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CFAT scores qualify for Sig, Intelligence, tech trades, but not Infantry?

allista

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I would like to preface this by saying THE CAF DOES NOT OWE ME ANYTHING, and that despite the results I received, I would serve this country faithfully in any capacity provided I am given the opportunity.


So I did my CFAT today and was told I didn't make the cutoff for infantry yet several tech trades that most definitely required higher scores (it's not as if I know, but I'd assume so) were made available to me strangely enough.

I'm definitely aware of my math and spatial weaknesses but I was sure I'd score high enough on all categories to at least make the cutoff for infantry, though I asked around on Reddit and was told my scores may have been enough to qualify for infanteer, but not enough to be competitive on the CL or the PCL.

I've gotten rather vague answers regarding this and the recruiting officer who sat me down for a debrief was rather vague talking about all the benefits of intel, signals, etc trying to wave a chance to get a security clearance in front of me (he even mentioned "secret squirrel" jobs lmao). Wouldn't I be more than qualified for infantry if I received an offer for most tech trades and signal operator in addition to intel?

I'm rather confused and considering either requesting a rewrite or dropping my application entirely and trying again later when after a prolonged period of study and research, don't want to get shoehorned into a job I don't want. Is it possible that my results/the full list of jobs I qualified for are being withheld in favor of trying to shoehorn me into one of the more in-demand occupations? Could use some advice here fellas, thanks!
 
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allista, while I do not know your actual score, it is certainly possible to meet the minimum required score for Intelligence Operator, Signals Technician, and MP while not meeting the minimum for Infantry Soldier, regardless of the PCL. This is because the minimum requirements by trade are not simply based off of total score. While some trades do simply have a minimum total score (such as the majority of technician trades), others also have a minimum score specifically for Verbal Skills, Spatial Ability, Problem Solving, or a sum of 2 sections. As such, it is possible to have a high enough total CFAT score for Infantry Soldier, but fail to meet minimum score requirements if you score too low in a specific section.

One question I have...

loneprivate

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To your Q: "Is it possible that my results / the full list of jobs I qualified for are being withheld in favor of trying to shoehorn me into one of the more in-demand occupations?", the answer is NO.
Your CFAT is just too low for infantry and you have been lucky to have other choices. However, your file will be probaly not enough competitive to be selected and received an offer. Keep in mind, there are annually more than 20 000 applicants and only 5 000 will receive an offer. I invite you to start ASAP your CFAT preparation as they suggested you and once ready ask for your 2nd attempt.
 

da1root

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allista,

Let me explain the "PCL" - it's essentially a cut off line - so although your CFAT by itself may've qualified you for Infantry (and it very may have if you qualified for other tech type trades) but the PCL moves higher or lower based on the number of positions available and the number of applicants - the PCL can change year to year.

For example, if there are 1,000 positions (I don't think the CAF has ever given 5,000 Infantry offers in 1 year) and 10,000 applicants then there will be 1 PCL level - let's say PCL 60 for example. Those same 1,000 positions and 20,000 applicants, the PCL will be higher (say 80); the same 1,000 positions and 5,000 applicants the PCL will be lower (say 40).

The PCL allows CFRC to prioritize files; why process a file in a year with 20,000 applicants that is in the bottom 10,000? They're never going to get in - so a PCL is set so that only the top 3,000 to 5,000 applicants are processed. So if your PCL is 55 then you would only qualify for processing in one of those 3 situations, but if your PCL is 90 you could be processed no matter what.

This is in all trades, so while you were told you don't qualify for processing for Infantry, it might have a higher PCL than another occupation based solely on the number of applicants.

Also take into consideration that your score to be processed is a combination of your CFAT, TSD and Interview - so your score for Infantry could be lower than your score on another occupation. For example if I were to apply my score on Infantry would be lower than my score on Military Police as I would perform better in the interview for MP.

All this said, my expertise is NOT the hard arm occupations - and as always your CFRC has better information on your file than we ever will because they know what your scores are. If you don't understand why you're being offered other occupations and not infantry, ask them.
 

da1root

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As an aside allista, I've noted that you posted this exact same post twice on the board - in the future please do not make multiple posts that are the exact same.
 

allista

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To your Q: "Is it possible that my results / the full list of jobs I qualified for are being withheld in favor of trying to shoehorn me into one of the more in-demand occupations?", the answer is NO.
Your CFAT is just too low for infantry and you have been lucky to have other choices. However, your file will be probaly not enough competitive to be selected and received an offer. Keep in mind, there are annually more than 20 000 applicants and only 5 000 will receive an offer. I invite you to start ASAP your CFAT preparation as they suggested you and once ready ask for your 2nd attempt.
This appears to be the move at the moment, I studied my butt off and seem to have scored decently on the math and verbal portions utterly failed in the spatial portions of the test. I do agree this calls for a great deal of personal reflection and even more study. I thank you and everyone else on Army.Ca for their feedback and advice. Have an excellent day!
 

allista

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allista,

Let me explain the "PCL" - it's essentially a cut off line - so although your CFAT by itself may've qualified you for Infantry (and it very may have if you qualified for other tech type trades) but the PCL moves higher or lower based on the number of positions available and the number of applicants - the PCL can change year to year.

For example, if there are 1,000 positions (I don't think the CAF has ever given 5,000 Infantry offers in 1 year) and 10,000 applicants then there will be 1 PCL level - let's say PCL 60 for example. Those same 1,000 positions and 20,000 applicants, the PCL will be higher (say 80); the same 1,000 positions and 5,000 applicants the PCL will be lower (say 40).

The PCL allows CFRC to prioritize files; why process a file in a year with 20,000 applicants that is in the bottom 10,000? They're never going to get in - so a PCL is set so that only the top 3,000 to 5,000 applicants are processed. So if your PCL is 55 then you would only qualify for processing in one of those 3 situations, but if your PCL is 90 you could be processed no matter what.

This is in all trades, so while you were told you don't qualify for processing for Infantry, it might have a higher PCL than another occupation based solely on the number of applicants.

Also take into consideration that your score to be processed is a combination of your CFAT, TSD and Interview - so your score for Infantry could be lower than your score on another occupation. For example if I were to apply my score on Infantry would be lower than my score on Military Police as I would perform better in the interview for MP.

All this said, my expertise is NOT the hard arm occupations - and as always your CFRC has better information on your file than we ever will because they know what your scores are. If you don't understand why you're being offered other occupations and not infantry, ask them.
As I understand it despite being offered many tech trades and very aggressively being pushed towards an intelligence contract, my CFAT just may not be competitive to even get past the PCL, let alone the CL with the scores I got. Sad to hear honestly but I'm hoping that many more long hours of study can try to help remedy this. I thank you for this writeup and hope to one day make the cut to join the wonderful men and women that make up the CF.
 

allista

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To your Q: "Is it possible that my results / the full list of jobs I qualified for are being withheld in favor of trying to shoehorn me into one of the more in-demand occupations?", the answer is NO.
Your CFAT is just too low for infantry and you have been lucky to have other choices. However, your file will be probaly not enough competitive to be selected and received an offer. Keep in mind, there are annually more than 20 000 applicants and only 5 000 will receive an offer. I invite you to start ASAP your CFAT preparation as they suggested you and once ready ask for your 2nd attempt.
Update: I recently received an email that basically revised my list of available trades, turns out I also qualified for Military Police. Are the standards for the infantry trade really so high that they even beat out MPs to the point where I couldn't even get infantry listed as available? Something feels wrong even taking into account the way the PCL works.
 
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cyber_lass

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Update: I recently received an email that basically revised my list of available trades, turns out I also qualified for Military Police. Are the standards for the infantry trade really so high that they even beat out MPs to the point where I couldn't even get infantry listed as available? Something feels wrong even taking into account the way the PCL works.
You can have a high score and still not be competitive in comparison to other candidates. If everyone scores high or there is already so many in x trade, then you will need to score that much higher to be competitive. And my understanding is that infantry is one of the most popular trades, if not the most popular trade. So It might not be a "thinking" based trade (needing a high CFAT in comparison to say tech trades), but if there is huge amount of people who want the same trade, well that would bump up the score needed to be competitive.
 

KevinB

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Update: I recently received an email that basically revised my list of available trades, turns out I also qualified for Military Police. Are the standards for the infantry trade really so high that they even beat out MPs to the point where I couldn't even get infantry listed as available? Something feels wrong even taking into account the way the PCL works.
Take it from someone who was an Infanteer - it seems a lot cooler when you are young, and it is a young mans game.
Tech trades will provide a much better standard of life in your later years.
Signals and Int also can springboard into some more interesting options as well.
 

allista

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You can have a high score and still not be competitive in comparison to other candidates. If everyone scores high or there is already so many in x trade, then you will need to score that much higher to be competitive. And my understanding is that infantry is one of the most popular trades, if not the most popular trade. So It might not be a "thinking" based trade (needing a high CFAT in comparison to say tech trades), but if there is huge amount of people who want the same trade, well that would bump up the score needed to be competitive.
So hypothetically if my score was good enough to qualify for infantry but not good/competitive enough to get me onto the CL barring me from being processed for it, it doesn't necessarily mean I scored poorly just that it's a super competitive trade to get in, but theoretically, once I'm actually enrolled in the CF could I just make a switch to the infantry internally if given the chance? (I am aware this is trade-dependent)

Can one assume that getting into a trade would be a different process for off-the-street applicants as opposed to somebody who's already enrolled in the CF? Does the PCL factor in even when enrolled and requesting an OT/VOT or is it only applied to off-the-street applicants?
 
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allista

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Take it from someone who was an Infanteer - it seems a lot cooler when you are young, and it is a young mans game.
Tech trades will provide a much better standard of life in your later years.
Signals and Int also can springboard into some more interesting options as well.
As much as I want to agree with you, there's something about simply being I couldn't hack it that irritates me to no end, to a point where it's not even that I'm mad about not getting infantry, I just want to know if my scores were good in general.

If I'm being honest I could probably live with not being offered a combat arms trade if it was due to something like the PCL (which is variable of course) barring me from it as opposed to me not scoring high enough on the CFAT.
 
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FormerHorseGuard

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They are recruiting, the military fills the needs of the military using the recruiting pool that comes along. They fill the needs of the army of tomorrow with bodies that come along today. Maybe they do not need infantry troops right now or need them tomorrow but need bodies in the trades they offered you. Just because you want to be infantry, does not mean you are going to be one if they need and think you will fit else where better for their needs not yours
 

cyber_lass

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So hypothetically if my score was good enough to qualify for infantry but not good/competitive enough to get me onto the CL barring me from being processed for it, it doesn't necessarily mean I scored poorly just that it's a super competitive trade to get in, but theoretically, once I'm actually enrolled in the CF could I just make a switch to the infantry internally if given the chance? (I am aware this is trade-dependent)
Your CFAT still plays a part if you want to transfer. So no, don't believe it is just as easy as "switching".
Can one assume that getting into a trade would be a different process for off-the-street applicants as opposed to somebody who's already enrolled in the CF? Does the PCL factor in even when enrolled and requesting an OT/VOT or is it only applied to off-the-street applicants?
I am not sure of the particulars for remustering. But I think what you are getting at; is it easier. No, not that I have heard. And your CFAT still matters. Not only that, as I was told, you could wait in your trade currently because they could be short staffed. So they may not even let you leave (so I would think 2x whether it is worth taking something, then hoping to remuster). And you have to be a competitive candidate to move into your new trade. I have heard it taking longer than an off the street candidate. Why, no idea, ask someone who has gone through it or works on these files.
 

allista

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Your CFAT still plays a part if you want to transfer. So no, don't believe it is just as easy as "switching".

I am not sure of the particulars for remustering. But I think what you are getting at; is it easier. No, not that I have heard. And your CFAT still matters. Not only that, as I was told, you could wait in your trade currently because they could be short staffed. So they may not even let you leave (so I would think 2x whether it is worth taking something, then hoping to remuster). And you have to be a competitive candidate to move into your new trade. I have heard it taking longer than an off the street candidate. Why, no idea, ask someone who has gone through it or works on these files.
Thanks again for breaking this down for me, I'll try and take all of this into consideration when I head down to CFRC in a few days.
 

loneprivate

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So hypothetically if my score was good enough to qualify for infantry but not good/competitive enough to get me onto the CL barring me from being processed for it, it doesn't necessarily mean I scored poorly just that it's a super competitive trade to get in, but theoretically, once I'm actually enrolled in the CF could I just make a switch to the infantry internally if given the chance? (I am aware this is trade-dependent)

Can one assume that getting into a trade would be a different process for off-the-street applicants as opposed to somebody who's already enrolled in the CF? Does the PCL factor in even when enrolled and requesting an OT/VOT or is it only applied to off-the-street applicants?
PCL is only apllied for off-the-street applicants. In fact it,s for their management expectations. There is no PCL for OT/VOT for CAF applicants. Boards selection use the PSO score and selected applicant are selected from a Top Down scores amd the SIP give the cut-off line.
 

allista

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PCL is only apllied for off-the-street applicants. In fact it,s for their management expectations. There is no PCL for OT/VOT for CAF applicants. Boards selection use the PSO score and selected applicant are selected from a Top Down scores amd the SIP give the cut-off line.
Thanks, I'm happy to be processed as a signaller, but if the opportunity arises I'd definitely try and switch to infantry through a VOT-U, I will take all the information I have been provided into consideration
 

loneprivate

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Thanks, I'm happy to be processed as a signaller, but if the opportunity arises I'd definitely try and switch to infantry through a VOT-U, I will take all the information I have been provided into consideration
Keep in mind, once OFP/qualified in your occupation you,re ineligible for VOT-U for 3 years from date OFP.
 
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