Canadian soldiers 'prepared to kill'

[McG]

Canadian soldiers 'prepared to kill'
Afghanistan 'a dangerous environment,' says general who will command troops
JEFF SALLOT
From Friday's Globe and Mail
03 Feb 06

OTTAWA — Canadian soldiers are ready to kill and die in Afghanistan if need be to keep that country from ever again becoming a nest for terrorists, says the general who will command the troops in Kandahar.

"This is a dangerous mission. This is a dangerous environment," Brigadier-General David Fraser said yesterday. "And I cannot reduce the risk to zero."

But the 2,200 Canadians he will lead are extremely well trained and have excellent equipment, he said. "We will do our best to come back with everyone."

The general did not want to spell out the rules his soldiers will follow in deciding when they can use lethal force. Rules of engagement are considered a military secret. But he made it clear that the troops can engage in offensive operations to deal pre-emptively with a threat.

"Can I defend myself? Yes. Can I take offensive action? Yes."

At another point, he said, "We are prepared to kill if we have to."

But killing is the "last thing I want to do," Gen. Fraser said, emphasizing the humanitarian aspects of the mission.

The Canadian contingent, which will be fully deployed by the end of this month, will become the backbone of a larger international force that is helping the Afghan central government establish its authority in Kandahar province, a former Taliban stronghold. In the summer, Gen. Fraser and his Canadian troops will take on the lead role in the southern province, which has been the domain of U.S. forces since the fall of the Taliban regime in 2002.

U.S. troops have been suffering heavier casualties recently during counterinsurgency operations in parts of the province. In addition, international forces have been encountering ever more powerful homemade bombs. A Canadian diplomat was killed and three soldiers seriously wounded in a suicide bomb attack in the province last month.

"This is not a nice place," Gen. Fraser said during a media briefing at National Defence Headquarters.

But he did not believe this indicated that the security situation in the province was deteriorating. Rather, it may mean that the Afghan government and international forces are more successful now in taking the fight to the enemy.

The Canadian contingent is officially designated as a Provincial Reconstruction Team with a mandate to monitor security, promote the policies and priorities of the Afghan government and to help improve local security forces. In addition to the 2,200 soldiers it will include a couple of RCMP advisers to the local Afghan civil police.

Afghanistan is the leading recipient of Canadian foreign aid, with Ottawa pledging more than $600-million in assistance during this decade.

Canadian soldiers were among the first to join U.S. forces in attacking al-Qaeda terrorist camps in eastern Afghanistan after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. More than 6,000 Canadians have served a tour of duty in Afghanistan since then.

Eight have died, including four Canadian soldiers who were accidentally killed when an American fighter pilot bombed them, mistaking their nighttime training exercise for anti-aircraft fire.

Despite the dangers, Gen. Fraser said he thinks the Canadian public fully supports this expanded Afghan mission. He compared his troops to the Canadian Olympic gold-medal hockey team. "My soldiers are pumped about going over there."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060203.wxafghan03/BNStory/International/home

 

[McG]

I always thought the PRT was just a part of our contingent.  Suppose there might be other errors above?

 

[Sig_Des]

I respect the fact that Gen. Fraser actually made those comments. It's not easy to say things like that in the public eye nowadays. A lot of people will probably take offence to it, but it needed to be said, and it's nice to hear it from up high.

 

[winchable]

Go on to read some of the comments on that article,
It's as entertaining as it is annoying and I've discovered two things:

1. Apparently Afghanistan has an abundant supply of oil we're in need of.
2. This isn't a war we're fighting, it's something else, but it's no war.
3. Somehow George Bush is to blame for everything...ever.

Well, I hope you're all as enlightened as I was, I can tell you I've changed my ways. I've given up any aspirations of a full military career, I'm moving to a small commune in India where I am going to take the name "Sunflower Auto Nexus" and live out the rest of my days as a maker of environmentally friendly crafts and write angry letters which I won't send because supporting Mail Services is supporting corporate America.

 

[ChopperHead]

lol Che that made me laugh

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I always thought the PRT was just a part of our contingent.  Suppose there might be other errors above?

Don't get me started...

 

[COBRA-6]

Don't get me started...

Well at least they didn't call us Peacekeepers this time...

1. Apparently Afghanistan has an abundant supply of oil we're in need of.

Ah yes the Michael Moore pipeline... I love people who believe that conspiracy theory. I've tried to explain to some of my more naive friends that building said pipeline would be impossible because:

1. The construction materials would be stolen long before they could be assembled,
2. If it somehow could be built, the oil would be siphoned off before it could reach the terminus, and
3. Someone would blow it up if points 1 and 2 could be solved anyways...

 

[KevinB]

Additional Fact - Clinton proposed pipeline during Taliban reign...


Mike's 100% right.

People steal mine marking signs here as building materials...
Anyone attempting to build a pipleine woudl be bankrupted by security requirements for the materials - let alone the workers.


Closing issue - anyone armed with a weapon is prepared to use LETHAL FORCE - therefore prepared to kill.
Shocking I know  :

 

[Armymedic]

Canadian soldiers 'prepared to kill'

OMG, say it isn't so.



IRT to the T-A-P pipeline. While I was over there, the World Bank annouced grants to the Afghan govt to assist in the project and Karzi announced he would use the ANA assets neccessary to protect the pipeline and the workers when construction started.

Its not Afghanistan's oil, just the bridge between the source and the sea. I am as confident of its completion in this decade as Mike.

 

[Journeyman]

I respect the fact that Gen. Fraser actually made those comments. It's not easy to say things like that in the public eye nowadays.

It seems to be much easier for our leadership to make such comments, now that the CDS and former-Defence Minister have repeatedly made the same statements. In fact there seems to be a growing "copy-cat" effect as Gens Fraser, Leslie, et al, jump on the bandwagon, saying what serving soldiers have  known, and what our leadership SHOULD have been saying, for years. Now, it's more like these Generals are peeking out from behind the CDS saying...."ya! what he said!"

When MGen Doug Dempster (Director General of Strategic Plans) got fed up with the federal government's military abuse, he put in his release. Now that's the sort of public comment that shows bravery. Before he left, it was noted by a Parliamentary Senate Committee:

"... [MGen Dempster's testimony] was a more frank discussion than we normally get from military personnel. That might have had something to do with the fact that he was getting ready to retire, but maybe not."1


-----------------------
1  Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/commbus/senate/com-e/defe-e/25eva-e.htm?Language=E&Parl=38&Ses=1&comm_id=76

 

[ArmyRick]

Thats what soldiers do. Hope our liberal types can swallow that there is evil out there and wishing it away will not solve anything.

"Close with and DESTROY THE ENEMY".....

 

[R031button]

Go on to read some of the comments on that article,
It's as entertaining as it is annoying and I've discovered two things:

1. Apparently Afghanistan has an abundant supply of oil we're in need of.
2. This isn't a war we're fighting, it's something else, but it's no war.
3. Somehow George Bush is to blame for everything...ever.

Well, I hope you're all as enlightened as I was, I can tell you I've changed my ways. I've given up any aspirations of a full military career, I'm moving to a small commune in India where I am going to take the name "Sunflower Auto Nexus" and live out the rest of my days as a maker of environmentally friendly crafts and write angry letters which I won't send because supporting Mail Services is supporting corporate America.

I was interested to learn that the commander is supposed to turn to his "civilian oversight" to understand his role. While civilian oversight is a signifigant principal in NDHQ, I wasn't away it generated out policies and missions.

 

[a_majoor]

I was interested to learn that the commander is supposed to turn to his "civilian oversight" to understand his role. While civilian oversight is a signifigant principal in NDHQ, I wasn't away it generated out policies and missions.

I'm not sure what you mean. Civilian oversight is a critical part of how we have always done business. The government outlines our duties and responsibilities, assignes us tasks and missions and provides the funding to raise troops, train and equip them to do these tasks and missions. (The actual levels of funding compared to our actual needs is a different topic).

Historically, if we don't have proper oversight, we end up with situations like Sam Hughes foisting his pals on the Army as Colonels, and ensuring we had lots of Ross rifles, shovels with holes in them (!) and so on. Seeing the Canadian Army grinding into action that first year of WWI was horrible to watch. You can only imagine what the CF would look like today if we were to operate in that fashion.

The former government determied (for whatever reasons) that going into Afghanistan was the proper thing to do to ensure Canada's long term security. Prime Minister Harper might reveiw the situation and decide to change things. No matter what, our leaders owe it to us, our families and the Canadian public we work for to tell the truth as they see it. Gen Fraiser is doing the right thing when he speaks out like that.

 

[mo-litia]

It seems to be much easier for our leadership to make such comments, now that the CDS and former-Defence Minister have repeatedly made the same statements. In fact there seems to be a growing "copy-cat" effect as Gens Fraser, Leslie, et al, jump on the bandwagon, saying what serving soldiers have  known, and what our leadership SHOULD have been saying, for years. Now, it's more like these Generals are peeking out from behind the CDS saying...."ya! what he said!

Well said.  Still, copy-cat or not, it's nice to see the brass hats speaking out of their mouths instead of their nether regions when they are talking to the media these days.

 

[TCBF]

"People steal mine marking signs here as building materials..."

- Sure, why not?  They know where the mines are...mostly.

Peacekeeping.  I remember the "LOCKSMITH" missions in Cyprus in 1978/79.  The Mission Statement for all of them was: "Shoot to kill anyone who threatens the lives of the negotiators."

I still have the notebooks somewhere.

Tom

 

[M Feetham]

My question is what is Gordon going to do now and what happens when the present CDS's  term is up and he goes elsewhere?
Marc

 

[gunner_ty]

My question is what is Gordon going to do now and what happens when the present CDS's  term is up and he goes elsewhere?
Marc

I would have to say that any answer to that question, by anyone but Mr Gordon himself, would be speculation. Realistically you won't know until a) you ask him yourself b) he announces his plans through the media or c) he does something. So in the words of Yoda "Patience my young Skywalker"

PS: I felt the quote fitting since his name is Marc and well if you know Star Wars you know where I am going with that!

 

[M Feetham]

Point taken, now let me see what did I do with his phone num..., nope that's not it. Guess he must have forgot to send that to me when he was appointed. The nerve of some people huh? I'll just have to wait like everyone else I suppose.
I get the Star Wars/ Hammil thing but I think he spells his name with a K as in Mark. Still though, works for me. Thanks.
Marc

 

[TCBF]

Maybe Tuesdays should be Yodaspeak on Army.ca.

A good idea, I have.

Tom

 

[Haggis]

Maybe Tuesdays should be Yodaspeak on Army.ca.

A good idea, I have.

Tom

Use it all week some posters do.  On Saturday nights more seen it is, when filled with wobbly pop type we vitrolically.  Into Sunday twilight it extends.  ;D