Chaplain ( Merged )

[FriarVic]

I recieved this comment on another post:

some padres feel it‘s too militaristic to wear a Regimental cap badge (hmmm ... a military padre who doesn‘t want to be perceived as too militaristic ... hmmm ...)

It raises a question that I struggle with, and would appreciete some input.

THe question is "How military do the soldiers want their Padre‘s?"

It appears that those commanding would like to tuck away the padre into a nice safe place, lest God forbid, they acutally have to be where they could do some good.

I do not have aspirations of becoming Rambo the warrior preist/navy seal/jtf2 sniper (Ok maybe a little) But there has to be a better place for me than in the rear.

Thoughts?

 

[Infanteer]

I always liked the idea of the Padre from Starship Troopers, giving the soldiers a prayer before dropping into combat with them....

Anyways, I will admit that I am less knowledgeable about the daily duties of a Padre. I would like to see the role of the Padre expanded to be something of a morale officer. Not only handling the spiritual needs of the soldiers, but dealing with other welfare needs as well. Someone had the good idea of putting the Padre in charge of helping soldiers with their leave arrangements and stuff overseas. Why not? Gives him something to do and gets rid of the flakes from PSP who collect big bucks and don‘t do much.

We have a social worker officer MOC code, why does a Padre not handle that form of welfare? I may be reaching here, but I‘m just trying to maximize efficency by putting the Padre in charge of troops welfare.

 

[Armymedic]

Let me jump in...
We should have regimental padres, and no, they should not wear regimental capbadges, just like all the support trades. First line support is where the padre should be.

Just to clear up Social workers. While to the layman the two may seem to do the same thing, and the paths they follow are close, the type of counselling/help they provide can be very diffrent. Padre‘s would, for example, help better with family issues such as death, illnes, etc, where matters of faith assist in resolution of the crisis. Social Worker Officers (SWO) are a second line assest in the health services. SWO are better trained in issues of low self esteem (pre/post suicide, post divorce), family strife, alcohol abuse where prolonged counselling with subsequent psychatic consults may be required. Just to skim the surface for both.

To answer the initial post...
military enough to survive (as a non combatant, as per the Geneva Conventions) on a high intesity battlefield with out needing last rites himself, cause if they can survive there...

 

[MJP]

Not only handling the spiritual needs of the soldiers, but dealing with other welfare needs as well.

I don‘t know how other units (Reg) use their padres, but ours is exactly what you described. He is pretty much the unit welfare officer. He‘s the one we send soldiers too when they need compassionate leave and he interviews all members(especially married ones) before they leave on any sort of overseas operation. He also acts as the frontline contact for the social workers, weeding out the ones that need only a liitle help/intervention. I like it allot better as it keeps things low-level and in-house.

The flip side of it is they tend to err on the side of caution and extend compassionate leave(or grant it) under very dubious circumstances. Or they lean towards lenincy when a member has gotten himself in major hot water. I‘ve seen members give a huge sob story to the padre that effectivly led to the member getting off scot free.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

We just sent our units padre to Afghanistan. Shes was actually just written up in the Maple Leaf.
http://www.army.dnd.ca/25Service_Battalion/images/overseas/709-07.pdf

if you go to the site www.25service.ca you can check out the letters she send back talking about what she does in Afghanistan.

Just thought you might like this read

 

[rcrman]

Thank God for the Padres ! They are much needed in the military and look out for the troops. The are a key figure when deploying overseas and ou can talk open and frank with them, no matter what rank you may be, they in fact are an asset that are there for your well being, spiritually and mentally.

God bless them all !

 

[FriarVic]

Here‘s the tossup:

Put the padre with hq or let him out on patrol. I think it is a legitimate command struggle.

On one hand, it‘s pretty hard to have any kind of ministry to those who are cold wet and miserable, by greeting them as they return from a patrol in your dry vehicle with a cup of coffee in your hand.

On the other hand, there are those who see you as an asset that should not be placed in the feild as you can‘t be replaced at the drop of a hat, and are needed.

I know where I would rather be, (understanding of course that you cannot be a liability to a mission). I have an idea where the CO might want me to be.

The Question is:
Where do the trooper‘s want me to be?

 

[Exvitae]

Before I post, one caveat: I am not an active member of the CF but am currently in the recruiting process to be an armoured soldier and I am speaking from a Catholic background but will try my best to be ecumenical.

I expect any minister to be able to assist me in furthering my relationship with God and those around me. If that‘s in a foxhole while on exercise in the middle of winter somewhere in Alberta or over a cup of coffee in the jr. ranks mess then so be it.

We all have parameters to work within and if yours limit you to being here or there as opposed to there or here then I can accept that and will seek you out when I am in need of spiritual advice or am having a time when I need your assistance.

I‘d like to think that a padre would be available to me at all times wether on patrol or at base if I were ever deployed somewhere truly hostile.

I liked the Padre in Band of Brothers... I think he‘s only shown in three scenes but I was impressed nonetheless.

I guess combat theology isn‘t covered in the seminary!

mm

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

We generally want you to be accessible and easy to find, when we need you. Padres don‘t have to be everywhere always for everyone. But a friendly hello while passing in the hallways in the headshed or while doing det maintanance in the compound are just as good as greeting them on return from a patrol. I never think of the Padre till I need him. But it‘s comforting to know that if he‘s switched on you can pop your head in any time, be it his office in Garrison or at C/S 8 while in the field.

 

[Danjanou]

Caveat or not, I think you nailed it there Exvitae.

It‘s tough call where to be Father, sometimes being in the trenches is needed, somtimes we find it easier to come to you in the nice warm tent, just make sure there‘s an extra hot cup of coffee.

Personally I‘m not overtly religious and was probably less so in years past when I wore a uniform, however I never felt that a Padre was not an essential part of a unit, in fact the exact opposite. That is probably more so now with the increased pace of operations and deployments we‘ve seen.

I‘ve sent more than one soldier for counselling and he or she has come back having received what they needed, and enabled to get on with the job. Yeah sure some may abuse that as noted, but those are the same troops that would probably do the same with a Medical chit.

When I went through a bad patch myself many years pago, the Padre was there, not intrusive but letting me know if I wanted to talk, he was available. I eventually took him up on the offer.

I‘ve seen more than my share of poor religious leaders either in person or in the media, which may explain my cynical attitudes at times, however none have been military Padres I‘m proud to say.

Even had the pleasure of teaching a section of them on the old Block 3S in Aldershot in 1987.

Your approach to the questions here on the board validates my points FriarVic. Not intrusive, polite and attempting to understand the rather unique needs of your flock .

 

[Bert]

While in St. Jean on BMQ, I was able to see Padres in action.

BMQ is not a tough course by military standards. The average recruit going through the 10 week program would find it to be a bit of a shock. Some more than others as an example.

In the Mega, the Padre would patrol around and talk to the recruits and the staff. You‘d find him during the fitness test, the 13 km march, around the corner, in the mess eating with different platoons, always visible, accessible, and eventually meet with everyone at one point or another.

Even if you never needed the kindness of the Padre, it was comforting to know he/she was there,
visible, and accessible. For a couple people in my platoon, it meant alot.

 

[chk2fung]

Was Padre James at the Mega when you were on BMQ Bert? She was great, she would go on 5:00am runs with my platoon. She was always super nice when you had to see her. Padres without a doubt are very vital to the Forces. You would be surprised how often people seek the Padre.

 

[Bert]

I never knew the name but there was a Padre by your very description who gave me a gummy bear during the 13 km march. Another was Padre Lucien
if my spelling is correct who helped a member of my platoon go home for a weekend when his father was very sick. He was there providing encouragement during the fitness test in the pool.
Always sat with a different platoon during lunch and supper talking with the recruits.

 

[1feral1]

Knew a MAJ Padre from Saskatchewan. Basil Chomos is is name. The most approachable man I ever met. Popular with the troops, and a very warm and caring bloke, who had a natural calmness about him, yet to look at him you‘d never in a 1000 yrs think he was an RC Padre.

Back in Aug 95, he was thru Australia, and stayed a few days at my place. It was sure good to catch up with him.

Hey Basil, if you read this, ‘good on ya‘.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Spr.Earl]

Originally posted by FriarVic:
[qb] I recieved this comment on another post:

some padres feel it‘s too militaristic to wear a Regimental cap badge (hmmm ... a military padre who doesn‘t want to be perceived as too militaristic ... hmmm ...)

It raises a question that I struggle with, and would appreciete some input.

THe question is "How military do the soldiers want their Padre‘s?"

It appears that those commanding would like to tuck away the padre into a nice safe place, lest God forbid, they acutally have to be where they could do some good.

I do not have aspirations of becoming Rambo the warrior preist/navy seal/jtf2 sniper (Ok maybe a little) But there has to be a better place for me than in the rear.

Thoughts? [/qb]

Friar,my experience in the Engineers when the Padre comes on site we ask him would he like to have ago at what ever we are doing whether its on the Demo Range,Rifle Range,building a bridge etc.The more you know about our job the easier it is for you to relate to us when we need help or just someone to talk to.

As for the C.O. he has no choice if you want to go on Exercise,its your job to go out and see everyone and if allowed to have some hands on fun if there is time.Its yor flock so to speak.


In 1 CER we had Padre Muller(sp),he was born and grew up in the States and came North and ended up joining the CF.
He played sports,went on Exercise and took part on bridge builds etc.He was loved by all because he took the time to get to know the Engineer trade and those who executed it.

We went to Minnesota for U.N. work up training (95)and he was not allowed to go with us,about 7/8 days later who turns up?Padre Muller,he scamed a flight to Winnipeg and then rented a car and drove down to come and see us and traveled all over meeting all of us on the job

As for wearing the Badge of the Unit your with I say go for it,I for one would be impressed with it because to me it states this is our Sky Pilot.

Hope this helps.

 

[bossi]

My first padre handed down this nugget to us: "There are no aethists in foxholes."

And, who could forget the immortal "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition"?

Not that it‘s my area of expertise, but doesn‘t a shepherd usually go with his flock ... ?

Having said that, one must temper discretion with "valour" - going on patrol would help a padre better understand his flock, however ... a padre is unarmed, except for faith
(... unless he or she just happens to pick up a lead-projectile-emitting "flashlight" and use it as a "noise-maker" to scare the bad guys away instead of hurting them ... chuckle - there‘s a famous story of a padre during the Second World War who helped capture a large group of German soldiers - he picked up an unloaded weapon and turned up his collar so they couldn‘t see his collar dogs ... and when one German officer realised what was up and started to protest the infantry corporal laid him out with a butt stroke ... "pour encourager les autres" ...)

Bottom line: It‘s just like hockey - normally the goalie (and the padre) has to stay home - playing your position, and playing it well, otherwise you let others down - it‘s all part of being a winning team.

P.S. (I just realised I‘m being a little hypocritical - mea culpa - I can‘t say too much, but yes - I‘ve been guilty of taking the padre on patrol ... but I guess the Lord sometimes smiles on fools and drunk Irishmen, eh?)

 

[Exvitae]

I knew a Father Lucien in Winnipeg who had been a Padre in the CF. He was working for the Archdiocese back in 1999 so maybe it wasn‘t the same guy... he was very proud of his time as a Padre and had photos all over his office and memorbilia throughout the rectory.

 

[Pugnacious]

Greetings!
Are Canadian Army Chaplains expected, and trained to fight along side the other troops?

Are they armed and in the field of combat also?

How is the ethics of  taking life (or potental of) handled by their group?

This is all I found so far with no answers to these questions:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=305

Cheers!
P.

 

[spenco]

Hi, I thought that Chaplains weren't allowed to carry weapons at all, can anyone confirm this?

 

[dutchie]

To my knowlege, they are not authourized to use force. I know of instances in WW2 where they did, but that was then, and this is now.

In todays secular world (and Army), they seem to have become unit psychologists/cousellors. They also interview troops prior to deployment to ensure they are ready (their home life, etc), as well as when they return from tour.

Last summer while firefighting in BC, we had a padre come into our section, and he fire was like a walking, talking morale booster.....not to mention one of the most enthusiastic firefighters there.

I see no conflict with their role, they are there to preserve and help improve life, as well as provide religious guidance to those who want it. They don't take life, so no conflict.
They are a valuble asset in my view.