• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

C3 Howitzer Replacement

LoboCanada

Full Member
Reaction score
72
Points
330
UK mulls 105 mm Light Gun replacement project
by Christopher F Foss
28 JULY 2021

UK mulls 105 mm Light Gun replacement project
Hart said unmanned, autonomous, and self-propelled concepts are being considered for technology development.

According to Dstl, “The study is investigating and evaluating multiple calibres and advanced projectiles in order to increase range, improve end effect, improve accuracy, improve tactical/strategic mobility, and reduce crew members.” High-explosive, illumination, smoke, and terminally guided rounds could potentially be fired.

Potential options could include a more mobile 105 mm weapon, 120 mm mortar, or a 5 inch (127 mm) naval weapon. An artist's impression, released by Dstl as an example, showed a mobile 4×4 platform armed with a 105 mm weapon.
 

GR66

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
335
Points
1,010
When deciding what system we should get to replace the C3's....105mm, 155mm, 120mm mortar, HIMARS or loitering munitions...I think the answer should be "Yes". I'm more and more thinking that the best bang for our buck (pardon the pun) in making a significant contribution in a peer conflict would be to greatly increase our indirect fires capabilities. Multiple, complementary systems for both the Reg Force and the Reserves.
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,794
Points
940
Give some units near major bases the 155's with proper gun tractor, give some units new 105mm guns, give other units 120mm mortars. Between all the Reserve Arty units each stand up a troop that is either drone, AD, small MRLS or mortar. We can slowly flesh out those Troops with equipment as it comes on line. Which unit gets which troop is determined by a variety of factors. Also buy enough tubes that each unit can eventually get back to a 6 gun/tube battery. I count 18 Reserve artillery units so that is 108 tubes potentially, more if you count attached mortar/MRLS Troops
 

Kirkhill

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
736
Points
1,060
1627598620808.png

Here's the Rheinmetal keystone - The infantry battalion Mortar Platoon - complete with FC and ISR. Others will know better than me but if each arty battery was equipped with one of these "troops" in addition to their gun troops wouldn't that allow for guns, missiles, UAVs and Air to be added.

And Colin, you might want to leave some of those units free for Air Defence? No?

 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,794
Points
940
Well i did include a number of Troops for AD, of course it might be nice to have something more than shotguns. I see a basic Reserve AD troop as two detachments, with TSM & Lt with 3 vehicles. Each detachment gets a crew cab pickup truck with 4 people, radio and a Manpad. TSM and Officer, place the units and have two signallers to support the TSM and officer. Once the detachments are established the officer stays with the HQ and oversees the networking. the TSM and sig scout out new locations and then take care of logistical and administrative issues. Eventually add another jeep like truck for the Officer & sig so they are more mobile and also support the detachments. I would also then grow the detachments to 5 which will still fit in the same truck, that spreads out sentry, radio watch and manning the Manpads, along with maintenance.
Further support is from the supported unit. Back at Garrison it gets support from it's unit.
We could develop our own AD system using whichever Manpads we decide to go with and 25mm gun from the LAV. Trailered for the Reserves and mounted for the Regs. Barring that we can start the AD troops now with .50cals with AA mounts and open sights. Not super effective but gets people into the field and start sorting out various issues, so when better equipment comes along the basic issues are resolved already.
 

GR66

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
335
Points
1,010
Curious, if we were to accept the fact that the largest force we are likely going to be able to deploy and sustain (due to equipment, logistics and manpower) is a Brigade Group, what would the typical range bands you'd be looking at for indirect fire in direct support of the Brigade Group (understanding that you'll want longer range assets for deep strike and counter-battery missions in support of the Brigade Group).
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
1,884
Points
1,040
Curious, if we were to accept the fact that the largest force we are likely going to be able to deploy and sustain (due to equipment, logistics and manpower) is a Brigade Group, what would the typical range bands you'd be looking at for indirect fire in direct support of the Brigade Group (understanding that you'll want longer range assets for deep strike and counter-battery missions in support of the Brigade Group).
That's really a context question which first needs an answer to the question of where will the brigade be deployed (assuming it will be).

If we look at Latvia as our primary area of operations then a factor is that the largest calibre weapons available are our M777s (which IMHO will last around a half hour of combat) and the Latvian M109A5Os and very limited air defence. Accordingly we either supply or convince others to beef up long range strike weapons (like rockets) and a comprehensive air defence umbrella. The NATO Multinational Division - North is still a very new and fires resource poor organization.

If on the other hand if we write off the Enhanced Forward Presence as the trip wire it is and place our "brigade" elsewhere like in Poland or Germany then we would probably operate within a multinational division with some other country providing those capabilities while we would provide equipment much more commensurate with that of a manoeuvre brigade. (Incidentally, I think that the likely future force construct will include both SHORAD as part of the brigade establishment as well as deep strike sense and act capabilities to neutralize/counteract opposition fires resources.)

The range bands will depend entirely on the technical capabilities weapon designers are currently developing on both sides of the line.

🍻
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,794
Points
940
Range bands against Russian or Chinese Forces have better be long and deep with lot's of resources.
 

GR66

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
335
Points
1,010
Sorry, I may not have been clear on what I was asking. For a force the size of a Mechanized Brigade Group (let's assume in a European conflict scenario vs Russia), is there a particular range band within which you'd want your integral Artillery Regiment to work within to provide intimate indirect fire support to the Brigade Group?

For example, I'm guessing that you'd want the Brigade Artillery to have the ability to strike at least a certain distance beyond the line of contact with the enemy in order to disrupt enemy operations beyond the immediate battle zone while at the same time I'm guessing you may want the Brigade Artillery to be no further than a certain distance back from the main body of the Brigade both to minimize the flight time of their rounds, but also so they are not too vulnerable to being cut off from the main body by enemy forces.
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,794
Points
940
A new video of 56 Field Artillery Regiment's (M777) C Troop. In June 2020 the Regiment was given the Mission Task of developing a M777 Troop to Augment 2nd Regiment / 2e Régiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery . Less than 9 months later C Troop would conduct its first independent live fire exercise. In March 2020 Exercise C54 GUNNER was conducted to confirm both C Troop and the Regiment’s M777 Conversion Course, marking the first M777 Troop for the Army Reserve. Both the Troop and the Exercise were named in honour of the 54th Battery, which in which in 1940 was selected to augment 1 RCHA in 1940 as C/54 Battery for their deployment with the 1st Canadian Division to France. The Gunners from C/54 Battery would end up fighting the entire war with the 1 RCHA.
There were several important contributions in the training and development of C Troop. It is important to note LCol Sarah Heer and the leadership of 2nd Regiment / 2e Régiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, for their support of this important initiative of integrating the Regular Force and the Army Reserve into one effective team. The Troop also benefitted from the experienced leadership in 56 Field Artillery Regiment which included several officers and NCOs with M777 operational experience. This included several Afghanistan Veterans, who served with M777 Batteries on operations, and the Regiment's reconnaissance detachment that recently served with 2 RCHA’s Thunder Battery on Operation REASSURANCE in Latvia.

 

MilEME09

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
716
Points
940
So does this mean a shift of having all RCA on one common platform, regardless of being Reg or Res?
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
2,380
Points
890
No.

It means 2 RCHA is actively supporting Reserve units to get gunners trained on the M777 so they can more easily augment Reg F deployments.

They have previously conducted similar training with other units, such as 49 Fd Regt in Sault Ste Marie.
 

Colin Parkinson

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
1,794
Points
940
So does this mean a shift of having all RCA on one common platform, regardless of being Reg or Res?
There not enough M777 for the Regs, much less all the Reserve units. With the way things are looking, basic gunnery in the Reserves will be done at the hall with drill/saluting only 105's, live fire with 81mm mortars and possibly a course on the M777's as the peak.
 

Maxman1

Member
Reaction score
108
Points
580
How about the GC-45, both to fill in the gaps in the regular units that lack the M777 and give reserve units a 155mm, and adopt the South African G7 105mm to replace the C3.

Also 120mm mortars for artillery and give infantry 60 and 81mm mortars.
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
696
Points
990
There not enough M777 for the Regs, much less all the Reserve units. With the way things are looking, basic gunnery in the Reserves will be done at the hall with drill/saluting only 105's, live fire with 81mm mortars and possibly a course on the M777's as the peak.
So literally no change from now.
 
Top