joe
Uncle Joe, you say... :sneaky:

Stalin_Full_Image.jpg
 

Navy_Pete

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I’ll bet that the French are pissed.

We will probably make things worse and take their side…
I can see why; instead of buying an off the shelf version of the french nuke boats, the Aussies wanted a bespoke design with diesel engines instead, which is what lead to all the redesign work, costs increases and delays. Then literally a week after the PM meeting with Macron saying it's fine they pull out out the French contract and jump into bed with the US and UK, but won't actually be getting anything until 2040. And the Aussies have been working on this planB for 18 months without saying anything, so they straight up lied to Macron's face.

Curious to see what that contract break is going to cost the Aussies; this is why industry does (and should) build in big costly off ramps for their strategic defence contracts with governments.

This was after the previous iteration where they did something similar with Japan then jumped ship on them too. Brutal.

Curious to see how many off the shelf boats they could have bought at this point for what they've already spent and have nothing to show for.

Hopefully we aren't completely stunned and stick with buying an off the shelf build done at the OEM facility and just focus on the extremely complex in life maintenance side of the 'strategic capability'. Then it's just some translation, IP licensing and training to figure out.
 

MilEME09

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Question becomes after so many flip flops, who would want to deal with Australia now?
 

SeaKingTacco

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Question becomes after so many flip flops, who would want to deal with Australia now?
Pretty much everyone wants to deal with them. Flip flop or not, they have a big cheque book for defence and are using it.

The potential rewards outweigh the risks.

Another way of looking at this is that the Aussies are agile and will not hesitate to fire a defence contractor.
 

dapaterson

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See also: France's views on Canada after sharing their Nuke boat IP in the late 1989s.
 

Good2Golf

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Question becomes after so many flip flops, who would want to deal with Australia now?
France really shouldn’t be too surprised. Airbus Tigers and MRH-90 Taipans we’re both incredibly lackluster capabilities and very problematic. The Aussies have been telegraphing their discontent at French defense products for more than a decade.

So the Yank and Aussie ambassadors stand there unemotionally taking the French bolliclimg, shrug and on the way out of the verbal berating high-five each other for the Neo-Anglo trilateral pact. Yanks still don’t trust the French after the shit they stirred up in SE Asia… 😉
 

GK .Dundas

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So the Yanks wouldn't sell SSNs to us but they will to Australia....guess,the world has changed , considerably I'd say
 

OldSolduer

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So the Yanks wouldn't sell SSNs to us but they will to Australia....guess,the world has changed , considerably I'd say
Our governments in the past and the current one are not worthy of the USA's trust. Pierre the First (hopefully last) wasn't informed about the US invasion of Grenada and he was put in his place by The Iron Lady.
 
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