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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

Good2Golf

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It wouldn’t have been. This didn’t become a front page issue until a crisis happened. When was the last time O’toole mentioned it before all of this? Not to mention the tighter restrictions the CPC had in place as to who could come to Canada.


this from 2012. And take a close look at Kenney’s statement on Canada not having any obligation to anyone working with Canada after 2012.

politicians are pretty much the same regardless of them being RED or BLUE. I have no doubt we’d be in the same boat right now if team blue was in charge.

So yes, I agree with Dimsum’s cynicism.
Nice whatabout-ism…O’Toole wasn’t even an MP then. Kenney is the Alberta premier, so if you have an issue with him or the Government before O’Toole, take it up with him, or Evil Harper.

For O’Toole, both as a cabinet minister and an opposition member, he demonstrably worked to bring Afghan interpreters to Canada, so that’s his record.

So in the political world of splitting hairs, yes, that makes O’Toole fundamentally better than Trudeau. O’Toole was pushing for Afghan terps early into the TB operations…quite the opposite from the laconic, dragging, dithering, poll-driven ways of Trudeau & Co.
 

Remius

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Nice whatabout-ism…O’Toole wasn’t even an MP then. Kenney is the Alberta premier, so if you have an issue with him or the Government before O’Toole, take it up with him, or Evil Harper.

For O’Toole, both as a cabinet minister and an opposition member, he demonstrably worked to bring Afghan interpreters to Canada, so that’s his record.

So in the political world of splitting hairs, yes, that makes O’Toole fundamentally better than Trudeau. O’Toole was pushing for Afghan terps early into the TB operations…quite the opposite from the laconic, dragging, dithering, poll-driven ways of Trudeau & Co.
It isn’t what aboutism. It’s cynicism. Both parties could care less unless it suits them. They both have that very Long record on those issues. I don’t share your optimism about politicians of any stripe.

Edit to add: Trudeau is the current PM. He gets to wear this, and should. But do t kid yourself that this would be any better under CPC leadership.
 

Good2Golf

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I can be just as cynical as the next guy…I just prefer to go with the moniker “pragmatic realist.” However, that doesn’t force me to paint all parties as identical. You make it seam as though a CPC government would also have been a poll-driven responsive government like the Liberals. I won’t my healthy cynicism actually buy that. Heck, at the very least, it was the CPC government that bought the C-17s that extracted the….3,700 Canadians and Afghans from Kabul.
 

FSTO

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I can be just as cynical as the next guy…I just prefer to go with the moniker “pragmatic realist.” However, that doesn’t force me to paint all parties as identical. You make it seam as though a CPC government would also have been a poll-driven responsive government like the Liberals. I won’t my healthy cynicism actually buy that. Heck, at the very least, it was the CPC government that bought the C-17s that extracted the….3,700 Canadians and Afghans from Kabul.
I keep reminding people that the Luba called the C17 purchase, useless.
 

Remius

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I can be just as cynical as the next guy…I just prefer to go with the moniker “pragmatic realist.” However, that doesn’t force me to paint all parties as identical. You make it seam as though a CPC government would also have been a poll-driven responsive government like the Liberals. I won’t my healthy cynicism actually buy that. Heck, at the very least, it was the CPC government that bought the C-17s that extracted the….3,700 Canadians and Afghans from Kabul.

No doubt. They would certainly be poll driven if the issue became a crisis. Like I said, the CPC laid the ground work for the bureaucratic process. One that wasn’t changed until it became a political problem. The CPC have a record on bringing interpreters and based on that record and position we can infer that we would be in the same situation right now regardless.

If the CPC was currently in power it would be Harper or Scheer. O’toole would not be the current leader anyway. So while not poll driven they would be base driven and the base would have had other interests just like the rest of Canada does when it comes to Afghanistan.

So back in June there would have been a scramble to change the rules the CPC created, a struggle to get enough assets on the ground, the opposition Liberals would be talking about how they wouldn’t have screwed this up just like the CPC opposition is doing now. And we would only be able to get out what we have currently done.


The only thing that changes is the window dressing and fluff.

The fact is, the world procrastinated on this, underestimated the Taliban and now people are paying for it with their lives. Having the CPC or LPC in power wouldn’t have changed that one bit.

the conservatives could have fixed this when they were in power, the liberals could have fixed this since but neither did because they didn’t really care to.
 

SeaKingTacco

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It isn’t what aboutism. It’s cynicism. Both parties could care less unless it suits them. They both have that very Long record on those issues. I don’t share your optimism about politicians of any stripe.

Edit to add: Trudeau is the current PM. He gets to wear this, and should. But do t kid yourself that this would be any better under CPC leadership.
This will probably come as no surprise, based on my Army.ca name, but I actually know Erin O’Toole on a personal level.

He is actually the real deal. You are not seeing an act. He is a genuinely nice guy.

That is a data point of one, from some random internet guy. Sometimes, cynicism is not warranted.
 

Remius

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This will probably come as no surprise, based on my Army.ca name, but I actually know Erin O’Toole on a personal level.

He is actually the real deal. You are not seeing an act. He is a genuinely nice guy.

That is a data point of one, from some random internet guy. Sometimes, cynicism is not warranted.
I have no reason to doubt you. But that does not change the fact that we would likely be no further ahead under a CPC government at this time.

so far i am pleasantly impressed by how O’toole is running his campaign. But the cynicism in regards to politicians is based on recorded facts and events. Plenty of nice guys get into and are in politics. That doesn’t mean the political system or the way it’s run adjusts to the nice guys.

so when Dimsum posits that he doubts things would be any better in this situation is a well founded observation.
 

Remius

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I'd take "likely" over zero.....
Sure. We can fantasize all we want. Nothing changes the situation we are in. Trudeau gets to wear this, he has to answer for it. And so far it’s a mouth full of marbles coming from him. Will Canadians make this an issue though? I doubt it. healthcare and housing seem to be the bigger issues for them. And that’s for the ones that might actually care to show up at the polls.

Most people on this forum are invested in this issue. I’m not sure it’s that important outside the circles we run in.
 

Journeyman

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Waiting for this to become part of the political finger-pointing..... 🤨

U.S. officials provided Taliban with names of Americans, Afghan allies to evacuate​

“Basically, they just put all those Afghans on a kill list,” said one defense official.
 

dimsum

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I have no reason to doubt you. But that does not change the fact that we would likely be no further ahead under a CPC government at this time.

so far i am pleasantly impressed by how O’toole is running his campaign. But the cynicism in regards to politicians is based on recorded facts and events. Plenty of nice guys get into and are in politics. That doesn’t mean the political system or the way it’s run adjusts to the nice guys.

so when Dimsum posits that he doubts things would be any better in this situation is a well founded observation.
Basically like he said.

I don't know any of the candidates. They may all be amazing people. Unfortunately, what they are like as people is secondary to what the party platforms and policies are like.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Come on people,.....too far is too far, no need to be jerk-offs. Nice that both the Tories and NDP put out messages of support for Mr. Trudeau.

A Liberal campaign rally scheduled for Friday evening in Bolton, Ont., was cancelled amid protests.
Leader Justin Trudeau was expected to address supporters, but the event was cancelled over security concerns.

Dozens of angry protesters, who outnumbered Liberal supporters, gathered near the Bolton rally and began chanting obscenities before Trudeau could make his address.
After a nearly two-hour delay, a man took to the loud speaker to announce that the event was cancelled, to which the crowd reacted with more shouting.

The OPP was called in to escort the campaign bus away from the site. [MORE ON LINK}
 

MilEME09

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I'm not surprised by this at all, I don't care what your views are on vaccines, vaccine passports, etc.... you start being a total ass in front of children, you are just a terrible person.
 

Jarnhamar

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Come on people,.....too far is too far, no need to be jerk-offs. Nice that both the Tories and NDP put out messages of support for Mr. Trudeau.

I bet the person the most happy about those protests is Trudeau.

He doesn't have to open his mouth and make a fool of himself.
He can save his desperate election promises for another day.
And he can (try to) play into the mean scary right wing boogymen being a threat; though awkwardly the demographics of the protestors don't appear to cater very well to the typical LPC right-wing white male racist mold.
 
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SeaKingTacco

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I bet the person the most happy about those protests is Trudeau.

He doesn't have to open his mouth and make a fool of himself.
He can save his desperate election promises for another day.
And he can (try to) play into the mean scary right wing boogymen being a threat; though awkwardly the demographics of the protestors don't appear to cater very well to the typical LPC right-wing white male racist mold.
Nothing that a good lying, manipulated tweet can’t fix…
 

Altair

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I bet the person the most happy about those protests is Trudeau.

He doesn't have to open his mouth and make a fool of himself.
He can save his desperate election promises for another day.
And he can (try to) play into the mean scary right wing boogymen being a threat; though awkwardly the demographics of the protestors don't appear to cater very well to the typical LPC right-wing white male racist mold.
Wow.

I'm done.

See you all after the election.
 
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