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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

brihard

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Of course, it is I being immature.
More than anyone else here, yes. Consistently, for weeks. You and I have had, I think, zero beef ever on this page, and are often on the same side of issues (including the ones here) so there should be no suspicion of ulterior motives on my part when I say this: your constant clinging, for weeks now, to old estimates, beliefs, opinions, spitballing, and ‘bets’ around vaccine rollout is long past tiresome, and frankly is juvenile and pathetic. Your constant harping on this has detracted from the quality of discussion, and, I think, has damaged your own credibility even in the eyes of those of us who often find you mostly on point with regards to the facts. Give it a friggin’ rest. You’re engaging in discussions here as if this board is a basketball game and you’re desperate to get at least a hundred points on the board. Make your point, critique those of others, offer your counters where appropriate... But these ‘gotcha’ games turned petulant a long time ago and it’s only your own credibility suffering.
 

Jarnhamar

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I think the GOC's (i.e LPC) decision to offer mixed vaccines was a great idea. It helped curb the number of infections and probably saved lives. It was a gamble and it looks like it paid off as there appears to be evidence mixing vaccines offers more protection. They did great.

Their initial response, from their typical goto of playing race cards to wasting months dealing with China and CanSino was shit and probably cost lives.

They got a hell of a lot of vaccines in and Canada is now one of the most vaccinated countries, so credit goes to them for that. True to form, the most transparent government ever is hiding the details and the contracts are probably full of shady dealings.
 

Altair

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More than anyone else here, yes. Consistently, for weeks. You and I have had, I think, zero beef ever on this page, and are often on the same side of issues (including the ones here) so there should be no suspicion of ulterior motives on my part when I say this: your constant clinging, for weeks now, to old estimates, beliefs, opinions, spitballing, and ‘bets’ around vaccine rollout is long past tiresome, and frankly is juvenile and pathetic. Your constant harping on this has detracted from the quality of discussion, and, I think, has damaged your own credibility even in the eyes of those of us who often find you mostly on point with regards to the facts. Give it a friggin’ rest. You’re engaging in discussions here as if this board is a basketball game and you’re desperate to get at least a hundred points on the board. Make your point, critique those of others, offer your counters where appropriate... But these ‘gotcha’ games turned petulant a long time ago and it’s only your own credibility suffering.
I don't really care one way or another about "my" credibility.

That said, imagine if Canada faltered. Do you imagine for a second I wouldn't be hearing about it until the end of time?

People here are playing politics with a pandemic, and I am unapologetic about responding in kind. There is the other covid thread for non political covid talk and I haven't said a word about it there.

And after it all, Jarnhamar is still playing politics with a pandemic. Do we,really, in all seriousness, give a damn if T&T doesn't recognize vaccine mixing? Is that what we need to be concerned about? 26k+ dead Canadians, and we need to be concerned about travel? How about if the vaccines worked? No, not talking about that. How about our vaccine coverage, now one of of the highest in the world? No, not talking about that.

Travel to T&T, it was a joke and I responded in kind.
 

Jarnhamar

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Do we,really, in all seriousness, give a damn if T&T doesn't recognize vaccine mixing?
Well we know some Canadians don't care about anything that doesn't immediately affect them.

Is mixed-vaccinated Canadians having their vaccinated status rejected abroad a political issue? Yup, I think so. YMMV, and that's okay.
 
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RangerRay

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The government is lucky that mixing and matching vaccines with longer time periods between doses is working out for them so far. Quite the gamble to take when the vaccine manufacturers and experts like Dr. Fauci recommended against it. All to cover their incompetence in acquiring vaccines when they became available. It still doesn’t make me feel comfortable that the government would undertake a population-level experiment without our consent, only to save political face.
 

Altair

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The government is lucky that mixing and matching vaccines with longer time periods between doses is working out for them so far. Quite the gamble to take when the vaccine manufacturers and experts like Dr. Fauci recommended against it. All to cover their incompetence in acquiring vaccines when they became available. It still doesn’t make me feel comfortable that the government would undertake a population-level experiment without our consent, only to save political face.

You're right, it was a gamble. But remember early on when people said why could we not be like Israel, topping the world in vaccine coverage? Israel reached that level by gambling on being the world's guinea pig, providing quick data on population level vaccine response.

Canada, in its own gamble, took limited data, saw that mixing provided good protection, and ran with it. And now we are providing the world with data that mixing may be better than 2 doses of the same vaccine.

As a result, we are near top in the world, and our mixing may provide the best immune response.

Sometimes being audacious pays off.
 

Altair

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I would feel better if I knew our governments (federal and provincial) weren’t gambling with the health of Canadians to cover up their incompetence and/or for political gain.
We all would I imagine.

I guess at the end of the day, we just need to trust that the Canadian scientists that make the recommendations that the politicians are gambling on know enough to not kill us all.

Canadian scientists may have fluked Canadians into the best immune response on the globe. Who would have thought that a few months ago?
 

Fishbone Jones

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Another , another country.
I would feel better if I knew our governments (federal and provincial) weren’t gambling with the health of Canadians to cover up their incompetence and/or for political gain.
Too late, that ship sailed, a long time ago. Just when you think it's all good, here comes the government 'to help' again.
 

QV

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...We have 26k+ deaths in this country, we spent more in the past year than inflation adjusted total for all of WW2...
I just wanted to remind everyone we did all this for something that is still LESS deaths than from medical fuck ups every year. Carry on...
 

Altair

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I just wanted to remind everyone we did all this for something that is still LESS deaths than from medical fuck ups every year. Carry on...
Because we did this it was only 26k dead Canadians.

If we didn't we could be looking at triple that number.

For reference to the discussion,

Covid-19 deaths per 100,000 as of 28 March 2021. Per Johns Hopkins University,

United Kingdom 190.73

United States 167.75

Canada 61.60


Carry on...
 

daftandbarmy

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Meanwhile, Florida unvaccinated man...

Florida’s COVID-19 hospitalizations surpass 10,200 setting pandemic record​

A day after it recorded the most new daily cases since the start of the pandemic, Florida on Sunday broke a previous record for current hospitalizations, as the number of patients in hospitals because of COVID-19 once again broke through the 1,000-person threshold.
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The Sunshine State had 10,207 people hospitalized with confirmed COVID-19 cases, according to data reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.

The previous record was from more than a year ago, July 23, 2020, more than a half-year before vaccinations started becoming widespread, when Florida had 10,170 hospitalizations, according to the Florida Hospital Association.

Florida is now leading the nation in per capita hospitalizations for COVID-19, as hospitals around the state report having to put emergency room visitors in beds in hallways and others document a noticeable drop in the age of patients.

In the past week, Florida has averaged 1,525 adult hospitalizations a day, and 35 daily pediatric hospitalizations. Both are the highest per capita rate in the nation, according to Jason Salemi, an associate professor of epidemiology at the University of South Florida.

Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has resisted mandatory mask mandates and vaccine requirements, and along with the state Legislature, has limited local officials’ ability to impose restrictions meant to stop the spread of COVID-19. DeSantis on Friday barred school districts from requiring students to wear masks when classes resume next month.

 

OceanBonfire

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The divide is getting bigger and bigger between the vaccinated and non-vaccinated:



 

Altair

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It got the Nobel prize because it was one of the most significant medical discoveries since penicillin. That's an important detail for a snake oil wouldn't you think? Hilarious how people believe big pharma business and government was purely altruistic and that massive bottom dollar doesn't figure into decisions. If it was widely known ivermectin was an effective therapeutic, how much would big pharma have made on the vaccines?

A number of world leading experts in the medical have personal experience in it's effectiveness, specifically these guys that have been on the front lines dealing with COVID since the beginning.

Note Dr. Marik, what would this "snake oil salesman" know about any of this? He is only the "2nd most published critical care physician in the world ever, and is a world renowned expert in the management of sepsis – his contributions to the understanding and management of the hemodynamic, fluid, nutritional, and supportive care practices in sepsis have transformed the care of patients throughout the world. He also led the Society of Critical Care Medicine task force on corticosteroids in sepsis. He has already co-authored 10 papers on many therapeutic aspects of COVID-19."


And here are some peer reviewed papers and other medical publications in support: Essential Documents | FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance

"Ivermectin is a well-known, FDA-approved anti-parasite drug that has been used successfully for more than four decades to treat onchocerciasis “river blindness” and other parasitic diseases. It is one of the safest drugs known. It is on the WHO’s list of essential medicines, has been given 3.7 billion times around the globe, and has won the Nobel prize for its global and historic impacts in eradicating endemic parasitic infections in many parts of the world. Our medical discovery of a rapidly growing published medical evidence base, demonstrating ivermectin’s unique and highly potent ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication and to suppress inflammation, prompted our team to use ivermectin for prevention and treatment in all stages of COVID-19. Ivermectin is not yet FDA-approved for the treatment of COVID-19, but on Jan 14, 2021, the NIH changed their recommendation for the use of ivermectin in COVID-19 from “against” to “neutral”.

A simple risk analysis would suggest that as one of the safest drugs known, cheap to administer, and widely available, ivermectin should have favored prominently in COVID treatments (and it did in other parts of the world with success just not the media lead west). The bottom line here is the use of ivermectin was and is suppressed and there are no good reasons for that, or for the science censorship going on. This is after all a worldwide pandemic and all efforts should have been made to get it under control.

Take off the blinders.

Miracle cure promoted by fox.

Heh.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Show me, other then letting folks talk about it, where Fox news 'promoted" it.
 

Altair

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Show me, other then letting folks talk about it, where Fox news 'promoted" it.

 
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