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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

mariomike

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Yeah it did.

Some positive news today,

The US House passes the COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act in effort to curb anti-Asian hate violence


 

Loachman

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So I got curious: Who, exactly, is committing these hate crimes...

There doesn't seem to be any solid information, although I've spent less than three hours looking, but it's not just Whitey and the situation is more complex as multiple races and religions need to be taken into account.

I'd really like to see some meaningful statistics showing who is responsible for attacking whom, by race and religion, and why.

Old information, which may or may not reflect today's conditions. Note, however, that black Americans constitute about 13% of the US population:


More up-to-date statistics that break down the groups committing these crimes are not easy to find. Ethnicity of attacker is seldom mentioned. One wonders why.

From


"When offender-related variables are compared, significant differences emerge in the race of offenders. Compared to hate crimes against African Americans, hate crimes against Asian Americans are more likely to be committed by non-White offenders (b = 3.60. exp.(b) = 36.72) than White offenders. Other offenders’ characteristics (i.e., sex and age) however, remain similar. Offenders of hate crimes against the two racial groups are likely to be male and young adults at ages of 18–34."


shows a graph that provides some useful numbers to put things in a bit more perspective:

"Asian-American-directed hate crimes increased in all but two among some of the largest U.S. cities

These crimes more than doubled from 2019 to 2020, increasing from 49 to 122."

The rate of increase may be troubling, but the actual number, given the combined populations of the cities cited, isn't more than a statistical blip.

Also:

"The analysis revealed a surge in cities such as New York, where anti-Asian hate crimes rose from three in 2019 to 28 in 2020, a 833 percent increase. Los Angeles and Boston also experienced notable rises, from seven to 15 and six to 14, respectively. Meanwhile, Washington, D.C., experienced a decline from six to three anti-Asian hate crimes. Chicago remained unchanged, with two crimes each year."

Again, huge percentage increase, but very small numerical increase.

And those are all Democrat-run cities, wherein I'd expect Evil Donald Trump to have rather less influence than in Republican-heavy areas.

But why the much-higher rate in New York? Is there a reason, and is it significant or just an anomaly given the small overall number?

One also wonders how referring to "the China/Chinese virus" can account for a rise in hate crimes targetting non-Chinese Asians. Even the redneckiest of rednecks can surely see a difference.

Some anecdotal tales:




 

PMedMoe

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One also wonders how referring to "the China/Chinese virus" can account for a rise in hate crimes targetting non-Chinese Asians. Even the redneckiest of rednecks can surely see a difference.

You're kidding, right?

From what I can see, the "redneckiest of rednecks" believe many (stupid) things:

Pizzagate,
The 2020 election was rigged,
Bill Gates is trying to control the world's population,
5G is BAD!!!
Reptilians/Lizard people,
The Hollywood "elite" harvesting children's blood for adrenochrome,
The worldwide cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles who rule the world,
The list goes on.

And you don't think people continuing to refer to COVID-19 as the China/Chinese/CCP virus or Wuhan flu doesn't (or didn't or won't) lead to racial profiling? Even unintentionally?
 

CBH99

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Hey now, say what you want. But Reptilians & Lizard People are very real. I dated one for a while. I’d come home and not remotely kidding, she’d be crawling on the ceiling yelling Latin at me 😕

Come to think of it, nevermind. Maybe she was just a b**ch.


Referring to the virus as the Wuhan/Chinese/CCP virus will probably, unfortunately, lead to the dumbest of our society feeling compelled to unleash the idiocy within them.

As for the redneckiest of them surely seeing a difference? I wouldn’t bet on it. Not even close. (Although as a reasonable & intelligent person, it’s hard to believe they can’t distinguish between different ethnicities under the Asian umbrella.)

If they are a dumb enough waste of molecules that they will spit on, yell at, harass, or physically assault someone of Asian background simply due to a virus originating in Asia — I don’t have high hopes they’ll be distinguishing between Thai, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc.

We must not underestimate just how boldly ignorant & daft some people are.
 

QV

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There are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum. There are also racists within both of those extremist positions.
 

Eaglelord17

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So why add fuel to the fire? Call it COVID.
Why call it the British, South African, or Brazilian variant then? Personally I don't use the China virus crap, but the other side of it is why do we not respond the same way to those variant names?
 

Loachman

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You're kidding, right?

Not at all.

Judging by the actual numbers of actual crimes, there is not a huge problem. "Rednecks" are not noted for being non-white either, yet the one article pointed out that more non-whites than whites, so perhaps it's the non-whites who are less able to distinguish.

But, barring more complete information showing up, we don't really know who is doing what to whom, or why.

From what I can see, the "redneckiest of rednecks" believe many (stupid) things:

The looney left believe "many (stupid) things", too, like the 2020 election was not rigged (I am following the forensic investigation currently underway in Arizona quite closely), and that Donald Trump was/is a Russian puppet, and Joe Biden is responsible for the current levels of vaccination and is doing a good job.

And you don't think people continuing to refer to COVID-19 as the China/Chinese/CCP virus or Wuhan flu doesn't (or didn't or won't) lead to racial profiling? Even unintentionally?

Given the apparent low numbers of actual attacks previously mentioned and the lack of information regarding perpetrators and motivations, I remain sceptical. Until there is a published list by name and race/ethnicity/mental capacity/political affiliation of each perpetrator combined with answers to one simple question - "why did you do it" - there remains no real supporting evidence.

Granted, I may have missed something.

I also note that the first time that I saw "CCP virus" was in Epoch Times, which was founded by Chinese dissident Falun Gong practitioners, early last year. They favour that term because they want the world to know who was responsible, and they still use it. As I like Chinese people but despise the Chinese Communist Party, I am quite happy to go along with them.
 

PMedMoe

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Why call it the British, South African, or Brazilian variant then? Personally I don't use the China virus crap, but the other side of it is why do we not respond the same way to those variant names?
We already had this discussion on the other COVID thread. Call them by their proper names:

B.1.1.7
B.1.351
P.1
 

PMedMoe

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The looney left believe "many (stupid) things", too,
I never said anything about right or left in my post.

I also note that the first time that I saw "CCP virus" was in Epoch Times, which was founded by Chinese dissident Falun Gong practitioners, early last year. They favour that term because they want the world to know who was responsible, and they still use it. As I like Chinese people but despise the Chinese Communist Party, I am quite happy to go along with them.

Oh, the Epoch Times. Yes, they're a bastion of journalistic integrity. :rolleyes:

"The Epoch Times has spread misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic in print and via social media including Facebook and YouTube. It has promoted anti-China rhetoric and conspiracy theories around the coronavirus outbreak, for example through an 8-page special edition called "How the Chinese Communist Party Endangered the World", which was distributed unsolicited in April 2020 to mail customers in areas of the United States, Canada, and Australia. In the newspaper, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is known as the "CCP virus", and a commentary in the newspaper posed the question, "is the novel coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan an accident occasioned by weaponizing the virus at that [Wuhan P4 virology] lab?" The paper's editorial board suggested that COVID-19 patients cure themselves by "condemning the CCP" and "maybe a miracle will happen"."

I suppose you believe everything they publish then.

Failed Fact Checks

 

mariomike

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The looney left believe "many (stupid) things", too, like the 2020 election was not rigged

This would probably before a better forum for discussion of the 2020 US election. Rather than a Covid thread,

64 pages.
Last post: 14 November, 2020.


 

Loachman

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I never said anything about right or left in my post.

I did not claim as such - but I've never seen "rednecks" linked to the left-hand side of the political spectrum.

Oh, the Epoch Times. Yes, they're a bastion of journalistic integrity. :rolleyes:

There is not one single source that I trust completely, which is why I trawl multiple sources from both left- and right-leaning sides and some that favour neither, including a lot of small and/or independent sources that have demonstrated pretty decent overall reliability and accuracy over several years. I look for consistency within each one and between them all.

Interestingly, a few of the left-leaning independents that I selected long ago specifically for their left-leaning perspectives have adopted more conservative outlooks over the past five years but none of the conservative-leaning ones have shifted leftward. It was an interesting evolution to watch in each case.

And I've culled a lot out over time as well, for underperformance.

"The Epoch Times has spread misinformation related to the COVID-19 pandemic in print and via social media including Facebook and YouTube. It has promoted anti-China rhetoric and conspiracy theories around the coronavirus outbreak, for example through an 8-page special edition called "How the Chinese Communist Party Endangered the World", which was distributed unsolicited in April 2020 to mail customers in areas of the United States, Canada, and Australia. In the newspaper, the SARS-CoV-2 virus is known as the "CCP virus", and a commentary in the newspaper posed the question, "is the novel coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan an accident occasioned by weaponizing the virus at that [Wuhan P4 virology] lab?" The paper's editorial board suggested that COVID-19 patients cure themselves by "condemning the CCP" and "maybe a miracle will happen"."

I suppose you believe everything they publish then.

Not at all. Why on earth would you suggest that? I'll even look for corroboration for something in a trusted source when I see something unusual or inconsistent or that does not make sense.

Do you believe everything published by any particular source?

I learned to question everything at a very young age. I have also forced myself to wade through blatant Soviet and other communist propaganda looking for useful information (generally non-existent) or other points of view/insights into the workings of other minds, at the expense of some actual headaches.

I have seen journalists get a lot wrong - sometimes innocently - when they write about subjects where I have a fair amount of knowledge and experience, so I presume that they make similar errors everywhere else. I have also noted major individual or corporate biases.

I am at least equally sceptical about "fact-checkers", who are also no more omniscient nor less biased than anybody else. Some have even "fact-checked" satirical articles, which amuses me greatly - although it's getting harder to distinguish satire from actual reality of late.

The failing dinosaur media, which, in Canada, are being propped up by Trudeau (and can therefore no longer claim to be "independent"), are failing because fewer and fewer people trust them. Almost everybody has a cellphone now and can post videos online within seconds, and often live, of events that traditional media will often either spin, misrepresent, or ignore if they do not fit their agendae.

On the other hand, even CNN is capable of some excellent reporting - outside of politics. They ran a fascinating (and long) story of a black man wrongfully convicted of murder, the efforts to free him over decades, the artwork that he learned to produce in jail and sent to a friend who kept it all safe, his eventual release and bright future as a result of his art, and his calm and wise philosophy. I should have kept a link, I suppose, as it was a very inspirational tale.

Traditional media have one underlying purpose, that drives everything that they do, and it's not to impartially and accurately inform the public about anything. Their prime purpose is to sell advertising. The old mottos, "if it bleeds, it leads", is true. Tragic, horrible, scary headlines generate sales. Sales attract more advertising. Corporations become richer, as do those at the top. Anything else is incidental.

Anyway, there is no law that states that the WHO can force anybody to use its preferred terminology, and so I shall continue to employ my preferred term and thereby give credit to the party that owns the lab wherein it was almost assuredly spawned and which exploited its eventual release to minimize damage and embarrassment to itself and maximize it to the rest of the world - including its own citizens, who are also innocent victims.
 

Loachman

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It took a while to find, as I could not remember the fellow's name and had to go through a lot of articles about wrongfully-convicted-but-eventually-freed black men - way more people than there should ever have been (one is too many), but here it is:


As much as I have come to despise CNN, they deserve credit for articles like that.




 

Altair

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Ontario did 190k vaccines on may 22nd.

That is out of the park amazing.

60 percent of those above the age of 12 have gotten a vaccine, also amazing.

I know I got heat for saying its not how you start, its how you finish, but I think if things continue at this rate we are going to have an amazing summer.
 

Good2Golf

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Altair, I too will acknowledge that aside from Ontario getting into a groove and exceeding their own target, the Feds have been assuring a solid supply of vaccines, more specifically Pfizer and Moderna. Not quite sure what’s going on with A-Z, but it will hopefully get sorted.
 

Weinie

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Altair, I too will acknowledge that aside from Ontario getting into a groove and exceeding their own target, the Feds have been assuring a solid supply of vaccines, more specifically Pfizer and Moderna. Not quite sure what’s going on with A-Z, but it will hopefully get sorted.
Altair,

I doubted your assertions that Canada would be able to get where we are as of now. My bad. We are close. My two eldest kids will be vaccinated in two weeks, there is still no campaign or approach for my two youngest kids. Until that time, I am still on the other side of the fence.
 
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