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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

lenaitch

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Let's ask Gwenneth Paltrow. I'm sure she can whip up a version of her Goop that will cure it right away. Either that or sticking magic rocks up you butt. She has as much credibility as some other Internet experts and probably a better marketting and distribution network.
 

QV

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people are taking the version designed for animals. Which may be why they are telling people not to take it. It’s not the same as the one for humans but hey…Nobel prize and all. (It didn’t get the Nobel prize as an anti viral btw)

I don’t know IF invermectin is effective or not. And neither does the medical field right now which is why they are saying to not take it to treat COVID yet until trials can be conducted and completed which is what they are doing.

But once and if it gets approved as a treatment option, I am pretty sure that the anti vaxxers, anti science, COVID is BS mob will find a new conspiracy theory as to why Invermectin is dangerous and used to track you etc etc or some way to take away your rights and refuse to take it.

One of the biggest arguments anti vaxxers have is how fast and “experimental” vaccines for Covid are yet have no issues championing a drug that hasn’t even finished clinical trials as the solution.
It got the Nobel prize because it was one of the most significant medical discoveries since penicillin. That's an important detail for a snake oil wouldn't you think? Hilarious how people believe big pharma business and government was purely altruistic and that massive bottom dollar doesn't figure into decisions. If it was widely known ivermectin was an effective therapeutic, how much would big pharma have made on the vaccines?

A number of world leading experts in the medical have personal experience in it's effectiveness, specifically these guys that have been on the front lines dealing with COVID since the beginning.

Note Dr. Marik, what would this "snake oil salesman" know about any of this? He is only the "2nd most published critical care physician in the world ever, and is a world renowned expert in the management of sepsis – his contributions to the understanding and management of the hemodynamic, fluid, nutritional, and supportive care practices in sepsis have transformed the care of patients throughout the world. He also led the Society of Critical Care Medicine task force on corticosteroids in sepsis. He has already co-authored 10 papers on many therapeutic aspects of COVID-19."


And here are some peer reviewed papers and other medical publications in support: Essential Documents | FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance

"Ivermectin is a well-known, FDA-approved anti-parasite drug that has been used successfully for more than four decades to treat onchocerciasis “river blindness” and other parasitic diseases. It is one of the safest drugs known. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, has been given 3.7 billion times around the globe, and has won the Nobel prize for its global and historic impacts in eradicating endemic parasitic infections in many parts of the world. Our medical discovery of a rapidly growing published medical evidence base, demonstrating ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and to suppress inflammation, prompted our team to use ivermectin for prevention and treatment in all stages of COVID-19. Ivermectin is not yet FDA-approved for the treatment of COVID-19, but on Jan 14, 2021, the NIH changed their recommendation for the use of ivermectin in COVID-19 from “against” to “neutral”.

A simple risk analysis would suggest that as one of the safest drugs known, cheap to administer, and widely available, ivermectin should have favored prominently in COVID treatments (and it did in other parts of the world with success just not the media lead west). The bottom line here is the use of ivermectin was and is suppressed and there are no good reasons for that, or for the science censorship going on. This is after all a worldwide pandemic and all efforts should have been made to get it under control.

Take off the blinders.
 

PMedMoe

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What's Behind the Ivermectin-for-COVID Buzz?

"FLCCC members see their data as strong, but many experts disagree with their interpretation."

Steven Joffe, MD, MPH, a medical ethicist at the University of Pennsylvania, said he doesn't believe clinicians "should be lowering our standards of evidence because we're in a pandemic."

"This group should be advocating strongly for a large, generalizable randomized trial if they believe so strongly in the efficacy of ivermectin," Joffe said. "If in fact it is effective, the only way to convince the clinical and scientific community and allow patients all over the world to benefit is to prove the case in such a trial."

"With good data and safety monitoring, if the benefits are as overwhelming as they claim, the trial could be stopped early on the basis of interim data and the treatment rapidly instituted," Joffe added.
 

Remius

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It got the Nobel prize because it was one of the most significant medical discoveries since penicillin. That's an important detail for a snake oil wouldn't you think? Hilarious how people believe big pharma business and government was purely altruistic and that massive bottom dollar doesn't figure into decisions. If it was widely known ivermectin was an effective therapeutic, how much would big pharma have made on the vaccines?

A number of world leading experts in the medical have personal experience in it's effectiveness, specifically these guys that have been on the front lines dealing with COVID since the beginning.

Note Dr. Marik, what would this "snake oil salesman" know about any of this? He is only the "2nd most published critical care physician in the world ever, and is a world renowned expert in the management of sepsis – his contributions to the understanding and management of the hemodynamic, fluid, nutritional, and supportive care practices in sepsis have transformed the care of patients throughout the world. He also led the Society of Critical Care Medicine task force on corticosteroids in sepsis. He has already co-authored 10 papers on many therapeutic aspects of COVID-19."


And here are some peer reviewed papers and other medical publications in support: Essential Documents | FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance

"Ivermectin is a well-known, FDA-approved anti-parasite drug that has been used successfully for more than four decades to treat onchocerciasis “river blindness” and other parasitic diseases. It is one of the safest drugs known. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, has been given 3.7 billion times around the globe, and has won the Nobel prize for its global and historic impacts in eradicating endemic parasitic infections in many parts of the world. Our medical discovery of a rapidly growing published medical evidence base, demonstrating ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and to suppress inflammation, prompted our team to use ivermectin for prevention and treatment in all stages of COVID-19. Ivermectin is not yet FDA-approved for the treatment of COVID-19, but on Jan 14, 2021, the NIH changed their recommendation for the use of ivermectin in COVID-19 from “against” to “neutral”.

A simple risk analysis would suggest that as one of the safest drugs known, cheap to administer, and widely available, ivermectin should have favored prominently in COVID treatments (and it did in other parts of the world with success just not the media lead west). The bottom line here is the use of ivermectin was and is suppressed and there are no good reasons for that, or for the science censorship going on. This is after all a worldwide pandemic and all efforts should have been made to get it under control.

Take off the blinders.
Um, I didn’t call it snake oil. What censorship? The FDA is currently looking into and suggests that it only be used in clinical settings. Sorry, but the fact that you are using a “simple” risk analysis shows why this drug needs more actual trials. These things require more than just “simple” risk analysis.

let the experts handle it. But I am sure once it’s approved by the system, you’ll be here claiming it’s rigged and will promote then next yet to be proven thing, I get it, I’m not trying to convince you though.
 

Haggis

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Another potential speed bump on the road to Canada's COVID-19 economic recovery as Canadian Border Services Officers (NOT "Border Guards") are now in a legal strike position right before Trudeau plans to re-open the border to fully vaccinated US citizens and permanent residents. But this one is well within the Liberal government's ability to quickly overcome as the BSOs have been without a contract for over three years already.
 

Altair

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It got the Nobel prize because it was one of the most significant medical discoveries since penicillin. That's an important detail for a snake oil wouldn't you think?
Shit,penicillin won the Nobel prize?

It must work great against covid 19. Wow, I solved the pandemic!
 

QV

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Um, I didn’t call it snake oil. What censorship? The FDA is currently looking into and suggests that it only be used in clinical settings. Sorry, but the fact that you are using a “simple” risk analysis shows why this drug needs more actual trials. These things require more than just “simple” risk analysis.

let the experts handle it. But I am sure once it’s approved by the system, you’ll be here claiming it’s rigged and will promote then next yet to be proven thing, I get it, I’m not trying to convince you though.
Listen to yourself. The experts are being censored and suppressed. I know it's hard for you to differentiate but I'm not a medical expert, I'm just pointing out what other medical experts are saying about it.
 

Scott

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Um, I didn’t call it snake oil. What censorship? The FDA is currently looking into and suggests that it only be used in clinical settings. Sorry, but the fact that you are using a “simple” risk analysis shows why this drug needs more actual trials. These things require more than just “simple” risk analysis.

let the experts handle it. But I am sure once it’s approved by the system, you’ll be here claiming it’s rigged and will promote then next yet to be proven thing, I get it, I’m not trying to convince you though.
You didn't take off yer blinders, bud.
 

QV

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Shit,penicillin won the Nobel prize?

It must work great against covid 19. Wow, I solved the pandemic!
With rational and logical input like this, I'm not sure how we can't have more interesting discussions.
 

Remius

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Listen to yourself. The experts are being censored and suppressed. I know it's hard for you to differentiate but I'm not a medical expert, I'm just pointing out what other medical experts are saying about it.
Trust me. I can clearly differentiate you from a medical expert. And I’m not arguing what those experts are saying. I think it’s worth looking into. But the right way. Accelerate the process, show the evidence and get it out. But it’s that exact process people like you have been criticizing.

it’s the same reason why Pfizer’s third dose isn’t exactly being endorsed right now. It came from Pfizer, not peer reviewed or widely tested yet. basic Science says a booster is a good thing and increases efficacy. But is it needed? Maybe maybe not so the experts are saying it needs more study before it can be definitive so isn’t recommended.

but conspiracy theorists won’t see the fallacy of their own arguments about this being a big pharma fix with the govt in on it. Pharma is big business so a third shot increases business to be sure, so why hasn’t govt got on board if they are in on it? Not everything is a tin foil plot.
 

Remius

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With rational and logical input like this, I'm not sure how we can't have more interesting discussions.
But you used that exact logic to make a point. Just because it won a Nobel prize doesn’t make it effective against Covid. That’s neither here nor there.
 

QV

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But you used that exact logic to make a point. Just because it won a Nobel prize doesn’t make it effective against Covid. That’s neither here nor there.
No. Altair referred to snake oil and snake oil salesmen. Ivermectin is anything but and the fact it's discovery and 40 years of use is worthy of the Nobel prize is important to that discussion.
 

Altair

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No. Altair referred to snake oil and snake oil salesmen. Ivermectin is anything but and the fact it's discovery and 40 years of use is worthy of the Nobel prize is important to that discussion.
Penicillin isn't snake oil, it won a Nobel prize, what are you talking about?

Penicillin should be worthy of discussion when talking about potential covid 19 cures.

Edit: I'm going to go make youtube videos about it to make it more official.
 
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Remius

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No. Altair referred to snake oil and snake oil salesmen. Ivermectin is anything but and the fact it's discovery and 40 years of use is worthy of the Nobel prize is important to that discussion.
And was used to treat something else. Can it be used for COVID? Maybe maybe not, not enough studies have been done.

The issue I have is whenever someone puts up what they think might be a good thing to fight Covid, whnen it gets pointed that not enough peer review or studies have been done then it amounts to “censorship” or doctors being suppressed. And somehow the govt and big pharma is involved. EVERY TIME. It’s getting old. The fact that the WP had a recent article on it doesn’t really smack of censorship nor the fact that the NIH switched from against to neutral smacks of some sort of suppression.
 

Altair

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And was used to treat something else. Can it be used for COVID? Maybe maybe not, not enough studies have been done.

The issue I have is whenever someone puts up what they think might be a good thing to fight Covid, whnen it gets pointed that not enough peer review or studies have been done then it amounts to “censorship” or doctors being suppressed. And somehow the govt and big pharma is involved. EVERY TIME. It’s getting old. The fact that the WP had a recent article on it doesn’t really smack of censorship nor the fact that the NIH switched from against to neutral smacks of some sort of suppression.
I'm still waiting for hydroxychloroquine to save us all.

No worries though,penicillin won a nobel prize
 

QV

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And was used to treat something else. Can it be used for COVID? Maybe maybe not, not enough studies have been done.

The issue I have is whenever someone puts up what they think might be a good thing to fight Covid, whnen it gets pointed that not enough peer review or studies have been done then it amounts to “censorship” or doctors being suppressed. And somehow the govt and big pharma is involved. EVERY TIME. It’s getting old. The fact that the WP had a recent article on it doesn’t really smack of censorship nor the fact that the NIH switched from against to neutral smacks of some sort of suppression.
It's now getting out finally because of it's demonstrated success in COVID treatments.
 

Altair

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It's now getting out finally because of it's demonstrated success in COVID treatments.
The same demonstrated success as Hydroxychloroquine, Vitamin D, Remdesivir, and Lopinavir?
 
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