Close Quarter Combat (CQC) [Merged]

[onecat]

I had a few questions about base life. Does the CF have any martial arts programs open to all member on the base? Or is this something that is only open to combat arms memebres, and is there a cost go attending. Do they offer any training like they have in the Israeli army.

On a related note, does basic have any hand to hand training or do they wait until your QL3‘s to affer them. I think martial arts is a great way to stay in shape and any training does help if there ever was a major conflict involving Canadian troops.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Some bases may have martial arts programs sponsored through the Personnel Services Program (PSP) at the base gymnasium. Normally these will not be free programs. Other bases may have a martial arts club set up by and run by service members, this also would have some sort of membership fees to join.

I believe (and no doubt someone will correct me if I‘m wrong) that the Basic Infantry Course is the only course that includes an introduction to unarmed combat and bayonet fighting as formal training objectives. This is very basic skills training and not continued on later courses.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think taekwondo is the CF reckognized martial arts is it not? Like for compititions and what not. I know RMC is into it quite a bit.

Now and then for PT your unit might have a class of hand to hand combat but their pretty ineffective in my opinion. Martrial arts is like drill. You have to do it over and over until it becomes muscle memory. If you teach someone "hand to hand combat" for two 40 minute classes i rekon they will be more of a danger to themselves then whom ever their fighting.

You can take a hand to hand combat instructor coure though. Which is basically YOU teaching two 40 minute classes of hand to hand combat to soldiers who will forget it in 2 days

 

[Pikache]

I don‘t know about Reg basic infantry training, but there was no hand to hand or formal bayonet fighting classes in Res infantry course.

 

[John Nayduk]

R.M.C. has a Judo club. I took my black belt test with a member of that club and from what I’ve heard they are a very good.

 

[herbie]

Wether or not a bases PSP supports martial arts is dependent on the individual base. Pet does not support, whereas Valcartier does in a big way. The CF unarmed cmbt is pretty ineffective. Many units have developed their on programs. 5RALC has made a system based on karate but i dont know how tactically feasible it is considering it was developed by just one individual as apposed to using the experience and input from a large group of SME‘s. ( its also based on a sport )
Although martial arts are good exersise, remember that they are sports and not designed to be used wearing fighting order and ankle deep in mud. Maybe someday the CF will realize that hand to hand is a nessesary and interagal part of our job. Especially when restrained by UN rules of engagement.

 

[riddleofsteel]

I have read a number of articles recently that touch on this subject, albiet not involving the Canadian Forces. The brass hats in the CF sure could take a few pointers from the Americans and the Israelis on this issue. Some food for thought: approximately 80% of the world‘s population lives in some form of built up area (ranging from tiny hamlets to bustling cities). Hand to hand and FIBUA training is becoming increasingly relevant (not that it wasn‘t relevant in the first place), even vital, in the reality of the current times.

The 82nd Airborne Division has been implementing a large Brazilian Jiu Jitsu program, including tournaments that are increasing in both size and level of skill. It is proving to be a great confidence booster as well as a tool for developing aggression and fighting spirit.

In South Korea, the US Army‘s Second Infantry Division is developing a system of Taekwondo training (with largely the same purpose as the 82nd‘s use of BJJ) that also has the added benefit of increasing the ties between the US forces in the area and the military of South Korea.

If you look to the past, there are also some great examples of hand to hand combat expertise. For example, the techniques developed by Colonels Rex Applegate and William Fairbairn. The Marine Raiders also developed some very effective hand to hand techniques that are not only effective generally, but are ideally suited for combat while wearing full combat kit; these systems are not derived from sports. These techniques are being kept alive through some pretty dedicated folks. A link that may be of interest is the Gung Ho Chuan Association‘s page

A lot of Israeli (ie: Krav Maga - sites of interest include kravmaga.com hisardut.com hssinternational.com kapap.net ) and Russian instructors (by and large claiming to be former Spetznaz, some are supposed to be the real mccoy) are also offering a lot of training programs intended for military/spec ops.

A lot of reading material on the subject can be found at Paladin Press.

With such a plethora of choices - and that is just the tip of the iceberg - why on earth is there a lack of effective hand to hand/bayonet/knife/stick/improvised weapon training?

 

[Pikache]

I know at least two people in my regiment who are CF hand to hand combat instructor qualified. But as to what style they do, I have no idea...

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

Does the canadian forces teach any hand to hand combat and if so what style is it? Is it effective? any pictures of us training in H to H combat. and how does our Hand to Hand Combat compare to other countries.

 

[D-n-A]

The Army does have a hand to hand combat course, to take it, you must be either a Infanteer, or a MP.

 

[pte anthony]

If you want to try some nice close combat hand to hand techniques look for the martial art, wing chun, Bruce Lee practiced it because he was near sighted most techniques in this art put you within half a arms length of the opponent and it is where the exercise sticky hands originates. :soldier:

 

[gi jew]

there is some un-armed hand combat training done as an infanteer. mostly with your bayonet.

if you want to learn i would agree with monger go learn a martial art it will help you greatly.

 

[D-n-A]

if your using a bayonet, that isnt really un-armed combat..


another good martial art is Tae-Kwon Do, this was also taught to Rangers during the Vietnam War

 

[gate_guard]

In my opinion, for combat effectiveness, taekwondo (and other forms of sport fighting) is completely useless. Your better off taking krav maga or a grappling art.
Don‘t forget guys, if your in a situation where your resorting to hand to hand combat, it‘s do or die and you‘ve most likely ran out of ammo and/or lost use of your rifle. You‘re not going to have time to take off your kit to get comfortable and start pulling off roundhouse kicks. I remember practicing takedowns with lbv, plates, and a flak vest on. I‘d pay to see anyone pull off a jump kick with all that **** on. I‘ve gotten myself into enough scrapes to know that fighting eventually ends up in a big grappling match.

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

I know thier is a Unarmed combat course that Infanteers can take, But what type of Hand to Hand is it, cant be just Bayonet crap. I was thinking more on the lines of Grapples, take downs, Pressure Points etc.

 

[Infanteer]

I‘ve broken up enough of Gate Guards scrapes to know that he is right.

I would argue that it is not technique, but sheer aggression that rules the day. Anyways, if your moving to hand-to-hand combat, you‘re probably already dead.

 

[wongskc]

Take a look at ninjitsu (sp?) for hand to hand combat. That one is definately not for sport fighting. In my short time taking lessons, I was taught very little that would actually leave the other guy breathing afterwards. And all the moves were designed to end the fight within a handful of moves.

 

[Yeoman]

I‘ve got my hand to hand qualification. going through to get my knfie to hand, hand to knife, knife to knife qualification soon. it‘s really good stuff to know, but I‘ve yet to see any actual use to any of the stuff I‘ve been taught as of yet.
Greg

 

[Infanteer]

going through to get my knfie to hand, hand to knife, knife to knife qualification soon.

Are you sure these qualifications exist in the CF.

As far as I know, hand-to-hand isn‘t a qualification. Only the Unarmed Combat Instructors course was a qualification that let you instruct various techniques to soldiers.

Can anyone verify this (preferably a Unarmed Combat Qualified NCO?)

 

[Pikache]

In 31 CBG, some guy ran a knife fighting course. I don‘t think it counts for any military qualifications though...

CF does have a hand to hand combat program of its own style. It‘s kinda combination of many martial arts, but I don‘t like their style of instructing. Too much like drill practice for much practical use.

Uh, Bruce Lee did many martial arts, but he made up his own called jeet kune do. Good stuff.

TKD and karate and etc has its own strengths, but you have to go to a really good school for it. (I took TKD for about 3 years)

In battlefield, if you have to use hand to hand combat, you‘re probably very screwed anyways.

But if you‘re looking for something for self defence against some thugs or whatnot, IMO any martial art can give you the basics to defend yourself against an untrained opponent on one on one situations. If you‘re looking for something more serious, go for something like jeet kune do, which covers 3 fundamentals of fighting, long range (kicks and punches) clich (close range and take downs) and ground (greco roman wrestling stuff).

Deficiency in any of those areas and if you go up against an opponent who knows what he‘s doing, you‘re screwed.

Maximum speed and aggression is always the key.