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CAF Beard policy-CANFORGEN 158/18

dapaterson

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So, regimental beard committee at D+30, squadron at D+15, troop at D+7, and section at D+2 means you better be able to grow a beard within 48 hours...
 

Jarnhamar

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Are members who grow beards for religious reasons held to the same beard grooming standards as everyone else?  ie 2 cm, clean neck etc..
 

PMedMoe

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Jarnhamar said:
Are members who grow beards for religious reasons held to the same beard grooming standards as everyone else?  ie 2 cm, clean neck etc..

They weren't before the CANFORGEN. Why would they be now?
 

Blackadder1916

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So, as I sit here stroking my graying, mandatory post-retirement beard in contemplation, I'm left wondering "what is a beard?".  Damn near everything else in the military has an official definition, but other than the drawing of what should be the limits of a beard in dress instructions there are no other definitions.  When does being "unshaven" become a beard?  I have my idea of the delineation, but, like Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio, it is very much "I know it when I see it".  "Scruffy" is not a beard; it is an attitude that does not project the vision of discipline expected in a military force.  Stubble is not a beard; it is a fashion choice oft associated with pastel suits, sports cars and Miami nightlife, not to mention Italian (or other Mediterranean European) gigolos on beaches in banana hammocks.

Yes, I may be a dinosaur in the minds of those who think they should be able to do as they please as long as they think "it doesn't affect their job".  However, I expect a certain level of consistency in dress and deportment of members of the CAF.  I have no problems with any and all in uniform growing a beard (if they have the hormonal fortitude to do so), I once had a good start on full facial hair (I already had the pornstar 'stache) while working with 3VP's pioneer platoon about 4 decades ago.  And I also remember similar angst (though far from the horror portrayed here) in the 1970s when the creeping length of sideburns sent RSMs into spasm.  The CANFORGEN was poorly written; what I assume was to be a change to dress instruction to no longer limit beards to Navy types and infantry pioneers (if such an animal still exists) as long as operational requirements (and that being the "only" restriction) were met, instead now seems to be an accepted policy of soldiers can do whatever the fuck they want with regards facial hair.
 

meni0n

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daftandbarmy said:
You, Sir, have won the internet for the day. Thank you for that.  :rofl:

I wish I was joking but that's what the SSM said. After 30 days of growing your beard, a beard committee will inspect it to see if it's a successful attempt or not. I wonder if there is a course the beard committee members have to take. Beard Officianados DP1 ?

 

dapaterson

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PER points.  "Successfully disqualified 17 beards during the reporting period."
 

vonGarvin

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Is this the beard committee?

 

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meni0n

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I imagine it would more like that...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/es.starwars/images/3/34/Sal%C3%B3n_del_Alto_Consejo_Jedi.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20061126175649
 

PuckChaser

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I'm confused at where people are reading that the lower neck and cheekbones have to be clean shaven every day?

4.WHERE THE WEARING OF A BEARD IS AUTHORIZED:

A. IT SHALL BE WORN WITH A MOUSTACHE,

B. IT SHALL BE NEATLY TRIMMED, ESPECIALLY ON THE LOWER NECK AND CHEEKBONES,

C. IT SHALL NOT EXCEED TWO CENTIMETERS IN BULK. A MEMBER WILL, ON THEIR OWN ACCORD OR UPON DIRECTION FROM THEIR COMMANDING OFFICER OR THEIR CO S DESIGNATE, SHAVE OFF UNSUCCESSFUL ATTEMPTS TO GROW A BEARD.

5.THE DIRECTION PERTAINING TO THE TRIMMING OF A BEARD AT PARA 5 ABOVE DOES NOT APPLY TO CAF MEMBERS WHO ARE EXEMPT, FOR MEDICAL REASONS, FROM SHAVING THE LOWER NECK OR CHEECKBONES

4.B. says neatly trimmed, not clean shaven. That means no hipster neck-beards, but does not mean you have to have it clean shaven every day.
 

QV

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Blackadder1916 said:
So, as I sit here stroking my graying, mandatory post-retirement beard in contemplation, I'm left wondering "what is a beard?".  Damn near everything else in the military has an official definition, but other than the drawing of what should be the limits of a beard in dress instructions there are no other definitions.  When does being "unshaven" become a beard?  I have my idea of the delineation, but, like Potter Stewart in Jacobellis v. Ohio, it is very much "I know it when I see it".  "Scruffy" is not a beard; it is an attitude that does not project the vision of discipline expected in a military force.  Stubble is not a beard; it is a fashion choice oft associated with pastel suits, sports cars and Miami nightlife, not to mention Italian (or other Mediterranean European) gigolos on beaches in banana hammocks.

Yes, I may be a dinosaur in the minds of those who think they should be able to do as they please as long as they think "it doesn't affect their job".  However, I expect a certain level of consistency in dress and deportment of members of the CAF.  I have no problems with any and all in uniform growing a beard (if they have the hormonal fortitude to do so), I once had a good start on full facial hair (I already had the pornstar 'stache) while working with 3VP's pioneer platoon about 4 decades ago.  And I also remember similar angst (though far from the horror portrayed here) in the 1970s when the creeping length of sideburns sent RSMs into spasm.  The CANFORGEN was poorly written; what I assume was to be a change to dress instruction to no longer limit beards to Navy types and infantry pioneers (if such an animal still exists) as long as operational requirements (and that being the "only" restriction) were met, instead now seems to be an accepted policy of soldiers can do whatever the frig they want with regards facial hair.

The view on this is definitely going to be varied.  I suppose you could you look at this with similar discontent as those not entirely thrilled with the waxed handle bar moustache standard which was popular with soldiers in the 19th century through to WWI (according to Wikipedia) and still sported to this day by some.   
 

runormal

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PuckChaser said:
I'm confused at where people are reading that the lower neck and cheekbones have to be clean shaven every day?

4.B. says neatly trimmed, not clean shaven. That means no hipster neck-beards, but does not mean you have to have it clean shaven every day.

I guess, I assumed that neatly trimmed meant that the beard itself would be neatly trimmed/styled. In my opinion, this would require one to keep the cheeks/cheeks shaven. Otherwise, it wouldn't look neat.

 

PMedMoe

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Jarnhamar said:
One standard to hold everyone to.

Before the CANFORGEN, they were not held at the same standard due to religion.  Don't see why that would change.

Should the indigenous males allowed to have long hair get it cut now too??
 

PuckChaser

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PMedMoe said:
Before the CANFORGEN, they were not held at the same standard due to religion.  Don't see why that would change.

Should the indigenous males allowed to have long hair get it cut now too??
No, but everyone else should be allowed to have it if they want. It clearly doesn't have any negative impacts operationally or with discipline, or no one would be allowed to have long hair.
 

Jarnhamar

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PMedMoe said:
Before the CANFORGEN, they were not held at the same standard due to religion.  Don't see why that would change.

Should the indigenous males allowed to have long hair get it cut now too??

I was thinking the opposite. I'm not suggesting people who grow beards for religious reasons cut their beards in accordance with the dress regs rather people who want to grow a beard can do so in the same manner as someone who claims growing a (non-trimmed) beard brings them closer to Jesus or Xenu (or in my case the God-Emperor of mankind).

"Should indigenous males cut their hair?"  Nope. Why not just let all guys grow long hair? I hear it might improve recruiting.


Serious question, if a biological woman with long hair identifies as a male does he have to cut his hair according to male dress regs?
 

Lumber

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Jarnhamar said:
Serious question, if a biological woman with long hair identifies as a male does he have to cut his hair according to male dress regs?

Yes.
 

PuckChaser

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Jarnhamar said:
Serious question, if a biological woman with long hair identifies as a male does he have to cut his hair according to male dress regs?

What if that biological woman identifies as non-binary? Our grooming standards (written in the 80s) don't cover that.
 
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